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As someone about to get their first boat and planning to be in a marina for the first 6 months, it seems I cannot get a 12 month licence with mooring, without proof of 12 months mooring. So, if I get a cc licence but actually have a home mooring, what will stop me falling foul of the cc rules? That is, being spotted in the same area too often and being on record as a cc'er, when in actual fact I have a mooring?

Thanks all.

Edited by NapoleonDynamite
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1 hour ago, NapoleonDynamite said:

As someone about to get their first boat and planning to be in a marina for the first 6 months, it seems I cannot get a 12 month licence with mooring, without proof of 12 months mooring. So, if I get a cc licence but actually have a home mooring, what will stop me falling foul of the cc rules? That is, being spotted in the same area too often and being on record as a cc'er, when in actual fact I have a mooring?

Thanks all.


If the marina requires you to have a licence then you will be spotted in the marina. You won’t be blind to CRT. If that’s the only place you are spotted then that’s fine because you have a right to stay there. 
 

When you are not in the marina move every 14 days as a minimum.

 

Also note that inside the marina is a different place to the towpath right outside it. 
 

Having a paid mooring for part of the duration of a licence does not absolve you of the need to cover a sufficient cruising range. So in addition to moving regularly when outside the marina you will also need to do an extended cruise at some point.

 

A key thing is to be able to demonstrate where you have been in case you aren’t spotted by CRT while out and about.

 

ETA - could be moot points in this instance given potential error in OP’s premises but those are rules for folks without home moorings who take paid moorings during the course of their licence as I understand and apply them as such a person.

 

Edited by BCN Challenge
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2 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I thought you just needed a signed mooring contract from your mooring provider to submit to CRT as evidence you have paid for a mooring of minimum 6 months.

My understanding also from having purchased a licence last week.

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I would just get a CCing license from the start if your just going into the Marina for 6 month. The cost of a yearly CCing license is aprox £1400 per year, the cost of a HM Licence £1335 and when you transfer to CCing license they will charge you £30 admin to do so, also you won’t have the hassle that could occur with the transfer of licence.
 You’ll also be licensed once you get to your Marina so complying with their mooring agreement and starting on a good foot and if CaRT query your stay, you just phone them up and explain you’ve got temporary moorings for six month and send them a copy of your 6 month agreement that confirms your stay.
 

Edited by BoatinglifeupNorth
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1 hour ago, BCN Challenge said:

Having a paid mooring for part of the duration of a licence does not absolve you of the need to cover a sufficient cruising range. So in addition to moving regularly when outside the marina you will also need to do an extended cruise at some point.

If you have a paid for home mooring the movement clock resets every time you return to the home mooring. So you can, if you like, potter out to the nearest pub and return every weekend if you wish. A CCer would have to travel more extensively to stay within the rules.

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4 hours ago, David Mack said:

If you have a paid for home mooring the movement clock resets every time you return to the home mooring. So you can, if you like, potter out to the nearest pub and return every weekend if you wish. A CCer would have to travel more extensively to stay within the rules.


Agreed.
 

I try to use the term “paid mooring” for a license holder without a home mooring to distinguish it from a home mooring as CRT define it for licensing purposes. In this instance the original scenario is that the licence holder is a “CCer” despite having a six month mooring. So at some point in the year they would have to cruise a reasonable distance, but not in the six months for which they hold a mooring contract, when as you say they can shuffle to and from that mooring.

 

Personally I’ve never seen the point of telling CRT where I am if I take a paid mooring as it makes no difference to my status. Then again I’ve never taken one for six months duration.

 

To me it all indicates why CRT’s policy of using mooring status to determine licence fee has some significant flaws.

Edited by BCN Challenge
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1 hour ago, NapoleonDynamite said:

As someone about to get their first boat and planning to be in a marina for the first 6 months, it seems I cannot get a 12 month licence with mooring, without proof of 12 months mooring. So, if I get a cc licence but actually have a home mooring, what will stop me falling foul of the cc rules? That is, being spotted in the same area too often and being on record as a cc'er, when in actual fact I have a mooring?

Thanks all.

This is how C&RT do it. Once C&RT have verified your moiring contract they can convert you to a home mooring license, if you wish.  

I don't see how being in a marina can possibly be considered as being in breach of the CC rules.

 

 

Just now, BCN Challenge said:

To me it all indicates why CRT’s policy of using mooring status to determine licence fee has some significant flaws.

C&RT are certainly making hard work of it. The admin cost for them must be quite high. 

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I’d be more concerned committing to a 6 month mooring contract IF that’s what the OP has done. 
 

All depends on circumstances but IF the idea is to use the Marina for winter, the OP might get a little fed up sitting still with a new boat and soon realise the weather’s only really shit for short periods on and off over the winter and there’s plenty of cruising to do.
 

If circumstances allow, I’d ditch the mooring and get on with boating. 
Book in places adhoc as and when it suits. Saving money for coal, diesel and them winter evenings in the pub 👍
 

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2 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’d be more concerned committing to a 6 month mooring contract IF that’s what the OP has done. 
 

