BMC 1.5 engine issues

[The Alchemist]

Hi there.  I've just joined the forum on the recommendation of a friend who finds it very useful and informative.

I'm travelling South at the moment and I'm currently on the Trent and Mersey canal approaching Bedford Street lock number 40.

I've been beset by a number of issues on my journey and at the moment the main one is smoke coming off the engine and a daily depletion of engine oil as I travel. The oil appears to be coming from a poorly fitted rocker gasket as a result of the rocker cover being in a very poor state.

I'm unsure if the smoke is as the result of the oil leaking on to the exhaust manifold or a possible leak from said manifold.

I could do with someone taking a look at my engine to offer advice on what I need to replace/ repair to enable me to continue my journey post haste.

Any recommendations of local marine engineers or any local forum members who would be able to view and access my engine would be appreciated. Thanks 🙂

 

Edited October 16 by The Alchemist

[Tony Brooks]

I am not local so can't recommend, but oil leaking from the rocker cover gasket could leak onto the parts of the exhaust manifold that are not water cooled and are closest to combustion chambers, so yes a leak from the manifold side of the rocker cover gasket is very likely to smoke.

 

If you can get a gasket it is not too hard to change, the two nuts on top of the cover. I would advise sticking the gasket to the cover with some silicon before refitting. That way it is unlikely to slip back inside the cover, which I think yours has done. You can get silicon gaskets and they tend to be less distorted and seal better than the cork ones.

[The Alchemist]

Thanks. I think I'd like to have someone look at the engine just to make sure that's it's nothing more serious.

I've ordered a replacement rocker cover kit which is being delivered locally this weekend and I'm planning on cleaning up the excessive oil on the engine in the meantime, as soon as this weather improves! 🤗

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Thanks. I think I'd like to have someone look at the engine just to make sure that's it's nothing more serious.

I've ordered a replacement rocker cover kit which is being delivered locally this weekend and I'm planning on cleaning up the excessive oil on the engine in the meantime, as soon as this weather improves! 🤗

 

I am going to stick my neck out on this because I think anything more serious is unlikely.

 

Below the manifold, there is/should be a hose connecting the crankcase breather to the air cleaner. If the engine was very badly worn you could get smoke from there when the engine is stopped, but it would also likely burn oil and that means smoke from the exhaust. If the engine was badly worn, then you would have cold starting problems. The only other thing that could cause smoke is if the pipe, often a flexible wrapped in insulating bandage, between the manifold and exhaust silencer has split, but that smoke would not emanate close/alongside to the manifold. It is also likely to produce a lot of black dust in the leak area.

 

So if it starts easily from cold, with the glow plugs, and there is not much exhaust smoke I think that you can be fairly confident that there is not a lot wrong with the engine, unless you have symptoms you have not mentioned. If you were to change the gasket, cleaned the oil and then found the smoking stopped, that would rule out anything more serious. Oil leaks from that point on the rocker cover gasket are well known and common on 1.5Ds

 

When you are new to something, it is all too easy to allow one's mind to run away with all sorts of possibilities when something goes wrong, and most times things are nowhere near as bad as you imagine. Hopefully a local member will give you a recommendation.

Edited October 16 by Tony Brooks

[The Alchemist]

Thanks Tony. As I mentioned in the original post, I have been beset by a number of issues since I began my journey, which include cold start issues and electrical issues. So although I have got the rocker cover part's on the way. I think being looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at would probably be prudent. 🙂

[Peugeot 106]

Could you join RCR.? You’d have to look on their website for terms and conditions but they might come out and put your mind at rest (or otherwise). NB RCR is River Canal Rescue. They would fit your rocker cover gasket for I think around £40/ hour. Look them up on the web or give them a ring

[hider]

Bedford St staircase is on the Cauldon canal not the T&M, which way are you going? 

