Boat comparison and your input please

[KezzerN]

Today I looked at several boats and two of them interest me.

 

The first one is this boat: https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/8063.aspx   I took a picture of the engine - it is the blue one below.  It started up fine and didn't sound ropey.

 

The next one that interested me was this one: https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/8082.aspx  The picture of the yellow engine below is from this one.  Likewise the engine started up fine and sounded OK.

 

They were both really nice internally with no sign of damp through smell or visually.  Any input on them, the pros and cons, would be much appreciated.

 

I also meant to look at this one but forgot: https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/8044.aspx  Your thoughts on this boat as well would be much appreciated. I will have to go back again to view it and it is a long way so don't want to make the trip if you think there are many negatives to it.

 

I looked at some others but preferred the external layout on the first two with more space available for sitting outside.

 

Many thanks in advance for your input. It is very much appreciated.

 

Best regards,

Kez

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Reading the specs I expect some comments from some on here. I prefer the drive train of the first.

[Alan de Enfield]

Interesting that they are listing all three boats as not complying with the RCD / RCR.

Maybe I shouldn't be amazed considering that Venetian is a 'daughter' company to Whilton.

 

@KezzerN

Give them a call and ask them why the boats are non compliant with the RCD / RCR

[jonathanA]

 I think all 3 are OK for the money (as a starting point for negotiation)  

Personally I would pass on the black Prince ex hire boat, its the cheapest for a reason. 

 

50 foot is  a nice size for a couple for leisure use . Not sure I'd want to live full time on a 50 footer, but depends on your needs/budget. Cheaper to licence, moor etc then a 60 something... 

 

Isuzu engine would be my choice in an ideal world. There was a reason they were popular with hire companies ..

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Interesting that they are listing all three boats as not complying with the RCD / RCR.

Maybe I shouldn't be amazed considering that Venetian is a 'daughter' company to Whilton.

 

@KezzerN

Give them a call and ask them why the boats are non compliant with the RCD / RCR

Thought you would be the first

 

12 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

 I think all 3 are OK for the money (as a starting point for negotiation)  

Personally I would pass on the black Prince ex hire boat, its the cheapest for a reason. 

 

Not so well insulated  (in theory) as the other two for winter use.

[Momac]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Give them a call and ask them why the boats are non compliant with the RCD / RCR

My guess is there is no evidence of compliance.

[robtheplod]

20 minutes ago, Momac said:

My guess is there is no evidence of compliance.

what would class as evidence out of curiosity?

[matty40s]

The RCD compliance NO, is a red herring, especially for the boats of 2000 and 2002 vintage, it just means that there isnt a folder available for a boat built over 20 years ago, the Black Prince will have been built to a higher safety level anyway as it was a public hire vessel.

The Black Prince will have had its engine serviced regularly whilst in hire, may well have had several new engines, and the whole boat has been built so everything can be serviced, removed very easily. Areas to watch for rust are the double integral pumpout tank, and the rear of the engine bay around the weed hatch, usually underwater a lot due to the common design.

[Momac]

Just now, robtheplod said:

what would class as evidence out of curiosity?

A CE plate on the boat and certification from when the boat was built including the paperwork that came with the engine and the boat builders manual for the boat.

From this documentation  any significant alterations  should be apparent.

 

 

[robtheplod]

4 minutes ago, Momac said:

A CE plate on the boat and certification from when the boat was built including the paperwork that came with the engine and the boat builders manual for the boat.

From this documentation  any significant alterations  should be apparent.

 

 

so most boats would fail I'd imagine?

[Gybe Ho]

You chose well for your first boat viewing day.

 

Honey Badger is a contender and maintains a fresh look 15 years post build. Has it been refitted because there are some odd finishing details not typical of the mainstream builders. Some photo views look like a budget DIY finish yet others say quality e.g. wooden internal window liners and the galley.

 

As you see more boats you will come to understand that owners can cause a lot of damage over the years with their junk-bond interior enhancement projects. Honey Badger seems to have had wise owners, though the solar wiring cables coming through a ceiling vent in the kitchen is a minor black mark but not unusual. There is a nicely finished side-hatch to the galley, a positive. A second bedroom is unusual at 60ft, I would remove the bed and convert to an office, dinette or project space.

 

All three boats have dated electrical specs, at £60k and under you will be lucky to find a major upgrade to the electrics with a cabinet full of modern blue Victron components. Budget for a lithium battery upgrade within a year or two. Use the electrical components cupboard as a quality yardstick, the greater the wiring spaghetti chaos factor the more suspicious you should be of the prior owners.

 

 Honey Badger would be on my short-list however I am aesthetically troubled by the close pitch of the full sized windows, it looks really odd. I wonder if the original owner put some design constraint on the builder and the result was too many window & porthole openings.

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2024 by Gybe Ho

[LadyG]

Personally, there are two things I would require of a liveaboard boat

One is a solid fuel stove in the middle of the boat.

Two, good insulation,  which is down to the original build, most will be spray foam these days.

I would stick to a 55 -57ft boat if I expected to move, they will go almost anywhere on the system. 

The Isuzu is the more reliable engine,  but I don't know  what those random bricks are doing, my engine hole looks a lot smarter than either of those.