All depends on circumstances but IF the idea is to use the Marina for winter, the OP might get a little fed up sitting still with a new boat and soon realise the weather’s only really shit for short periods on and off over the winter and there’s plenty of cruising to do.
 

If circumstances allow, I’d ditch the mooring and get on with boating. 
Book in places adhoc as and when it suits. Saving money for coal, diesel and them winter evenings in the pub 👍
 

I think when one firsts ventures in to boating there may be a notion the somehow being in a marina is sort of like sheltered accommodation, but its not, there may be a built in community welcoming you and helping out, or there may be nothing. Best bite the bullet once everything is working,  clean fuel, engine serviced, and off you go.

Oh you'll need mooring pins, nappy pins, mooring ropes, Internet.

 

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I think when one firsts ventures in to boating there may be a notion the somehow being in a marina is sort of like sheltered accommodation, but its not, there may be a built in community welcoming you and helping out, or there may be nothing. Best bite the bullet once everything is working,  clean fuel, engine serviced, and off you go.

Oh you'll need mooring pins, nappy pins, mooring ropes, Internet.

 

 Being his first boat and the time of year he’ll be taken charge of it, I would say stay in the Marina till April/May, as CCing Jan/Feb/Mar may not be the best thing to do with unpredictable weather, flooding, dark mornings/evenings, stoppages and why make the start of your boating life harder then it can be. Get to know the boat and plan for cruising and at least if they don’t like the next winter they’ll know they’re better suited wintering in a Marina having done so.

Edited by BoatinglifeupNorth
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40 minutes ago, Momac said:

C&RT are certainly making hard work of it. The admin cost for them must be quite high. 

 

No, it's a profit centre!

 

A friend of mine got a boat craned in August bank holiday, tried to licence it and was told he could only have a CC licence because his mooring contract hadn't been shown to them.

 

So he did, and sent them the mooring contract to review the day after.  Which they eventually looked at on 4th October, then charged him for another full 12 month licence.

 

So for essentially September he paid CC licence for August, September, October plus a £30 admin fee.  He hasn't had the remaining balance refunded yet ...

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Yes, I’m part in agreement with that and LadyG mentions how there might be a good community in the marina. There are lots of pluses. 
I would just have an open/easy month by month agreement to give me the flexibility to change my mind and do as I wish. 
We may have a wonderful March 🤷‍♀️and we occasionally get a very warm February. 
And then we get an April with all the weathers. 

I’d keep me options open. 

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7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

No, it's a profit centre!

 

A friend of mine got a boat craned in August bank holiday, tried to licence it and was told he could only have a CC licence because his mooring contract hadn't been shown to them.

 

So he did, and sent them the mooring contract to review the day after.  Which they eventually looked at on 4th October, then charged him for another full 12 month licence.

 

So for essentially September he paid CC licence for August, September, October plus a £30 admin fee.  He hasn't had the remaining balance refunded yet ...

My friend had basically the same scenario, went on for months, then they said they wouldn’t refund her but credit her, she took it higher and was eventually refunded cash back into her bank account.

 As I said to the OP just get a CCing license, avoid paying the £30 admin and any hassle that might happen on the transfer from HM to CC license.

Edited by BoatinglifeupNorth
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2 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’d be more concerned committing to a 6 month mooring contract IF that’s what the OP has done. 
 

All depends on circumstances but IF the idea is to use the Marina for winter, the OP might get a little fed up sitting still with a new boat and soon realise the weather’s only really shit for short periods on and off over the winter and there’s plenty of cruising to do.
 

If circumstances allow, I’d ditch the mooring and get on with boating. 
Book in places adhoc as and when it suits. Saving money for coal, diesel and them winter evenings in the pub 👍
 

All very well but if you have no home mooring you have to move the boat every fortnight unless you take a short term paid for mooring. Someone new to boating may not know if they are so keen on boating to take on that responsibility over the winter months, taking into account work and other domestic commitments etc.

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Thanks all.

So.....we will be liveaboards, relatively new to boating, for the first 6 months atleast we will still have work commitments on 3 or 4 days a week, half an hours drive from the boat. Marina is paid quarterly, so who knows we may only do 3, or the planned 6 or longer, I've learnt not to plan too far ahead! That coupled with wanting to ease ourselves in gently whilst getting used to the boat and over the worst of the weather/stoppages we feel a marina is the right course for us. Continually cruising is the medium term aim for us tho.

 

@BoatinglifeupNorth, yes I'd spotted that the difference between cc and a mooring licence is about £64 a year so not a deal breaker in the grand scheme of things, so that was my plan.

My concern isn't with the costs of this, it's more I don't want CRT in a years time saying we'll only give you a 6 months licence because we've seen you've only pottered around a small area, tho we do plan a couple of 50 mile trips in the first few months, so I guess as long as we got recorded then we'd be fine.

