Campervan - Narrowboat swap anyone?

[JohnnyandAnne]

Hi folks.

Apologies if this post is not in the right place or is in some way against established protocols.

We are a senior (but very active) couple living in Cumbria.

We have a very nice, late model VW Campervan which we would be happy to swap for the use of a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition for a couple of weeks, or more in 2025. Dates to be decided.

Our van has all the usual equipment you would expect including, elevating roof, fridge, sink, gas hob, microwave, heating, solar panel for off-grid camping.

So let us know if you're interested please.

Johnny & Anne

[Paul C]

No plate

[1st ade]

15 minutes ago, Paul C said:

No plate

Plates will be in one of the cupboards...

 

The OP has (wisely) blanked out the Index Number

[Tony Brooks]

11 hours ago, JohnnyandAnne said:

Hi folks.

Apologies if this post is not in the right place or is in some way against established protocols.

We are a senior (but very active) couple living in Cumbria.

We have a very nice, late model VW Campervan which we would be happy to swap for the use of a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition for a couple of weeks, or more in 2025. Dates to be decided.

Our van has all the usual equipment you would expect including, elevating roof, fridge, sink, gas hob, microwave, heating, solar panel for off-grid camping.

So let us know if you're interested please.

Johnny & Anne

 

Have you thought about the insurance implications for both parties? There is also a question about if the boat licence would be valid if the owner is getting the use of the vehicle, CaRT might consider that as hiring, but it is very unlikely that they would take any action.

 

As far as the boat is concerned, the owner would have to be satisfied that you are competent to handle it at the very least and no money could be part of the arrangement. I doubt that the vehicle insurance would cover anyone not named on the policy.

 

You also seem to be proposing swapping the use of the van that is maybe valued around £20,000 for a boat costing about ten times that much. I am sure you are absolutely genuine, but boat owners have lost their boats when doing this sort of thing in the past, so many will be very wary.

 

Good luck and I hope you can organise it.

 

[Momac]

Good point about insurance . More of an insurance cost  issue for the van I suspect. But I believe private owners  do hire out their vans so insurance  will be possible.

I suspect the vehicle is worth more than £20k as it looks nearly new.

 

C&RT would be unaware of the swap arrangement so that's not an issue.

 

 

 

[GUMPY]

24 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

You also seem to be proposing swapping the use of the van that is maybe valued around £20,000 for a boat costing about ten times that much.

 

You need to look at VW camper prices again 🫢

My daughter sold her 3 year old T6 California for £55k.

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

56 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

 

You need to look at VW camper prices again 🫢

My daughter sold her 3 year old T6 California for £55k.

 

 

 

 

Still a big difference between that and "a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition" as requested by the OP. We also have no idea about its age and mileage, both of which affect the second hand price. My son recently bought a fairly new Fiat based van and paid nothing like that, and it was from a dealer.

 

The point is that it seems a very one-sided proposal, especially as money changing hands opens up another can of worms insurance, licence and BSS wise.

 

It seems it would cost just shy of £900 to hire such a van for a week in June 2025 while a nice narrowboat from Napton Narrowboats would cost between £1500 and well over £2000 for a similar period.

 

It cuts the other way too, it is very unlikely that the boat would suffer serious damage, it is far more likely that the van would have an accident and get written off. However careful the driver may be there are too many prats on the road to be sure that would not happen.

Edited October 11 by Tony Brooks

[Paul C]

41 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Still a big difference between that and "a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition" as requested by the OP. We also have no idea about its age and mileage, both of which affect the second hand price. My son recently bought a fairly new Fiat based van and paid nothing like that, and it was from a dealer.

 

The point is that it seems a very one-sided proposal, especially as money changing hands opens up another can of worms insurance, licence and BSS wise.

 

It seems it would cost just shy of £900 to hire such a van for a week in June 2025 while a nice narrowboat from Napton Narrowboats would cost between £1500 and well over £2000 for a similar period.

 

It cuts the other way too, it is very unlikely that the boat would suffer serious damage, it is far more likely that the van would have an accident and get written off. However careful the driver may be there are too many prats on the road to be sure that would not happen.

 

Tony, you don't actually have a narrowboat to offer for the swap here, do you? I think your prices are skewed, and thus your point about the inequity of the swap is rendered moot. I'd suggest you 1) look at the price of campervans, 2) look at the price of hiring one, 3) look at the likely price of (hiring) a narrowboat in the range of consideration of the OP again.

Edited October 11 by Paul C

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

We also have no idea about its age and mileage,............

 

The point is that it seems a very one-sided proposal, especially as money changing hands opens up another can of worms insurance, licence and BSS wise.

Did you look at the pictures of the van?

I may be wrong but it looks like a near new VW and looks like a professional fit out from new and not a DIY conversion from a pre existing commercial vehicle.

 

Money changing hands is not mentioned .

 

I've looked into costs for a motorhome and would say its not far off the cost for  keeping a boat on a annual basis.  A campervan would only be slightly less annual cost compared to a motorhome.

