Plywood Flooring - Creaking

[Michael Siggers]

Good Evening

 

Hope everyone is well.

 

I would just like to get thoughts on the following with my Plywood floor

 

I have now been on my boat for a year and all has been good so far. Some great cruises done this year and aiming to do more next year. Need to stop work getting in the way

 

Anyway, the plywood floor is 18mm and from all the examinations I have undertaken using all the access hatches it appears to be in very good shape. It even has insulation on the underside. No signs of any damp or degradation. The boat is 24 years old. The floor finish has been updated in a number of areas, mainly the kitchen and bathroom.

 

Just recently, I have noticed that the floor area in the bathroom has started to creak and make various noises when walking on. The floor finish is Vinyl wood effect tile directly onto the plywood. Attached is a photo for reference.

 

As well as being annoying, it is causing me concern. I do think the floor has been 'messed' with mainly during the reconfiguration of the bathroom, to get the waste for the shower in etc.

 

My initial thinking is that the fixings securing the plywood to the bearers need to be tightened and maybe more installing.

 

I have lived in houses where the flooring creaks and it never bothered me, but for some reason, on the boat, it's causing me stress.

 

I can add extra fixings although I would need to remove the vinyl, which is no big pain. I would update the flooring with new vinyl.

 

I would like other people thoughts. For example, am I the only owner who has a creaky floor or does this happen fairly often?

 

It does seem to have got slightly worse now the temperatures have dropped with autumn/winter. I can never remember whether internal joinery shrinks or expand in winter.

 

Anyway, any thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 6, 2024 by Michael Siggers
Spelling mistakes

[pearley]

The floor on our widebeam creaks. In different places depending on temperature. It's 18mm ply but the heaters are too far apart in my opinion.

 

I had thought of drilling holes in various places and blowing some expanded foam in but can't be bothered.

 

Edited October 6, 2024 by pearley

[Michael Siggers]

Thank you @pearley for the reply.

 

That's an idea to add to my other ideas.

 

Mike

[MtB]

I think you have two options having seen your photo. (Looks great by the way!)

 

1) Put up with it. 

Or:

2) Lift that nice floor covering and inspect everything underneath supporting it. It will get destroyed in the process. 

 

 

[system 4-50]

How do you access the shower waste trap?

[MtB]

44 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

How do you access the shower waste trap?

 

By lifting off that 5" diameter chrome trap cover in the corner of the shower tray.

 

These have been in almost universal use since about 1990! 

 

 

[Michael Siggers]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

I think you have two options having seen your photo. (Looks great by the way!)

 

1) Put up with it. 

Or:

2) Lift that nice floor covering and inspect everything underneath supporting it. It will get destroyed in the process. 

 

 

Aye, that's what I was thinking. Maybe put up with it until I decide to change the flooring and then kill the to birds with one stone.

 

I think being a small space makes it sound worse than it is. In the house I had, even though the floor creaked, (was an old house), because the rooms were larger, it seemed not so loud.

 

Mike

[BEngo]

If you don't  fancy lifting it all, dust the whole thing generously with talcum powder. Choose the flavour carefully!  Leave for a week's use then hoover up the surplus.

N

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Michael Siggers said:

I think being a small space makes it sound worse than it is. In the house I had, even though the floor creaked, (was an old house), because the rooms were larger, it seemed not so loud.

 

Having a shedload of experience with houses, creaking floors are usually where chipboard floor panels are nailed down instead of screwed, i.e. all of them! After the new house dries out properly, the chipboard slides up and down the nail shaft a few thou and makes a horrendous creaking noise as it does it. Driving in a screw next to each nail stops it totally. Done this in so many houses! Maybe something similar is happening in your boat. 

 

 

[Michael Siggers]

Luckily I can confirm the boards have been screwed down as the screws are visible in various accessible locations where the Vinyl flooring is absent.

 

I'm thinking that because the floor may be been removed, or sections at least, to allow pipework to be reconfigured, maybe not enough screws were used when relaying it. I do tend to over engineer things though, so if I do this in the future, all the screws in the UK will be used

 

Mike

[blackrose]

Screws can snap when there's differential thermal expansion and contraction or if the boat has been taken out the water and flexed a bit.

 

The floor on my widebeam creaks and moves a few mm in a couple of places. It used to bother me but then I got used to it. If it really bothers you lift up the vinyl, inspect the subfloor for damp and if it's ok just put some extra screws in following the other screws which indicate where the bearers are underneath.

Edited October 6, 2024 by blackrose

[system 4-50]

18 hours ago, MtB said:

 

By lifting off that 5" diameter chrome trap cover in the corner of the shower tray.

 

These have been in almost universal use since about 1990! 

 

 

Ok, I meant accessing the pipework into the waste trap...

[Tonka]

19 hours ago, BEngo said:

If you don't  fancy lifting it all, dust the whole thing generously with talcum powder. Choose the flavour carefully!  Leave for a week's use then hoover up the surplus.

N

Which will cause cancer

Nice

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

Which will cause cancer

Nice

I think talcum powder is different now 

[agg221]

How close either side is there an inspection hatch? I always have a nagging doubt with bathrooms and sealed floors that something nasty may be going on underneath due to the presence of so much plumbing. If there is a hatch fairly close either side and you can poke a cheap endoscope down there to have a look, that should confirm there is no damp and it's just a bit loose, in which case I think I would probably live with it. When you finally do replace the floor, I would be inclined to do it in such a way that the vinyl can be lifted to inspect what is going on easily.

