King’s canal charity accused of forcing itinerant barge owners out of London

[Alan de Enfield]

From The Telegraph :

 

The King’s canal charity has been accused of forcing itinerant canal boaters out of central London.

People living in houseboats across the capital claim new daily charges introduced by the Canal and River Trust (CRT) at a number of its mooring points are “punishingly expensive”.

 

The National Bargee Travellers Association (NBTA), which represents them, has warned that if the charges are not reversed, canals risk being turned back into the hotspots of crime they were in the 1980s and 1990s.

The CRT maintains that the £25 to £35 a night pre-bookable berths are necessary in “tourist hotspots” to allow boaters coming into London for short stays to have a guaranteed place to stay.

But those who live on London’s canals permanently say the fees – which come to an annual equivalent of £12,775 a year – are unaffordable

 

Colin Legge, 41, has lived in a canal boat since 2014 and says the fees are “too expensive” and could be “the end of London’s boaters”.

“It’s a way of monetising the waterways but we can’t use them because they’re too expensive,” he told The Telegraph from his boat in Victoria Park. “It’s hard not to feel like all their policies are about eroding itinerant boating as a way of life and making it impossible to continuously cruise.”

Previously, “continuous cruisers” could moor anywhere if they paid for an annual licence, which is usually between £1,000 and £2,000.

 

The CRT, which manages 2,000 miles of canals and rivers in England and Wales, has since returned Camden to free mooring “following a review”.

Nick Corrigan, 56, warned that if “persecuted”, canal boaters like him are forced from central London because of the cost of the charges, the canals could become “dangerous”.

“There are some areas where there are just no boats anymore,” said the learning and development charity worker.

“When there are boats there, it feels safe. But now when they are gone, it’s now really odd,” he said.

“The most unforeseen circumstance is making towpaths more dangerous. That is the key one. I also think it is breaking the social contract between boaters and the Canal and River Trust that we should be partners in this.

“The more we’re persecuted, the less we are invested in our local area.”

 

The new pre-bookable moorings were introduced in Camden, Islington, Little Venice, Paddington and Rembrandt Gardens earlier this year.

A Freedom of Information (FOI) request made by the NBTA has found that in their first six months of operation, they had an occupancy rate of just 16.5 per cent.

  

Edited November 2 by Alan de Enfield

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

(From what I understand) CRT have recently dropped the Camden bookable moorings 

👍

(Whoops, I see you say/report that)

[Ewan123]

"The King's canal charity" - what an odd way to refer to CRT.

 

I think both sides are too extreme. There are lots of these bookable spaces sitting empty, so at least a lower price would seem like a sensible response. I wouldn't want to spend £25-£35 per night myself (not that I'm keen on returning to London anyway, to be fair).

[Lady M]

I'm sure the initial bookable spaces were £10/night.  The higher fees are a bit too much.  It would make more sense to have a higher fee for the first night, then the £10 for subsequent ones up to a maximum of, say, 7 nights - or as they say these days 7 days.

[Rob-M]

A lot cheaper than a hotel room though.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

A lot cheaper than a hotel room though.

 

 

And £12000 a year for a residential London Mooring is not expensive.

 

 

But, 365 x £25 per night is £9100 (but that is not so 'headline grabbing')

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

I find it quite amusing when people talk about 'lifestyles'. 

 

I wonder, in reality, how long the average canal Boat owner in London has actually been living on a Boat for. 

 

Might their choice be related to it being so cheap ? Is it something they have done for decades?

 

There will be all sorts but I don't buy into the theme of it being some sort of race thing. 

I've been living on Boats for 30 years since I was 20 but I still don't see how that would put me into some sort of special bracket of people who should be immune from paying mooring costs in the capital city. 

 

i don't understand why this attitude exists. What is so special about Boats anyway?? 

 

 

[matty40s]

This is actually quite ridculous( as usual) from the NBTA.

A few honeypot moorings in 3 locations are chargeable, just to give other boaters a chance of actually getting a mooring on the holiday, or journey through London. All the rest is available to double and triple moor on....from Bulls Bridge to Limehouse and up to Stanstead Abbots.

Off the top of my head there is 1 by the Little Venices services, 2 at Rembrandt Gardens, space for 3 or max 4 under the hospital in Paddy Basin, and 5 possibly on the pontoon on the other side. The ones with electric nearer to Kings Cross are possibly 5 long.

 

Hardly "forcing everybody out of C London."

[magnetman]

I think the NBTA is probably just basically a load of squatters with issues. 

