Boat Safety Scheme Certificate BSSC/BSC requirements changes

[Ronaldo47]

5 hours ago, wakey_wake said:

.........

Also I believed Kidde was a reputable brand (also in 2021), but I know brands get bought and then ensh🙊tified. Take Pyrex for example.

 

Proper Pyrex glass is still used for scientific glassware, but a cheaper heat-resistant glass was substituted for domestic Pyrex-branded  products a couple of decades ago. 

Edited March 24 by Ronaldo47
Typos

[wakey_wake]

53 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I don't see any 'scope creep' at all. If one accepts that fire extinguishers should be on board a boat then why not a smoke alarm? You may not want fire extinguishers either of course?

 

That's a fair argument, but

 

Quote

The first automatic electric fire alarm was patented in 1890 [...]

The first single-station smoke detector was invented in 1970 [...] It cost about US$125

-- Wikipedia

 

The BSS is newer than smoke alarms, and I believe also newer than the common adoption of smoke alarm in houses per recommendation of UK fire services.

In previous revisions there must have been some reason not to mandate them, which isn't clear to me [ and I confess I'm too lazy to go research it ].

 

What changed? The scope. It's creeping.

 

Maybe it's valid creep. Maybe it was an oversight to omit them earlier?

Maybe the committee knew then, what we know now, that some people simply cannot be compelled to leave a smoke alarm where it should be but will instead put it in a drawer to save the battery and noise. You can't change those people by more regulation.

 

(as above, I have approx one per 20ft of boat and not averse to more)

[Momac]

Smoke alarms and CO alarms in houses may well be recommended but are  not mandatory in England.

Thank goodness  a house in England does not need the equivalent of a BSS examination.

But also thank goodness for annual MOT tests on cars. I have had a few  surprise MOT failures over the years.

Maybe inland waterways boats fall somewhere in between houses and  cars from a MOT/BSS perspective .

 

[cuthound]

On 24/03/2026 at 15:16, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

The part 2 is the one approved for boats, but, when the BSS first came out they did not seem to know there was a Part 1 and a Part2 and were happy with Part 1 alarms being fitted - now they are stuck with them until they break / wear out which is why they say replace them with the Part 2 alarm.

 

I suspect most of the Part 1 tested CO Detectors would pass Part 2, but the manufacturers have decided that given the small market for boats, it is just not worth the expense of submitting them for approval.

[ditchcrawler]

50 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I suspect most of the Part 1 tested CO Detectors would pass Part 2, but the manufacturers have decided that given the small market for boats, it is just not worth the expense of submitting them for approval.

What is recommended for caravans/motorhomes? do you know?

[GUMPY]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

What is recommended for caravans/motorhomes? do you know?

 

 

BS EN 50291-2:2019

Edited March 25 by GUMPY

[cuthound]

14 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

What is recommended for caravans/motorhomes? do you know?

 

No, sorry, perhaps @Naughty Cal can advise?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

No, sorry, perhaps @Naughty Cal can advise?

 

When I fitted the new kitchen in the camper, the "Gas Man" said I needed bigger holes in the floor, a bigger hole in the gas locker floor, and a CO alarm (no mention of a Smoke alarm, but I fitted both.

[GUMPY]

My caravan Smoke and CO alarms were flagged at the yearly inspection as going out of date this year so they have been replaced.

 

https://amzn.eu/d/0c9HgjcA

https://amzn.eu/d/0brKsLxf

 

Both need batteries every year but that will drop in as part of the yearly inspection.

[Momac]

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

My caravan Smoke and CO alarms were flagged at the yearly inspection as going out of date this year so they have been replaced.

 

Is that  yearly inspection mandatory or voluntary ?

[GUMPY]

52 minutes ago, Momac said:

Is that  yearly inspection mandatory or voluntary ?

A bit of both really.

You don't have to have it done however if you don't then any warranty from the manufacturer is null and void.

It's far more than a BSS, it includes a service on the running gear as well as gas and electrical testing. Also includes a damp test to see if the caravan is leaking, as many do.

It's more the equivalent of a survey than a BSS.

Cost is about £200-250 depends on who does it.

Worth it as far as I am concerned.

 

Edited March 26 by GUMPY

[wakey_wake]

I got confused in the rainbow of standard numbers, and went diving...

 

2 hours ago, GUMPY said:

My caravan Smoke and CO alarms were flagged at the yearly inspection as going out of date this year so they have been replaced.

