CRT Licence Conumdrum

[Cancunia]

Does anyone have a suggestion for the best (cheapest) way to get a CRT licence under the following circumstances?

I don't currently have a narrowboat, a mooring or a licence but am buying a boat in the next couple of weeks before the end of October.

I need to move the boat via the Trent & Mersea canal to a winter mooring at Sawley, it will be moored at Sawley for the winter and then probably for at least part of the summer while I do some local cruising. My winter mooring contract starts on the 1st November. Sawley have informed me that I do need a licence even if I'm moored there and don't go out onto the canal, so I'm looking at a 12 month licence.

As I understand things, I can have a 'Rivers Only' 'Home Mooring' licence when I'm at Sawley but what is the cheapest way to licence my boat from the T&M onto the Trent?

 

Suggestions Welcome.

Edited October 5 by Cancunia

[Paul C]

You can buy a short term standard licence for a week (or a month) to cover the canal portion of the trip.

[nicknorman]

I think you will have to buy the rivers only licence, and then a short term “add on” visitor licence for you canal trip.

 

This from CRT website:

“Short term & visitor licences are not for boats floating in marinas or moorings connected to Canal & River Trust managed waters, except for 'rivers only' licence holders extending their licence to cover a short term cruise on canals.“

Edited October 5 by nicknorman

[peterboat]

Just now, nicknorman said:

I think you will have to buy a full canals and rivers licence initially. I am pretty sure (but please do check with CRT licensing people) that you can then “downgrade” it to a rivers only licence and get some money back, once you reach the river Trent.

They could buy a months rover licence to move and then a rivers only licence?

[nicknorman]

Just now, peterboat said:

They could buy a months rover licence to move and then a rivers only licence?

I changed my post!

[Momac]

 

[Paul C]

50 minutes ago, peterboat said:

They could buy a months rover licence to move and then a rivers only licence?

 

Our 30 day 'explorer' licence is only available to trailable boats and visitors with a home mooring on another non Canal & River Trust navigation.

[David Mack]

You could get a boat mover with trade plates to move it for you. But that might cost more than a CRT licence!

[peterboat]

28 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Our 30 day 'explorer' licence is only available to trailable boats and visitors with a home mooring on another non Canal & River Trust navigation.

As yet we don't know where the boats moored? Mine is at Beverley so we can use that license. Maybe an easier method if the boat is on CRT waters, is ask the previous owner to keep it licensed whilst in transit? Then license it when a Sawley 

[Alan de Enfield]

You say you are coming 'via the T&M' so where is it now, is it on C&RT waters ?

[PaulD]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You say you are coming 'via the T&M' so where is it now, is it on C&RT waters ?

At the ”far end” of the T&M according to the OP posts about anchors.

[Alan de Enfield]

I don't understand why he is being so coy - (its like saying to the Doctor, can you help me but I'm not telling you where the pain is)

The 'far end of the T&M' is the Bridgewater Canal.

 

Do we asume it has a BSS, and is currently insured ?

 

If it is on C&RT waters, presumably it is licenced.

The easiest / cheapest way would be for the seller to 'loan' the boat to the buyer for a few days before he notifies C&RT of the sale and cancels the licence.

 

If it is on a Bridgewater licence then different options can be found.

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

As yet we don't know where the boats moored? Mine is at Beverley so we can use that license. Maybe an easier method if the boat is on CRT waters, is ask the previous owner to keep it licensed whilst in transit? Then license it when a Sawley 

 

True, but it doesn't change the validity of the explorer licence. The OP doesn't have a mooring (nor a boat) at the moment, and the previous owner's licence or mooring location is irrelevant since the new owner can't licence it based on that mooring.

 

It would help to know the location and planned date of purchase, there's obvious complications if its before the mooring starts (would need a CC licence). There's also complications if its currently on Bridgewater Canal.

[mrsmelly]

The best way to do it would be to quietly move it down to Sawley. I doubt it will be checked. Just ensure you don't ask any questions on any internet forums or suchlike.

[Momac]

Maybe suggestions should stick to options that follow the correct procedure and are free of risk.

 

[Gybe Ho]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I think you will have to buy the rivers only licence, and then a short term “add on” visitor licence for you canal trip.

 

 

About £105 for a month with the 50% discount for the holder of a river license plus the cost of the wasted month buying the river license earlier than the end of delivery arrival date.

18 minutes ago, Momac said:

Maybe suggestions should stick to options that follow the correct procedure and are free of risk.

 

 

Most of us consider money leaving our bank account to be a risk best avoided.

 

In similar previous discussions some have suggested sticking two fingers up to officialdom because the worst the CRT can do is order that the vessel be removed from the system within a month.

 

My feeling is that delivery trips are stressful enough without the additional burden of feeling like a fugitive on the run.

[Momac]

22 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

My feeling is that delivery trips are stressful enough without the additional burden of feeling like a fugitive on the run.