[Peugeot 106]

Note I’d be trying what Tony suggests first before I contacted anyone unless there is something else you are not telling him about. Tony is the BMC expert and generally correct with his diagnosis

[The Alchemist]

29 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Could you join RCR.? You’d have to look on their website for terms and conditions but they might come out and put your mind at rest (or otherwise). NB RCR is River Canal Rescue. They would fit your rocker cover gasket for I think around £40/ hour. Look them up on the web or give them a ring

Thanks for the recommendation. I've messaged them and layed out my issue to enquire whether they would be able to send someone to take a look. 

I know it maybe costly for me, but I would have peace of mind knowing that the issues I have can be easily remedied. 

[Mikexx]

59 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Note I’d be trying what Tony suggests first before I contacted anyone unless there is something else you are not telling him about. Tony is the BMC expert and generally correct with his diagnosis

 

Likewise. My first thought on reading the OP was to change the rocker cover gasket and go from there.

 

My only concern is if someone has been hand-fisted on the past. The covers can distort and I would like to be certain the cover is securely clamped as the retaining bolts have limited travel. If I was worried I might change the rubbers too unless they're in very good condition.

[The Alchemist]

From the state of the cover, it's clear as you put it that someone has indeed been hand-fisted and it is distorted.

The kit I've ordered includes a new cover to replace the damaged one along with a new gasket, grommets, washers and header nuts.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Any recommendations of local marine engineers or any local forum members who would be able to view and access my engine would be appreciated. Thanks 🙂

If you’re at Etruria and heading South then you ain’t far from Stone,

there’s a hire base above yard lock and they’re very good,

They’ll help you out and I’m pretty sure they used to have BMC 1500’s in all their boats,

worth ringing and asking,

and a lovely town to rest up while you fix stuff,

 

the other option is to pop back to Festival Park Marina and ask their advice but I’ve had no dealings with them other than buying coal and diesel,

but have used Stone on several occasions and I can recommend them,

 

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Thanks Tony. As I mentioned in the original post, I have been beset by a number of issues since I began my journey, which include cold start issues and electrical issues. So although I have got the rocker cover part's on the way. I think being looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at would probably be prudent. 🙂

 

If those electrical issues involved faulty batteries or charging problems, then there is a good chance that the cold start problems were due to low cranking speed (discharged start battery). It is also possible that the glow plugs are carbonned up in the head (a well now 1.5D problem) or one or more may be faulty. If it is starting for now, don't worry about the glow plugs until you can get somewhere convenient to be held up. Ask if you wnat more info.

[The Alchemist]

Thank you Tony. From the responses I've had today you are the best guy to get good information from so I'm going to go with all you have said.

I really appreciate your help here as I'm quite the novice with a diesel engine.

As I have mentioned on some of the other responses I have some parts coming this weekend so I'll clean up the oil and fit the new rocker cover, gasket, grommets and nuts when they arrive and take it from there.

As regards the starting problems, I have recently removed the alternator last month and taken it in to a company which tested it on a rig they have set up and they tell me that it is outputting without issue. I purchased the starter battery earlier this year, but I do also have a split charge relay setup and a hybrid lithium battery system setup which I have been having a problem with as its burnt out two amp meters in the past few months, but that's a separate issue, I think!

Thanks again for your response, and I may just take you up on your offer of further assistance should I be unable to resolve this with your current advice. 🤗

[Peugeot 106]

I would say this thread demonstrates just how useful this forum is. Long may it continue

[The Alchemist]

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

If you’re at Etruria and heading South then you ain’t far from Stone,

there’s a hire base above yard lock and they’re very good,

They’ll help you out and I’m pretty sure they used to have BMC 1500’s in all their boats,

worth ringing and asking,

and a lovely town to rest up while you fix stuff,

 

the other option is to pop back to Festival Park Marina and ask their advice but I’ve had no dealings with them other than buying coal and diesel,

but have used Stone on several occasions and I can recommend them,

 

Thanks for your advice.

As I've just replied to Tony, I'm going to follow up on his advice and see how it's running afterwards, as you say Stone is South of me and in the direction I'm heading so I'll take her slow and steady and should the need arise as I resume with the journey I'll have that as an option.