 

Btw, I very much like your current floor - I will have to keep a lookout for those tiles.

 

Alec

[MtB]

3 hours ago, agg221 said:

If there is a hatch fairly close either side and you can poke a cheap endoscope down there to have a look, that should confirm there is no damp and it's just a bit loose, in which case I think I would probably live with it.

 

 

Seconded. Or even drill a 10mm hole straight through the floor to poke the endoscope through. Then plug it with silicone or something. Choose the location carefully and it will be un-noticeable afterwards.

 

I too think the floor looks great! 

 

 

[Michael Siggers]

Thank you @MtB and @agg221

 

Luckily there are a couple of access points very close. One at the side of the shower to get to the Whalegulper and under the floor in that area. Can see under the tray and the shower waste itself, along with bearer on top of steel member. Floor is all good there. Other one is on the other side and again all pipe joints are OK and void is all good. (Fingers crossed it stays that way).

 

I have actually got an endoscope and it has been so useful. Used it when I bought the boat to poke in every possible access hole and void. Used it under the floor to check, and still do periodically to keep an eye on it. (Sad I know 😃).

 

Good advice with the future floor too. Thank you.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

[MtB]

48 minutes ago, Michael Siggers said:

Used it when I bought the boat to poke in every possible access hole and void. Used it under the floor to check, and still do periodically to keep an eye on it. (Sad I know 😃).

 

Not sad at all. A more accurate term would be "Looking after your boat".

 

 

[Bramangie]

My new boat built recently by a very experienced boat builder insisted on putting the floor bearers 30” apart throughout the boat . I wanted these at 24” but bowed to his experience. After fitting the 18mm marine ply floor screwed well down and sealed I noticed the floor creaked and bowed downward slightly when walked on. I should have strongly insisted he put the bearers at 24” and fitted 24mm ply . The floor will be covered by T&G oak flooring either crossways or longways . Hopefully this will cure this very annoying issue.

love your bathroom floor but not your shallow shower tray . 

[robtheplod]

On 06/10/2024 at 22:00, BEngo said:

If you don't  fancy lifting it all, dust the whole thing generously with talcum powder. Choose the flavour carefully!  Leave for a week's use then hoover up the surplus.

N

isnt this stuff nasty to the lungs?

[blackrose]

18 minutes ago, Bramangie said:

My new boat built recently by a very experienced boat builder insisted on putting the floor bearers 30” apart throughout the boat . I wanted these at 24” but bowed to his experience. After fitting the 18mm marine ply floor screwed well down and sealed I noticed the floor creaked and bowed downward slightly when walked on. I should have strongly insisted he put the bearers at 24” and fitted 24mm ply . The floor will be covered by T&G oak flooring either crossways or longways . Hopefully this will cure this very annoying issue.

love your bathroom floor but not your shallow shower tray . 

 

30"? Where did that spacing come from? Even 24" sounds a bit wide. I thought 18" was "standard"?

 

My boat built by a very budget boat builder placed them 18" apart and used 18mm ply for the floor. 

[Bramangie]

Dave Harris built the boat but his meanness on certain issues was certainly noticeable. Sadly these traditional boat builders have virtually all retired now however Dave Ross at Brinklow BS and David Kemp at Stourbridge  still build great strong and sturdy boats 👍👍👍👍

[blackrose]

11 minutes ago, Bramangie said:

Dave Harris built the boat but his meanness on certain issues was certainly noticeable. Sadly these traditional boat builders have virtually all retired now however Dave Ross at Brinklow BS and David Kemp at Stourbridge  still build great strong and sturdy boats 👍👍👍👍

 

The thing is that those floor bearers aren't just floor bearers, they also form the scantlings and part of the structural strength of the hull. So I thought 18" was the industry standard not only to prevent a creaky wooden subfloor. At least that was my understanding, but I might be wrong.

[Bramangie]

I think 24” is the accepted industry norm and yes as they form part or foot of the hull side scantlings then it all helps to maintain the boat’s strength.

I do have a keel in place on the boat’s base but these are rare in today’s boatbuilders.  Without doubt the strongest boat I have viewed has to be an RW Davis Northwich Trader boat. Great steelwork but deep drafted and very hard on the tiller when steering. 
it’s all about compromise when having a boat built . Getting a near perfect boat is near on impossible. 

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Bramangie said:

I think 24” is the accepted industry norm and yes as they form part or foot of the hull side scantlings then it all helps to maintain the boat’s strength.

I do have a keel in place on the boat’s base but these are rare in today’s boatbuilders.  Without doubt the strongest boat I have viewed has to be an RW Davis Northwich Trader boat. Great steelwork but deep drafted and very hard on the tiller when steering. 
it’s all about compromise when having a boat built . Getting a near perfect boat is near on impossible. 

If I'm counting correctly, the hull scantlings on mine (which is pretty solidly built -- Tim Tyler -- looking at other photos) look to be at 30" spacing -- 18 of them would cover 43' of a 60' hull, which looks about right given the swims.

 

I don't have a photo of the floor bearers before the floor went down but going by how solid the floor feels I very much doubt they're at 30" spacing, there must be some intermediate (or longitudinal?) bearers.