 

For a fortnights holiday  campsites are not cheap and would be a necessary expense most nights for a campervan with no toilet or shower while the boat moors for free while cruising and has in house facilities. So the daily subsistence costs for the boat are most  likely less than the campervan. I would say that balances up the costs a fair bit. 

 

So overall the offer of a swap seems not unreasonable to me .

 

My main concern from both sides of the fence would be whether the vehicle and boat are returned in the same condition at the start .

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

Tony, you don't actually have a narrowboat to offer for the swap here, do you? I think your prices are skewed, and thus your point about the inequity of the swap is rendered moot. I'd suggest you 1) look at the price of campervans, 2) look at the price of hiring one, 3) look at the likely price of (hiring) a narrowboat in the range of consideration of the OP again.

Edited 1 hour ago by Paul C

 

Who ever has the relative cost correct, the fact remains, in my view, that once the practicalities are considered and steps are taken to mitigate possible problems/dangers this proposal may well not look as attractive as it did when the OP posted.

 

Remember, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php%3F/topic/20757-stolen-narrowboat/page/4/&ved=2ahUKEwiTzKXCqIaJAxXGZ0EAHUn7Je4QrAIoAHoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2von-RFXHcHFLXzmXJycuY

 

if anyone is seriously considering this swap, and that is not the only one.

 

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

Did you look at the pictures of the van?

I may be wrong but it looks like a near new VW and looks like a professional fit out from new and not a DIY conversion from a pre existing commercial vehicle.

 

Money changing hands is not mentioned .

 

I've looked into costs for a motorhome and would say its not far off the cost for  keeping a boat on a annual basis.  A campervan would only be slightly less annual cost compared to a motorhome.

 

For a fortnights holiday  campsites are not cheap and would be a necessary expense most nights for a campervan with no toilet or shower while the boat moors for free while cruising and has in house facilities. So the daily subsistence costs for the boat are most  likely less than the campervan. I would say that balances up the costs a fair bit. 

 

So overall the offer of a swap seems not unreasonable to me .

 

My main concern from both sides of the fence would be whether the vehicle and boat are returned in the same condition at the start .

 

I'm not sure what costs you have been looking at for a motorhome but I can assure you it is a damn sight cheaper per annum than keeping a boat (and our boat was only 25ft, so not the most expensive to moor or licenceby any means) The cost of purchasing the van aside of course because values vary so much depending what exactly you decide to buy.

 

If you don't tie yourself to campsites for every night out then the costs get cheaper still.

 

The campervan offered here looks to be a good nearly new conversion on the very popular VW Transporter. It will be worth a great deal more than what Tony is suggesting. They are really very expensive for their size! 

 

No mention is made of what age narrowboat they would like to borrow. It is very conceivable that the van could well be worth more than the narrowboat.

 

https://www.swanswaygarages.com/vehicle-search/volkswagen-california-ocean-swb-204-ps-20-tdi-7sp-dsg-delivery-mileage-de24bho-1/?store=SWG014&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmaO4BhAhEiwA5p4YL-BiXJUW-WLdlOLfEKQ9P4dYVIOTGtyKiEjMXovwOZf_18fVHNm_iRoCd1gQAvD_BwE

Edited October 11 by Naughty Cal

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Still a big difference between that and "a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition" as requested by the OP. We also have no idea about its age and mileage, both of which affect the second hand price. My son recently bought a fairly new Fiat based van and paid nothing like that, and it was from a dealer.

 

The point is that it seems a very one-sided proposal, especially as money changing hands opens up another can of worms insurance, licence and BSS wise.

 

It seems it would cost just shy of £900 to hire such a van for a week in June 2025 while a nice narrowboat from Napton Narrowboats would cost between £1500 and well over £2000 for a similar period.

 

It cuts the other way too, it is very unlikely that the boat would suffer serious damage, it is far more likely that the van would have an accident and get written off. However careful the driver may be there are too many prats on the road to be sure that would not happen.

I thought it would be much greater risk to the boat owner

[Mac of Cygnet]

As this is a short-term swap, surely the costs of hiring a boat and a van are more relevant (taking insurance etc into account)  than the actual values?

[Naughty Cal]

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought it would be much greater risk to the boat owner

Why?

 

A van is just as easy to steal as a boat.

 

The boat only has a limited amount of water it can be on. The van could quite literally be anywhere in the world in two weeks! 

[Paul C]

Wouldn't one be security for the other?

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Wouldn't one be security for the other?

 That is where the relative prices come into the equation.

35 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought it would be much greater risk to the boat owner

 

It depends on upon what you define as a risk. The financial loss if the boat was stolen is likely to be greater, but the likelihood although small is not zero as the link I posted shows. The danger of mar damage or a total write-off would be greater for the van because narrowboats are very tough things, whereas a modern vehicle has been deliberately designed with crumple zones for safety and thin gauge steel & plastic for lightness and economy, so the danger of significant accidental damage must be far higher.

[Paul C]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 That is where the relative prices come into the equation.

 

This is where the plate comes into the equation. Without details such as age/mileage/model, it is difficult to accurately value.