 

https://amzn.eu/d/0c9HgjcA

https://amzn.eu/d/0brKsLxf

Amazon promises "Certified to BS EN14604:2005" for the smoke alarm and "BS EN 50291-1:2018 and BS EN 50291-2:2019" for the CO. 👍

 

I was confused about the different standard numbers, because it didn't match what I remembered from earlier 

On 24/03/2026 at 15:11, ditchcrawler said:

Did the BSS inspector mention the certification 

"If you already have a Kitemarked alarm, tested to BS EN 50291, or 50291-1, the advice is to keep it, test it routinely and when it needs replacing, choose a unit tested to BS EN 50291-2.

 

but this page https://www.aico.co.uk/blog/the-increase-in-non-compliant-alarms/ clarifies the three relevant BS EN nnnn standards as

• BS EN 14604:2005  domestic smoke alarms
• (BS 5446-2:2003  heat alarms, which we have not discussed here)
• BS EN 50291-1:2018  carbon monoxide

so the article appears out of date with respect to BS EN 50291-2:2019, despite being written in 2022? Or the "-2" was considered irrelevant for their purposes in the article? At least it tells us something about what is different from BS EN 50291 to BS EN 50291-1:2018 .

 

Who are Aico? They seem to be a reputable alarm manufacturer (at least) but I had not heard of them before, or had forgotten them.

 

They make an Ei208 model, which promises "BS EN 50291-1:2018 / BS EN 50291-2:2019 / KM 86596".

 

They have a nice page https://www.aico.co.uk/technical-support/standards-regulations/ showing where standards, regulations and legislation meet, but it seems not to extend explicitly to boats or BS EN 50291-2.

 

Related(?) is "BS EN 50292:2023 offers recommendations on the installation and maintenance of Carbon Monoxide alarms" at https://www.aico.co.uk/technical-support/standards-regulations/carbon-monoxide-british-standard-bs-en-502922023/ , by comparison to 50291 which is for the detector itself.

 

 

Bottom line of course is to stick with the BSS, but I am also interested in what these things actually mean for me.

[David Mack]

Why not check with bsi?

https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/products/electrical-apparatus-for-the-detection-of-carbon-monoxide-in-domestic-premises-electrical-apparatus-for-continuous-operation-in-a-fixed-installation-in-recreational-vehicles-and-similar-premises-including-recreational-craft-additional-test

 

What is BS EN 50291-2 - Carbon monoxide gas detection apparatus about?  

BS EN 50291-2 specifies general requirements for the construction, testing, and performance of electrically operated carbon monoxide gas detection apparatus, designed for continuous operation in a fixed installation in recreational vehicles and similar premises including recreational craft. 

BS EN 50291-2 specifies apparatus designed to operate in the event of an escape of carbon monoxide and to provide visual and audible alarms only (Type B of EN 50291-1) or to provide visual and audible alarms and executive action in the form of an output signal that can actuate directly or indirectly a shut-off device and/or other ancillary devices (Type A of EN 50291-1). 

Note: BS EN 50291-2 excludes apparatus 

• For the detection of combustible gases, other than carbon monoxide itself 
• For the detection of CO in industrial installations (see EN 45544-1, EN 45544-2 and EN 45544-3) or commercial premises 
• For CO measurement for smoke and fire detection 

[wakey_wake]

47 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Why not check with bsi?

https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/products/electrical-apparatus-for-the-detection-of-carbon-monoxide-in-domestic-premises-electrical-apparatus-for-continuous-operation-in-a-fixed-installation-in-recreational-vehicles-and-similar-premises-including-recreational-craft-additional-test

Thanks for finding it, but I didn't learn much from it.

 

The literal answer is partly "because my curiosity does not stretch to £142", and also partly because I expected a significant cost to see the standard itself so didn't consider looking towards the horse's mouth.

 

47 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What is BS EN 50291-2 - Carbon monoxide gas detection apparatus about?  

BS EN 50291-2 specifies general requirements for the construction, testing, and performance of electrically operated carbon monoxide gas detection apparatus, designed for continuous operation in a fixed installation in recreational vehicles and similar premises including recreational craft. 

They don't give much away. I wondered what it is about boats and RVs that makes detection and warning of CO in them different from brickboats, and I am none the wiser. 😞

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, wakey_wake said:

I wondered what it is about boats and RVs that makes detection and warning of CO in them different from brickboats, and I am none the wiser.

 

My guess would be vibration, movement, large temperature changes and (potential) impacts.

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

My guess would be vibration, movement, large temperature changes and (potential) impacts.

Smaller spaces, meaning the concentration of CO can rise more rapidly than in a house.