I'd keep looking.

I would not worry about paperwork other than proof of ownership.

 

Edited November 9, 2024 by LadyG

[Momac]

10 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

so most boats would fail I'd imagine?

I dare say you could be correct when it comes to narrowboats. Less so with lumpy water boats.

 

[Ewan123]

What are you planning to use the boat for? Weekend holidays, long cruises, living aboard in a marina? How many people? Are there any waterways you couldn't bear missing out on (the 62ft and 60ft boat will have some, though not many, limitations there).

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

My guess is there is no evidence of compliance.

 

In which case they are non-compliant.

[KezzerN]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

 

I intend to use the boat for live aboard and want to travel in it, so in use 365 days of the year.  It will just be me and my very old cat.

 

What is RCD / RCR and how will it impact me in terms of safety certificate?

 

Another question: is it difficult to get a washing machine plumbed in?  Honey Badger doesn't have one - there is a twin tub type thing sat outside but I think it might be manual rather than electric???

 

Regarding the double bed, that will go as I don't need it and that area will be converted to some other use.

[Ewan123]

If it was just me and the mog I think I'd be tempted by a shorter boat. I like our 62ft but that's for two who work from home, and what might be a stern cabin space we use as an office - two sat at a desk. If that extra room wasn't required, I'd go shorter personally.

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, KezzerN said:

 

 

What is RCD / RCR and how will it impact me in terms of safety certificate?

 

No impact on the Boat Safety Certificate

 

 

The Recreational Craft Regulations applies to all new boats first used since 1998. It was first known as the Recreational Craft Directive.

While it applies to new boats but if a boat has been significantly altered a new assessment is required. 

 

 

[Gybe Ho]

28 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

The Isuzu is the more reliable engine,  but I don't know  what those random bricks are doing, my engine hole looks a lot smarter than either of those.

 

 

Trim ballast.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

The Black Prince will have had its engine serviced regularly whilst in hire, may well have had several new engines, and the whole boat has been built so everything can be serviced, removed very easily. Areas to watch for rust are the double integral pumpout tank, and the rear of the engine bay around the weed hatch, usually underwater a lot due to the common design.

On the other hand it has polystyrene insulation, rather than spray foam, and an Eperspacher that has never worked. That would suggest that since it came out of the hire fleet the private owner(s) have not cared for it as well as a hire company would.

[LadyG]

I have put a single mattress in the bed alcove,and use the extra space for storage, most double beds are probably 4ft 6".

I use my diner as a desk and dining area.

I use the well deck for storage of coal in the winter.

my washing machine is never used, i get my laundry done once a month, pick up and delivery £30-35 every month. Drying bedding etc would be a nightmare. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by LadyG

[Ewan123]

We have that Isuzu engine, it's easy to take care of. One nice feature is that it's self-bleeding, so after changing fuel filters for example, you just turn the key to the first position and let the fuel pump go on until it's ready.

 

Hot water on Chaffinch sounds like it would need improving for a liveaboard - I wouldn't want to always have to run the engine just to get hot water.

 

Our washing machine was taken out. You'll eat into your water and energy resources by using one on board, particularly key when not marina-based. We just have enough clothes for two weeks and then take them to a laundrette. It's actually really nice not to think about laundry for 13 days and not have any wet clothes regularly hanging to dry in the boat.

[Momac]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In which case they are non-compliant.

They could be compliant with the standards at the time they were built. But we don't know do we what evidence is present and what is absent.

If they were self built they might be  exempt.

 

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, KezzerN said:

What is RCD / RCR and how will it impact me in terms of safety certificate?

 

It is a (massive) set of regulations a new boat 'must' be built in compliance with. The builder self-certifies s/he has complied. No-one checks, no-one enforces so the whole scheme struggles for credibility.

 

Some buyers care enormously about RCD/RCR compliance, others (most) couldn't give a frying fluck about it.

 

Alan and Tony both seem to care enormously. Dunno about anyone else here!

 

Edit to add:

Forgot to say, the requirements of RCD/RCR are extensive and much, MUCH stricter than the BSS safety ticket. Any boat genuinely complying with RCD/RCR will sail through a BSS inspection. Trouble is, even if the boat has all the right RCD/RCR paperwork it might be a work of fiction as no-one checks or inspects a newly built boat.

Edited November 9, 2024 by MtB

[Gybe Ho]

13 minutes ago, KezzerN said:

 

What is RCD / RCR and how will it impact me in terms of safety certificate?

 

 

Legal/Regulatory ambiguity that excites bored men on internet forums.

 

16 minutes ago, KezzerN said:

 

Another question: is it difficult to get a washing machine plumbed in? 

 

 

Washing machines are common, simpler to install if you choose a slimline model. Better still if you can find a model that allows you to full it with water warmed on a gas hob before the program starts... much less strain on your batteries.

 

21 minutes ago, KezzerN said:

 

Regarding the double bed, that will go as I don't need it and that area will be converted to some other use.

 

 

Errr? Did you look under the bed?  It will most likely be hiding a toilet holding tank or hotwater tank that will help warm the bed on cold nights.