 

I was actually in London on my Boat when residential property squatting was criminalised. There was definitely a change on the canal as an influx of squatters appeared. R

 

Two of the Woman's friends, who had previously been squatting a house by Hampstead Heath, rapidly bought old canal Boats. 

 

its a political thing and nought to do with living on Boats. 

 

 

 

 

Its people with issues finding something to be anti establishment about. 

 

It has calmed down a bit now but some of the behaviour from people who had suddenly discovered the Boats was actually quite theatrical.

 

Like nobody ever thought of it before. 

 

Oh dear ! 

Never mind. 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Ewan123 said:

"The King's canal charity" - what an odd way to refer to CRT.

 

I think both sides are too extreme. There are lots of these bookable spaces sitting empty, so at least a lower price would seem like a sensible response. I wouldn't want to spend £25-£35 per night myself (not that I'm keen on returning to London anyway, to be fair).

I know no one on here does Face Book but its a common question newer boaters ask is can they pre book moorings anywhere from Birmingham to Llangollen including Bugsworth Basin. Of course the moorings wont be booked 12 months a year, 70% (guess) of boaters wont go out between now and April.

 

A question that I have no idea of the answer. How many bookable moorings are there in London and how many boats moored in London on free to use moorings.

[Mike Todd]

There are just 7 places listed on the pre booking page of CaRT's website. Whilst it is not easy to find out the charges until you have selected a specific set of dates, for the next week they appear to be £20 per night. (or, rather, what I tried gave £40 for two nights) When we stayed in Paddington last autumn it was £50 for two nights. 

 

For a casual visitor, knowing that long term occupancy of most moorings spots is extensive, we felt that the charge was worth it for the knowledge that we had a guaranteed slot on the dates we wanted. As far as I can see, none of the 7 places is intended for long term residency.

 

Edit:

 

I have now found the page on CaRT web site with charges:

 

 

Little Venice	£25
Rembrandt Gardens (Little Venice Pool)	£25
Paddington Station	£25
Paddington Merchant Square	£25
Camden	£35
Kings Cross Eco-Mooring	£35
Angel Islington Eco-Mooring	£35

 

 

The £35 places include electricity. I also note that the overstay charge on short term moorings (if ever collected!) is £25 a day - so the same. Perhaps it would be possible to consider changing all of central London to 48hr only with enforcement/charging like in car parks! (only kidding!)

Edited November 3 by Mike Todd
add more info (and a wind up!)

[magnetman]

I wonder if these people go into Lidl and get to the till only to discover the Pasta is 41p and they want to be 10p. Do complaints get heard? 

 

The CRT does need money for the rather wonderful canal system. Lock gates don't grow on trees. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 hours ago, matty40s said:

This is actually quite ridculous( as usual) from the NBTA.

A few honeypot moorings in 3 locations are chargeable, just to give other boaters a chance of actually getting a mooring on the holiday, or journey through London. All the rest is available to double and triple moor on....from Bulls Bridge to Limehouse and up to Stanstead Abbots.

Off the top of my head there is 1 by the Little Venices services, 2 at Rembrandt Gardens, space for 3 or max 4 under the hospital in Paddy Basin, and 5 possibly on the pontoon on the other side. The ones with electric nearer to Kings Cross are possibly 5 long.

 

Hardly "forcing everybody out of C London."

from my observations this year, I think CRT may have given up on Camden because it may always be full of folk not paying and has proved harder to enforce than they imagined 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

 

although I think £35 a night is a lot to be asking at Islington, it’s great to have the opportunity to hook up to electricity. 
But hooking up charges are a bit of a con. 
 

it’s worth realising that at most of these bookable moorings you can end up double moored, particularly at Little Venice and if that’s not your thing (and it’s not mine if I’ve paid £25 to tie up) then the pontoons at Paddington Basin are ideal because you are guaranteed a spot to yourself. 
 

I reckon for folk passing through London on a visit the bookable moorings are a good idea. If one wants to stay longer then there are spaces to be found if you have the time to go on the hunt and are willing to double or triple up. 
 

 

27 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The £35 places include electricity.

yes, but electricity it’s not part of the £35 charge,

You’ll need to sign up online and buy some lecky. Minimum payment is a tenner. 
 

[David Mack]

36 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Perhaps it would be possible to consider changing all of central London to 48hr only with enforcement/charging like in car parks! (only kidding!)

Well it's currently mostly 14 day only and they don't seem to be able to enforce that, so how would they address a much more resource intensive 48hr policy?

