Oh oh that looks expensive

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

I recently moved the boat off her swinging mooring and onto a pontoon ready for lift out early January. I’ve got some charging issues which an auto electrician has been trying to sort for

me, I won’t go into that as it’s not the subject of this post. While hanging upside down in the engine bay looking at something else I was horrified to see the cast iron casing has sheered  clean through on  the rear port engine mount.  It’s a new break given the cleanliness of the exposed metal. When I was slipping the mooring I did make a schoolboy error and fouled the mooring

line wrapping it round the prop and stalling the engine. Apart from running the engine up once I had cleared the fouled line I have not run it. So here’s the question, I’m going to assume it’s engine out but once it’s out can it be welded (shipwrights in the marina) or is

jt something far more scary 

[Alan de Enfield]

Is this a GRP yacht with a very small engine hole ?

 

It really will depend on the engine type / installation and space to work. On Narowboats there is enough room to lift the engine enough to remove and replace the engine mounting.

 

Pictures ?

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

She is not a canal boat, she’s a 24 ft motorsailer with a BMC captain 1500 engine. I realise I’m a foreigner being a sea going boat but I’ve found lots of useful info on this forum before so

its my go to place when I hit trouble. 
it’s not the actual mount that’s sheered, it’s the cast iron  casing to which the mount is bolted that’s gone

If it was a car I guess it would

be the bell housing 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

We like photos here. Without pictures of the break and the engine hole it's impossible to say.

[magnetman]

I had an engine bracket failure on a Perkins engine which managed to crack the cast iron crankcase. I soldd the engine as scrap although it was technically repairable. 

 

Sounds a bit nasty but as said pictures help here. 

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Hi both Jen in wellies and Manetman,

iyes I realised pictures woulhave

been helpful but since discovering the break, I put the engine cover back

on and came below. It’s too cold and dark out there right now to venture into the cockpit  so I will take a few in the morning to illustrate the problem. 

[magnetman]

What gearbox have you got on there? 

 

Very wise to go below as it is a bit chilly. I have an hour in the open launch (Thames not salty) to get back to the Boat this evening. Not ideal conditions! 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Oh dear, this sounds like an ear;y version of the 1.5 that used "inverted top hat" engine mounts. Unless you are very lucky, I think you will have difficulty finding a replacement that would probably be second hand.

 

I suspect the more modern cast aluminium one will fit, but the rear mounts are totally different, but I am sure they can be fitted with brackets as adaptors. However, they may need the flat automotive engine backplate rather than the dished on I think the marinisers used. I am not sure about that.

 

I don't know f our flywheel housing can be welded, but I am sure taking the engine out may be easier than trying to get the gearbox etc. off in the boat.

 

Good luck

 

PS - Talk to Chertsey Meads marina, they seemed to do second-hand at one time, or Calcutt Boats.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Tony Brooks

[ditchcrawler]

[Tony Brooks]

Thanks, Alan, but that one is cast aluminium (the modern one) . I am fairly sure that the OP's is the old cast iron type of different design.

 

This looks like the type I think it is:

 

 

but this one looks more like fabricated steel, and as I nicked if off the Norfolk Broads site it may have been locally fabricated but the mariniser..

Edited November 17, 2024 by Tony Brooks

[magnetman]

The OP called it a BMC Captain. I think this might have been a specific marinised 1.5D unit by a certain company. Possibly Newage? 

 

I think there were others like the Commodore, Commander and the Vedette (petrol). 

 

How did these names turn up? 

 

One of my Boats has a pair of BMC 1.5D units but I think they are ex vehicle engines and they have PRM Delta hydraulic gearboxes. In my mind the mounting brackets are fabricated not cast. 

 

 

 

 

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Thanks guys

im

pretty sure it’s cast iron buti will

nwed to take  closer look as I’ve always thought it was. It’s been painted with blues  hammerite so i will have to scratch it Off to check, my engine looks

more like the one in Tony's picture and although the one shown is viewed from the starboard side, the part that has broken on mine is on the port side. But looking at the yellow line drawn on the picture the break in mine is exactly where that line ends on the engine mounting leg ooc

the right angles piece If that makes sense

I believe I have a Borg Warner velvet drive bolted onto the back of it as well 

I also  known the owners of Chertsey Mead marine personally but getting either of them to answer the phone is a xxxxx nightmare lol

[jacko264]

Sometimes cast can be weld with mig welder 

and you may be lucky .

or  at a pinch  fabricate  a mount and bolt it to the other part

[Tony Brooks]

50 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One of my Boats has a pair of BMC 1.5D units but I think they are ex vehicle engines and they have PRM Delta hydraulic gearboxes. In my mind the mounting brackets are fabricated not cast. 

 

 

There were so many marinisers about in the BMC's heyday I don't think one can be sure exactly what an individual engine has, so it is best to wait for conformation.

 

Yes, Newage were the official BMC mariniser and I think Tempest took over from them.