[Naughty Cal]

20 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

This is where the plate comes into the equation. Without details such as age/mileage/model, it is difficult to accurately value.

Given that it is the latest model T6 (VW based rather than a Transit in a different overcoat) it is at most a few years old.

Edited October 12 by Naughty Cal

[matty40s]

On 10/10/2024 at 21:36, JohnnyandAnne said:

Hi folks.

Apologies if this post is not in the right place or is in some way against established protocols.

We are a senior (but very active) couple living in Cumbria.

We have a very nice, late model VW Campervan which we would be happy to swap for the use of a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition for a couple of weeks, or more in 2025. Dates to be decided.

Our van has all the usual equipment you would expect including, elevating roof, fridge, sink, gas hob, microwave, heating, solar panel for off-grid camping.

So let us know if you're interested please.

Johnny & Anne

Good luck with your plan, seems very reasonable, I hope you manage to find a  suitable swap.

[JohnnyandAnne]

Well thanks very much for all the input everyone! 

Seems like some are very concerned about legalities and the fairness of a potential campervan/boat holiday swap, understandably so.

We had already given the matter some serious thought before posting, but just to confirm what we're offering.........

A 2023 VW T6.1 Highline van, professionally converted.

For those curious, the value when new was around £60k. Oh, it includes a toilet too!

We recently spent 3 solid weeks away with only 2 nights on camp sites with facilities.

What we would like......

A canal Narrowboat, well equipped and in good condition, for 2 adults, for a period of around 2 or more weeks.

The material values of the campervan and Narrowboat are not our primary concern, we're not bothered if the boat offered is fairly old, condition and comfort are far more important.

We already have in mind a few practical things and procedures which would mitigate some potential risks. Mutual trust is probably the main requirement.

We've seen what we believe would be suitable boats for hire for around £1300 per week (in May 2025 as example). It seems the cost of camper/motorhome hire is not too dissimilar in comparison.

So, in the end we are happy to consider saving £2 -3 k , accepting accept some (hopefully minimal) risk. That's the deal I guess.

Anyone interested in our proposal should ideally send a personal message, if that's possible.

Thanks, Johnny.

 

 

[Gybe Ho]

On 11/10/2024 at 10:38, Tony Brooks said:

 

Still a big difference between that and "a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition" as requested by the OP.

 

 

When I started discussing my plan to fitout a new narrowboat shell, every man, woman and dog on this forum barked in unison and strenuously told me I should buy "a nice, well equipped Narrowboat in good condition" for about £60k to £80k. The asset value gap between a narrowboat and tidy VW camper is somewhat less than the £180k that you first suggested.

 

I reckon the chance of damage is greater for the narrowboat since we are all experienced road drivers and I doubt the OP can say the same about being the captain of a narrowboat.

 

I understand many narrowboaters are attracted to the RV lifestyle and I know there are dual mode continuous cruisers and motorhome owners. The OP should get some interest, the risk for the narrowboat owner is an operating mishaps due to the complexity of all aspects of narrowboat navigation along the Cut and the risk for the OP is that many offers will be for older narrow boats that fall below the domestic expectations of the owners of a clean & tidy looking campervan.

[haggis]

11 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 The OP should get some interest, the risk for the narrowboat owner is an operating mishaps due to the complexity of all aspects of narrowboat navigation along the Cut

I think the biggest risk for the narrow boat owner is that the boat " disappears" and is altered and repainted to the extent that it is unrecognisable and is never seen again 

[Gybe Ho]

17 minutes ago, haggis said:

 

I think the biggest risk for the narrow boat owner is that the boat " disappears" and is altered and repainted to the extent that it is unrecognisable and is never seen again 

 

That would be difficult to engineer, there are only so many bookable floating paint docks on the system.

 

If I were to offer a narrowboat for such a swap I would suggest a few zoom calls and mutual video boat tours. I would also require an extended 3 day handover where the RVer would park up overnight near the mooring and get some extended operating experience under supervision.

 

It would be difficult for a criminal mastermind to maintain a false identity over three days of tuition and social interaction. I should know, my employee number is 008, yet after decades of training in Cheltenham and Hereford @magnetman rumbled my false identity on this forum in less than a week.

[haggis]

23 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

That would be difficult to engineer, there are only so many bookable floating paint docks on the system.

 

@magnetman

Many boats are painted canal side so no one would bother if someone started painting a boat . It is pretty the first thing a thief does.

[Graham Davis]

29 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

That would be difficult to engineer, there are only so many bookable floating paint docks on the system.

 

If I were to offer a narrowboat for such a swap I would suggest a few zoom calls and mutual video boat tours. I would also require an extended 3 day handover where the RVer would park up overnight near the mooring and get some extended operating experience under supervision.

 

It would be difficult for a criminal mastermind to maintain a false identity over three days of tuition and social interaction. I should know, my employee number is 008, yet after decades of training in Cheltenham and Hereford @magnetman rumbled my false identity on this forum in less than a week.

 

Yet it has happened several times, many of which have been discussed on here.
And it doesn't need a "floating paint dock" to repaint a boat, all it needs is a section of towpath. Many owners paint their boats in that manner.