[bluegreencanal]

Superb forum indeed

[Tony Brooks]

49 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Thank you Tony. From the responses I've had today you are the best guy to get good information from so I'm going to go with all you have said.

I really appreciate your help here as I'm quite the novice with a diesel engine.

As I have mentioned on some of the other responses I have some parts coming this weekend so I'll clean up the oil and fit the new rocker cover, gasket, grommets and nuts when they arrive and take it from there.

As regards the starting problems, I have recently removed the alternator last month and taken it in to a company which tested it on a rig they have set up and they tell me that it is outputting without issue. I purchased the starter battery earlier this year, but I do also have a split charge relay setup and a hybrid lithium battery system setup which I have been having a problem with as its burnt out two amp meters in the past few months, but that's a separate issue, I think!

Thanks again for your response, and I may just take you up on your offer of further assistance should I be unable to resolve this with your current advice. 🤗

 

I am afraid, I am not going to giving advice on electrics on a lithium - lead acid hybrid system, Especially if there is only a split charge relay between the two battery technologies. I don't know enough about the ins and out of lithium systems, except to say alleged drop in lithiums are probably not.

 

 

Guessing the probable alternator and ammeter, I suspect that the Lithium's propensity to accept maximum alternator output may be the cause, and you are perhaps lucky the alternator has not burned out as well.

[The Alchemist]

25 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am afraid, I am not going to giving advice on electrics on a lithium - lead acid hybrid system, Especially if there is only a split charge relay between the two battery technologies. I don't know enough about the ins and out of lithium systems, except to say alleged drop in lithiums are probably not.

 

 

Guessing the probable alternator and ammeter, I suspect that the Lithium's propensity to accept maximum alternator output may be the cause, and you are perhaps lucky the alternator has not burned out as well.

No. Sorry I should have mentioned that I also have a dc to dc charger between the lead acid and lithium battery systems which converts the 13.8 volts output to the requirements of the lithium battery so I don't believe that is the issue here. That said the dc to dc charger does present a hefty 40 amp maximum output. I'm not sure what the alternator maximum output is but the split charger relay output has a maximum 60 amp and I'm told that I shouldn't have a higher one, although my understanding is that the alternator output is greater than 60 amp.

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

No. Sorry I should have mentioned that I also have a dc to dc charger between the lead acid and lithium battery systems which converts the 13.8 volts output to the requirements of the lithium battery so I don't believe that is the issue here. That said the dc to dc charger does present a hefty 40 amp maximum output. I'm not sure what the alternator maximum output is but the split charger relay output has a maximum 60 amp and I'm told that I shouldn't have a higher one, although my understanding is that the alternator output is greater than 60 amp.

 

A typical 1.5D alternator nowadays will be a Lucas A127 that started life with about a 50A output, but nowadays a replacement is likely to be 70 amps. If yours has a higher output, then it is probably non-standard, and will be pushing the capacity of the 1.5s alternator belts.

 

If you have only 13.8V output at the end of the day plus the B2B limiting the current, then I would feel the alternator has lost a phase. This would  not apply if the charging current into the lithiums was high. The more amps an alternator outputs the lower the charging voltage, so either, despite the B2B the lithiums have forced the alternator close to full output or, at the ed of a charging period the low volts suggest a diode has failed on one phase. So at the end of a good long charging period off the alternator, what is the charging current.

 

I have no idea where you got the maximum of 60 amps for the split charge relay. Relay's can't control current, they just pass whatever is available, so if there is more current able to flow then contacts will eventually burn out.

 

Unless your hybrid battery system is a combination of LA and lithium in the domestic bank, I have no idea what you need a split charge relay, the B2B will do its job. If the relay is between a lithium domestic battery and LA engine battery, then it is simply bypassing the B2B.

 

This sort of problem and trying to find out exactly how the lithium system has been implemented is why I try to skip talking about them.

Edited October 16 by Tony Brooks

[Slim]

2 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Thanks for your advice.