 

Very, very early 1.5s had a 2 bolt starter motor and back in the early 70s parts around the backplate & flywheel housing were unobtainable, although the mounts looked like the slightly later ones.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Tony Brooks

[Slim]

2 hours ago, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

She is not a canal boat, she’s a 24 ft motorsailer with a BMC captain 1500 engine. I realise I’m a foreigner being a sea going boat but I’ve found lots of useful info on this forum before so

its my go to place when I hit trouble. 
it’s not the actual mount that’s sheered, it’s the cast iron  casing to which the mount is bolted that’s gone

If it was a car I guess it would

be the bell housing 

When I had a Cobra 850 (it's a sloop rigged yacht) with a BMC 1500 I had to remove the engine. Access was under the companion way steps. Very tricky to  remove but once the engine mounting were undone I was able to slide a plank (greased) under the sump and pull it forward into the cabin then lifted it out using a couple of blocks slung from the boom. (I backed up the topping lift with the main halyard). Getting it off the boat onto the pontoon was 'interesting'. After a full rebuild it went back the same way. 

Good luck.😃

[BEngo]

If it is cast iron it can be welded, but doing so is a specialist art.  Look up Slinden- they should be able to do the job.

 

Otherwise you could have it bronze welded. ( aka brazed).  That is easier.  A Google for bronze welding shoild find someone near you/your boat.

 

N

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

After a reasonable nights sleep dreaming of nuts, bolts, wagers and gaskets I am heartened by the views that it could  be welded. Removing the engine is not something I had planned for this winter and if I could have known the it I most defo would. It’s also not a job I can afford to have a professional do so it will be roll up the sleeves and have a go. I think it’s just within my capabilities and I’m nit too scared, just record how it all comes apart, mark the shaft to aid reinstalling it, store stuff so you don’t lose it and come back to this forum every five minutes to cry for help. Once out I should be able to do a number of jobs on it that I simply can’t get at with it in situ, replace both water pumps, new lift pump, find a small

oil leak, I can even retrieve my favourite screw driver from the bilges. Just having breakfast then I will take a couple of picture and post them for comment. Oh the joys of boat ownership

[Tony Brooks]

Unlike a steel narrowboat it would probably be unwise to put a scissor jack between the back of the sump and the hull to lift the back of the engine, but if you have sufficient access and can rig something to raise the back of the engine you could try taking the gearbox, any adaptor plate off, then the flywheel and the broken piece. with the engine in place. It all depends on access and how the back of the engine can be lifted and supported while the job is done - which could be days if it is to be specialist welded.

Edited November 18, 2024 by Tony Brooks

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Hi Tony, the one thing we lack in bucket loads is space, I will post some pics but I doubt I have enough access to do as you suggest, just finishing breakfast then I’ll lift the engine covers 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

Hi Tony, the one thing we lack in bucket loads is space, I will post some pics but I doubt I have enough access to do as you suggest, just finishing breakfast then I’ll lift the engine covers 

 

That is why I originally suggested the engine will probably have to come out.

 

I suppose it might be possible to get a new foot fabricated that bolts onto the back of the flywheel housing using the existing bolts, longer if necessary.

 

 

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Quick question to all, there is a shipwrights here in the marina, I haven’t spoken to them yet but assume they do welding, if not could a mobile welder do this or is it too specialised 

[Peugeot 106]

I used an air wedge from Screwfix to lift the front of my engine. I cut the finger bulb off, extended the pipe and fitted a car tyre valve. (I cut it off a car inner tube). I used a bike pump which gave me more pressure. I sandwiched the air wedge between two pieces of ply as you need max contact area for max lift capacity. The wedge was rated I think 180kg but I took care to keep my fingers from underneath. My engine is 2 cylinder but I would definitely try on a bigger engine as it was very successful and controllable. You can only expect say 1 inch lift each time without chocking.

 

the arrangement was very easy to place in the tight space available. I couldn’t use a scissor jack and short lift hydraulic jacks are expensive unless you have a hydraulic pump

 

To increase pressure I may try a foot pump sometime but you must always make sure no damage will be done to you or the engine  if the bag bursts. ( just keep adding chocks under the engine)

 

it’s cheap to try the air wedge (£15) 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

Quick question to all, there is a shipwrights here in the marina, I haven’t spoken to them yet but assume they do welding, if not could a mobile welder do this or is it too specialised 

 

If it is cast then you need a specialist welder. I had a huge problem getting a 'cracked' cast iron frame on a tractor implement welded - it was welded and cracked again (vibration), welded and cracked again (vibration) and eventually I had to have it 'stitched'.

It is not a cheap process, but, cheaper than a new engine.

 

Cast Iron is not easy !

 

 Metalocking Metal Stitching | Metal Stitching Cast Iron

Edited November 18, 2024 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Quick question to all, there is a shipwrights here in the marina, I haven’t spoken to them yet but assume they do welding, if not could a mobile welder do this or is it too specialised 

Ok breakfast over, 1st mate don’t have that really scary look on her face so

much now and so I can make a start without her doing that, “and what’s it going to cost” thing

 

 the casing is defo cast iron as I thought,  hopefully I can post the pics I’ve taken. If so you can see that engines got to come out. There will be no “jacking it up stuff” just not enough room to work/remove/adapt anything around there. Off to speak to the shipwrights 

Can only post one pic at a time so

engine bay

[Alan de Enfield]

I take it this is the break ?