[Gybe Ho]

12 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

it’s worth realising that at most of these bookable moorings you can end up double moored, particularly at Little Venice and if that’s not your thing (and it’s not mine if I’ve paid £25 to tie up) then the pontoons at Paddington Basin are ideal because you are guaranteed a spot to yourself. 
 

 

You should trying Solent yachting. In Yarmouth IOW the going weekend rate for an overnight visitor walkashore jetty mooring is £48 for a middle sized 36ft yacht. In peak summer double of triple rafting can be expected.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, Gybe Ho said:

 

You should trying Solent yachting. In Yarmouth IOW the going weekend rate for an overnight visitor walkashore jetty mooring is £48 for a middle sized 36ft yacht. In peak summer double of triple rafting can be expected.

Yes, those sorts of costs was one of many reasons that put me off getting a proper boat. 
 

When I found I could moor and holiday at Tipton for no extra cost after paying for a Canal and River License I knew I was on to a winner!

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

Yes, those sorts of costs was one of many reasons that put me off getting a proper boat. 
 

When I found I could moor and holiday at Tipton for no extra cost after paying for a Canal and River License I knew I was on to a winner!

I can think of worst places, good beer, choice of three Indian Takeaways and the Pie factory 

[Naughty Cal]

£25 -£35 a night sounds like a bargain for a central London location!

 

With electric as well. 

[Victor Vectis]

13 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

You should trying Solent yachting. In Yarmouth IOW the going weekend rate for an overnight visitor walkashore jetty mooring is £48 for a middle sized 36ft yacht. In peak summer double of triple rafting can be expected.

Yeahbut.......worth it!

The Isle of Wight is a lot nicer than that there London.

😃

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I can think of worst places, good beer, choice of three Indian Takeaways and the Pie factory 

and they’ve a Poundland, two Chippies, 
 

 

Just now, Victor Vectis said:

Yeahbut.......worth it!

The Isle of Wight is a lot nicer than that there London.

😃

but have you a Poundland?

[Ray T]

41 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

You should trying Solent yachting. In Yarmouth IOW the going weekend rate for an overnight visitor walkashore jetty mooring is £48 for a middle sized 36ft yacht. In peak summer double of triple rafting can be expected.

When I, as skipper, and friends chartered yachts the mooring fees were an accepted fact of life. The cost of mooring was shared amongst the crew, so it wasn’t so prohibitive. Also rafting up was the accepted norm, in my experience quite a few narrow boaters struggle with this concept.
Also a few narrow boaters expect something for nothing.
Incidentally Yarmouth IOW was one of our favourite moorings, along with Buckler’s Hard. Had some good sessions in the Brickmakers Arms.
 

Edited November 3 by Ray T

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

£25 -£35 a night sounds like a bargain for a central London location!

 

With electric as well. 

Even better when you land a mooring with no charges 👍

 

 

[Gybe Ho]

2 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Also rafting up was the accepted norm, in my experience a few narrow boaters struggle with this concept. 

 

 

I remember Poole Town Quay in the late 1980's when the rafts would extend to 6 yachts, then they built the marina and that experience was lost. Rafting is still done at Weymouth quay, I like it because it encourages socializing between visiting crews. Narrowboaters would have to adopt mooring line compensators if rafting became more common.

 

Was your experience of Yarmouth before it became a partial marina (2012?). It remains a Solent favourite, one of the few places where they occasionally put up a harbour full notice. 

30 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

but have you a Poundland?

 

 

No, only £1 a minute marina showers in Yarmouth IOW that are notorious throughout the Solent sailing community.

[Ray T]

2 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

I remember Poole Town Quay in the late 1980's when the rafts would extend to 6 yachts, then they built the marina and that experience was lost. Rafting is still done at Weymouth quay, I like it because it encourages socializing between visiting crews. Narrowboaters would have to adopt mooring line compensators if rafting became more common.

 

Was your experience of Yarmouth before it became a partial marina (2012?). It remains a Solent favourite, one of the few places where they occasionally put up a harbour full notice. 

I did a course with the National Sailing School on Red Runner, Tom Cunliffe was the instructor and he introduced us to the delights of The King Charles in Poole. Incidentally Tom has a wonderful singing voice! 
I last visited Yarmouth about 10 years ago. The loss of a dear friend and age has caused me to hang up my souwester. The friend was an ace navigator and this freed me up to concentrate on skippering.
 

[Victor Vectis]

5 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

and they’ve a Poundland, two Chippies, 
 

 

but have you a Poundland?

Not quite.

With a ferry surcharge its a £1.50 land.

😃