As I've just replied to Tony, I'm going to follow up on his advice and see how it's running afterwards, as you say Stone is South of me and in the direction I'm heading so I'll take her slow and steady and should the need arise as I resume with the journey I'll have that as an option.

Take particular note of the silicone tip.  Good luck 😁 

[The Alchemist]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

A typical 1.5D alternator nowadays will be a Lucas A127 that started life with about a 50A output, but nowadays a replacement is likely to be 70 amps. If yours has a higher output, then it is probably non-standard, and will be pushing the capacity of the 1.5s alternator belts.

 

If you have only 13.8V output at the end of the day plus the B2B limiting the current, then I would feel the alternator has lost a phase. This would  not apply if the charging current into the lithiums was high. The more amps an alternator outputs the lower the charging voltage, so either, despite the B2B the lithiums have forced the alternator close to full output or, at the ed of a charging period the low volts suggest a diode has failed on one phase. So at the end of a good long charging period off the alternator, what is the charging current.

 

I have no idea where you got the maximum of 60 amps for the split charge relay. Relay's can't control current, they just pass whatever is available, so if there is more current able to flow then contacts will eventually burn out.

 

Unless your hybrid battery system is a combination of LA and lithium in the domestic bank, I have no idea what you need a split charge relay, the B2B will do its job. If the relay is between a lithium domestic battery and LA engine battery, then it is simply bypassing the B2B.

 

This sort of problem and trying to find out exactly how the lithium system has been implemented is why I try to skip talking about them.

The split charger output is to a single lead acid battery which then connects to the lithium battery through the dc to dc charger which, as I mentioned has a 40 amp maximum output although when I have observed the charge rate through the lithium's battery management system (BMS) it has rarely exceeds 25 amp.

The split charger relay has been down rated from what was previously a 200 amp relay to the current 60 amp relay which gets warm, but not excessively as it was doing when the 200 amp relay was in place.

I had 2 amp meters in place, one on the output for the starter battery and the second on the output for the leisure battery, but as previously mentioned the leisure battery output failed when the 200 amp relay was in place so the leisure battery output is now connected directly to the battery without the use of an amp meter and charges the lithium through the dc to dc charger.

Are you thinking that maybe why I'm having issues with starting the engine in a morning?

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

The split charger output is to a single lead acid battery which then connects to the lithium battery through the dc to dc charger which, as I mentioned has a 40 amp maximum output although when I have observed the charge rate through the lithium's battery management system (BMS) it has rarely exceeds 25 amp.

The split charger relay has been down rated from what was previously a 200 amp relay to the current 60 amp relay which gets warm, but not excessively as it was doing when the 200 amp relay was in place.

I had 2 amp meters in place, one on the output for the starter battery and the second on the output for the leisure battery, but as previously mentioned the leisure battery output failed when the 200 amp relay was in place so the leisure battery output is now connected directly to the battery without the use of an amp meter and charges the lithium through the dc to dc charger.

Are you thinking that maybe why I'm having issues with starting the engine in a morning?

 

A split charge relay's rating is related to the internal conductor size and the contact size/material. it is just an electrically operated switch.  Changing from a 200 amp one with large conductors and contact to a 60 amp one with smaller conductors and contacts would not make the new relay run any cooler, it would make it run hotter for any given current.

 

If you have a battery to battery charger between the engine and domestic batteries, why does it also need a relay? All the chargers that are capable of carrying the charge current the lithium would demand will act as a split charge relay and disconnect the domestic bank from the engine battery when the charging voltage has fallen to around 13.4 volts or so.

 

I think there must be some confusion here, which may be on my behalf.

[hider]

25 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Are you thinking that maybe why I'm having issues with starting the engine in a morning?

 

How do you eventually get the engine started in the morning?

[The Alchemist]

The split chargers purpose is to charge two lead acid battery's, the primary is the starter battery and the secondary is the leisure battery. The lithium battery has to have a lead acid battery between itself and the alternator as the output of the alternator is not adequate for lithium batteries.

The dc to dc charger then adjusts the output from the lead acid battery to the charge requirements of the lithium battery so that they are then charged through the system.