Not just a fugitive but an uninsured fugitive.

Insurance (very likely) requires compliance with local regulations and that includes a valid license.

 

[Cancunia]

To answer another post further up, I'm not being coy just generalising in case my post is of use to others in a similar situation.

The boat is on the T&M currently near to the far end and needs to travel along most of the T&M before it goes onto the Trent near to Shardlow and then to Sawley. I've mentioned the destination so it's clearly past the Derwent mouth, not on the T&M at the end. 

 

I'm new to the CRT, Narrowboats etc and don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the CRT. In any case, the change of ownership plus the sudden mooring relocation would probably attract attention. Once the boat sale nears completion next week ,I'll be in touch with the CRT to get their take on things. Plenty of ideas from the above posts so will report back on what is actually agreed. 

Edited October 5 by Cancunia

[Paul C]

Thanks for the update, will be good to hear what CRT advise in your situation.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

 My friend had the same predicament moving her new boat to her home mooring. CaRT would not issue her a home mooring licence as it would take 2 weeks to check/process so they would only issue her a Continuous Cruising licence for the move, saying once her HM was processed it would just be a case of transferring the licence over. Turned into a nightmare. They never transferred anything over, they now said they would have to cancel the CC and start a new MH licence and she had to pay a full month CC licence plus £30 admin. Which she did, but they still took her CC licence Direct Debit out for 2 month after her Home Mooring licence was issued, so paying 2x licence fees for the same boat.

 She couldn’t cancel the DD as both licences were on the same reference with her bank. CaRT’s response to the payments being debited was to say they would credit her account the CC fee’s, a bit late when the cash had gone. She took this to CaRT complainants and they eventually reimbursed the money not credit.

 The problem she found was that every time she phoned Licensing to discuss and sort things out, she talked to a different operator, most of whom never knew the Continuous licence or Home Mooring licence procedures. 
 You are sort of different as you have not committed to a long term Home Mooring but only a short term Winter Mooring.

 You’re only at Sawley Winter Mooring as you say. So will Sawley Marina say you have a short term mooring only and not a Long term Home Mooring?
 Maybe you won’t be able to stay till the Summer months and you will have to leave March/April like a lot of Winter Mooring arrangements. 

This may also mean CaRT will only issue you a Continuous Cruising licence once you’re even at Sawley.

 This CCing and HMing licence procedure is all new, so will be interesting to what happens in your case. Good luck 👍

 

Edited October 5 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Cancunia]

Thanks for the info @BoatinglifeupNorth. I will talk with CRT in detail next week and try to get some solid commitments from them via email in case I get into a similar situation.

[Gybe Ho]

10 minutes ago, Cancunia said:

Thanks for the info @BoatinglifeupNorth. I will talk with CRT in detail next week and try to get some solid commitments from them via email in case I get into a similar situation.

 The sorry admin saga recounted by @BoatinglifeupNorth justifies a covert move.

 

There is a notion of hiding in plain sight. Why not helm in a santa costume, festoon your boat in fairy lights and play Christmas music loudly on a PA system during the delivery trip. CRT inspectors will be so bemused they will forget to log your boat name.

[Cancunia]

2 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 The sorry admin saga recounted by @BoatinglifeupNorth justifies a covert move.

 

There is a notion of hiding in plain sight. Why not helm in a santa costume, festoon your boat in fairy lights and play Christmas music loudly on a PA system during the delivery trip. CRT inspectors will be so bemused they will forget to log your boat name.

While I like the idea , I somehow doubt it'll work as there will complaints to the CRT from those sleeping on their boat as I pass by. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

19 minutes ago, Cancunia said:

Thanks for the info @BoatinglifeupNorth. I will talk with CRT in detail next week and try to get some solid commitments from them via email in case I get into a similar situation.

It may just be a case that you’ll have to get a CC licence without committing to a long term home mooring at Sawley?

and CaRT may only offer you that?

 I know my friends situation was slightly different as she had a long term home mooring, but she was told so much contradicting information by the phone operators it got fustrating. Let us know what they say with your situation having only a short term Marina mooring. Good luck👍

[Cancunia]

5 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

It may just be a case that you’ll have to get a CC licence without committing to a long term home mooring at Sawley?

and CaRT may only offer you that?

 I know my friends situation was slightly different as she had a long term home mooring, but she was told so much contradicting information by the phone operators it got fustrating. Let us know what they say with your situation having only a short term Marina mooring. Good luck👍

Just like your friend, I got 4 different answers from 4 different calls to CRT on Friday which is why I posted today. The CRT T's & C's say that the the home mooring licence can only be issued when there is a mooring agreement for a minimum of 6 months. My agreement with Sawley is for 6 months so I should qualify. If that becomes a problem, I do also have an offer from Sawley to take out a Leisure mooring for the summer in addition. As I intend to do this anyway I might take that out now if CRT get difficult.