And perhaps a greater propensity to use appliances which can generate CO, allied with shorter flues meaning a greater likelihood of CO in the living space.

[GUMPY]

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/category/british-standards-for-co-alarms-explained

 

[wakey_wake]

15 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/category/british-standards-for-co-alarms-explained

🎉

 

Quote

In general terms it can be considered that alarms conforming to [ BS EN 50291-2:2019 ] are more robust than alarms simply carrying the part one kitemark.

 

So I might consider that over time the running of the engine, which is the only thing that often shakes the boat much, could damage it. 👍

 

That is what I needed to know, thank you all.

[David Mack]

23 minutes ago, wakey_wake said:

the engine, which is the only thing that often shakes the boat much, could damage it. 

Apart from when you run into a solid bank at some speed (we've all done it).

[LadyG]

On 24/03/2026 at 00:06, blackrose said:

 

So can you smell smoke and react quickly when you're in a deep sleep?:

 

I have 2 different smoke alarms on my boat, optical and ionisation and I never get false alarms unless I burn toast or something else in the kitchen.

 

I have a smoke alarm which is above cooker which can be disabled for a short time by pressing a button. So it wont go off if you are burning food but at the gas cooker.

 I have the latest Hi tech Kidde CO monitor in the saloon and another one at my bedhead. I also crack open window near the stove to allow fresh air in, promoting thru ventilation.

If a lot of smoke from stove I open windows wide. Its surprising how much foul air can accumulate at head height in the saloon. The air needs to be changed more frequently than is often achieved by vents alone.

Just now, LadyG said:

I have a smoke alarm which is above cooker which can be disabled for a short time by pressing a button. So it wont go off if you are burning food but at the gas cooker.

 I have the latest Hi tech Kidde CO monitor in the saloon and another one at my bedhead. I also crack open window near the stove to allow fresh air in, promoting thru ventilation.

If a lot of smoke from stove I open windows wide. Its surprising how much foul air can accumulate at head height in the saloon. The air needs to be changed more frequently than is often achieved by vents alone.

They are cheap, and the danger of live fire is greater than in the house. 

[wakey_wake]

9 hours ago, David Mack said:

Apart from when you run into a solid bank at some speed (we've all done it).

Around here I would probably have to use a bridge hole for that - banks are mostly mushy.

There are also hireboats which could help with that sort of thing, but so far they've only had time to test the mooring pins.

Been there too. 😇

 

It raises the question "how many Gs can a BS EN 50291-2:2019 alarm repeatedly take?" which may or may not be answerable for a mere £142.

 

Tech specs for vibration and shock tolerance aren't absolute - this one is for coddling on walls of houses, that one can take anything. For computer hard drives of the spinny persuasion there are usually max G force parked and lower max G force when running, which correspond to a drop height onto a hard surface. Then there is usually an amplitude of vibration in frequency range or something?

 

However I'm not about to earn myself a PhD in differential sensitivity of CO alarms aged in all of { houses, occasional use boats, well-hammered hireboats, lump water boats } and I'm certainly not calibrating myself up a CO source for some adhoc tests.

[ditchcrawler]

On 24/03/2026 at 11:15, ditchcrawler said:

That is my gripe as well, I have two smoke and two CO detectors onboard, but if the BS get this what next, Mandatory Lifejackets CRT wear them all the time. Kill cords on the engine like jet skis so you can't revers over your self. 

Here is one I didn't think of as a possible BSS check that just came up on Facebook as part of another discussion where I have ruffled a couple of feathers 

 The Friendly Narrowboat And Waterways Group... | Is this safe? My neighbours seem to always have their electric hook up under water and i do know that boats suffer more from galvanic corrosion when n... | Notifications | Facebook

 

Edited March 27 by ditchcrawler

[GUMPY]

38 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Here is one I didn't think of as a possible BSS check that just came up on Facebook as part of another discussion where I have ruffled a couple of feathers 

 The Friendly Narrowboat And Waterways Group... | Is this safe? My neighbours seem to always have their electric hook up under water and i do know that boats suffer more from galvanic corrosion when n... | Notifications | Facebook

 

A compulsory isolation transformer would be better😉 

Fekin eejits

[Up-Side-Down]

I'd be interested to know how this would mitigate against third party risk .......

[IanD]

Just now, Up-Side-Down said:

I'd be interested to know how this would mitigate against third party risk .......

Same principle as masks for Covid, it protects others more than it protects you... 😉 

 

(no GA/IT means only your boat is at risk from others who leak current, but lots of other boats are at risk if yours does...)