5 hours ago, Rob-M said:

I thought you just needed a signed mooring contract from your mooring provider to submit to CRT as evidence you have paid for a mooring of minimum 6 months.

Pretty sure I'd read on the CRT licence page that if you are a new boater taking a home mooring for the first time, your mooring agreement must be for a minimum of 6 months and also run to the end of your licence period. 

Otherwise what's to stop folk getting a less expensive licence but only doing a 6 month stint in a marina and then ccing on the cheap for 6 months?

And......to complicate things a bit more in March or April we plan to apply for a traders licence, arts and crafts type stuff, is that relatively easy to do do part way through a licence period?

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11 minutes ago, NapoleonDynamite said:

Thanks all.

So.....we will be liveaboards, relatively new to boating, for the first 6 months atleast we will still have work commitments on 3 or 4 days a week, half an hours drive from the boat. Marina is paid quarterly, so who knows we may only do 3, or the planned 6 or longer, I've learnt not to plan too far ahead! That coupled with wanting to ease ourselves in gently whilst getting used to the boat and over the worst of the weather/stoppages we feel a marina is the right course for us. Continually cruising is the medium term aim for us tho.

 

@BoatinglifeupNorth, yes I'd spotted that the difference between cc and a mooring licence is about £64 a year so not a deal breaker in the grand scheme of things, so that was my plan.

My concern isn't with the costs of this, it's more I don't want CRT in a years time saying we'll only give you a 6 months licence because we've seen you've only pottered around a small area, tho we do plan a couple of 50 mile trips in the first few months, so I guess as long as we got recorded then we'd be fine.

Pretty sure I'd read on the CRT licence page that if you are a new boater taking a home mooring for the first time, your mooring agreement must be for a minimum of 6 months and also run to the end of your licence period. 

Otherwise what's to stop folk getting a less expensive licence but only doing a 6 month stint in a marina and then ccing on the cheap for 6 months?

And......to complicate things a bit more in March or April we plan to apply for a traders licence, arts and crafts type stuff, is that relatively easy to do do part way through a licence period?


If you apply for a traders licence you’ll start again with a new one year licence and be refunded for the remainder of the standard licence.

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3 minutes ago, BCN Challenge said:


If you apply for a traders licence you’ll start again with a new one year licence and be refunded for the remainder of the standard licence.

And if the examples in this thread are anything to go by, that wont happen simultaneously?

Maybe it'd be worth going for the traders licence from the start? Do they take longer to achieve?

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12 minutes ago, NapoleonDynamite said:

And if the examples in this thread are anything to go by, that wont happen simultaneously?

Maybe it'd be worth going for the traders licence from the start? Do they take longer to achieve?

Your learning👍they will cancel one licence and your new licence will start, this will cost £30 admin. Also depending on the day of month they process it you can end up paying the two licence fees for the same month if paying by Direct debit, or loose a full month of any refund. I can’t remember which day of the month you’ll need your new licence to start to avoid still having to pay a month of your old. I’m sure someone will know.

Edited by BoatinglifeupNorth
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28 minutes ago, NapoleonDynamite said:

And if the examples in this thread are anything to go by, that wont happen simultaneously?

Maybe it'd be worth going for the traders licence from the start? Do they take longer to achieve?


I don’t recall it being difficult at all.

 

Before you can apply for a roving trader’s licence you’ll need to submit an operating proposal to CRT via their online Business Boating pages. They will grant (or refuse) permission and set certain conditions for your operation to which you’ll have to demonstrate compliance before being allowed to apply for a trader’s licence.

 

Edited by BCN Challenge
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13 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I can’t remember which day of the month you’ll need your new licence to start to avoid still having to pay a month of your old. I’m sure someone will know.

 

1st of the month.

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8 minutes ago, NapoleonDynamite said:
14 minutes ago, BCN Challenge said:

 

And if the examples in this thread are anything to go by, that wont happen simultaneously?

Should do because you’ll be licensed,

There’s a few hoops to jump through (such as alterations on your insurance policy) and you need to tell CRT type of business etc,

takes a few days to a few weeks to process depending on what you’re trading,

then it’s a simple cancellation of your leisure license and the issue of a business license,

its all on the CRT website,

there’s also an application fee to pay for a business license,

best read the website and talk to CRT direct,

bits and bobs have changed since I first got a trading license and CRT are becoming a little more bureaucratic each year or so,

3 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Your learning👍they will cancel one licence and your new licence will start, this will cost £30 admin. Also depending on the day of month they process it you can end up paying the two licence fees for the same month if paying by Direct debit, or loose a full month of any refund. I can’t remember which day of the month you’ll need your new licence to start to avoid still having to pay a month of your old. I’m sure someone will know.

my experience is it happens quite swiftly and money owing/owed is (or was) calculated out to the day not necessarily end of the month,

I don’t remember any admin charges but I rarely remember what day it is,

your insurance will most likely charge an admin fee 🤷‍♀️

 

 

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

1st of the month.

quite simple then,

 

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