Grounding queery

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Check out the 12 Volt Boating Group on Facebook.  You’ll get plenty of informed and courteous replies to your question there. 👍

 

 

Even so, I bet the exact same OP question asked on there would get the same requests for more information before any half-sensible answers get be put forward. 

[truckcab79]

Very possibly but the tone is altogether less alienating and more people use it so I find it a far more approachable and far more informed resource. 

[tree monkey]

25 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Very possibly but the tone is altogether less alienating and more people use it so I find it a far more approachable and far more informed resource. 

 

I have been critical about how the forum deals with new members in the past but this bloke just spat his dummy out because people were asking sensible questions to help answer the issue, there was no 'tone' in this case.

 

I sometimes wonder if people are primed to expect abuse because I have often heard peeps in real life discussing the forum and often it is in terms of how argumentative and snarky the place is

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

 

I have been critical about how the forum deals with new members in the past but this bloke just spat his dummy out because people were asking sensible questions to help answer the issue, there was no 'tone' in this case.

 

I sometimes wonder if people are primed to expect abuse because I have often heard peeps in real life discussing the forum and often it is in terms of how argumentative and snarky the place is

 

Maybe the reason people in real life talk about the forum being like that is -- well, that it often *is* like that?

 

In which case it's hardly surprising that people are "primed to expect abuse", because in many cases that's exactly what they're going to get, especially if they ask questions as someone with little knowledge about the canals. Unfortunately the attitude of some posters is to berate them about how stupid they are rather than trying to educate them... 😞 

Edited October 8, 2024 by IanD

[truckcab79]

30 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Maybe the reason people in real life talk about the forum being like that is -- well, that it often *is* like that?

 

In which case it's hardly surprising that people are "primed to expect abuse", because in many cases that's exactly what they're going to get, especially if they ask questions as someone with little knowledge about the canals. Unfortunately the attitude of some posters is to berate them about how stupid they are rather than trying to educate them... 😞 

 

Bang on. I’ve lost count of how many newbies I’ve seen come and go in minutes in the year I’ve been on here. Everybody loses from that. 
 

 

41 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

 

there was no 'tone' in this case.

 

 

If you can’t read the negative tone in those replies then you’re tone deaf to be honest.  Perhaps you’ve  read too much of it and think it’s normal.
 

Forums are odd places. Most wouldn’t dream of taking to someone like that face to face but give them anonymity and a keyboard and they’re all big boys. 
 

 

[nicknorman]

17 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

 

Bang on. I’ve lost count of how many newbies I’ve seen come and go in minutes in the year I’ve been on here. Everybody loses from that. 
 

 

Nobody on here loses from entitled stupid arrogant people asking illiterate and incomprehensible questions jabbed into a phone without any thought for who they are talking to (and that it is a discussion forum, not a free professional advice service) and then sulking as soon as any clarification is requested. We are far better off without those sort of timewasters.

 

Anyway, it is noted that you didn't try to help him with his question at all, you just told him to go elsewhere. Why didn't you try to help him with his question? It is always very easy to criticise from the sidelines.

Edited October 8, 2024 by nicknorman

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

Nobody on here loses from entitled stupid arrogant people asking illiterate and incomprehensible questions jabbed into a phone without any thought for who they are talking to (and that it is a discussion forum, not a free professional advice service) and then sulking as soon as any clarification is requested. We are far better off without those sort of timewasters.

 

Anyway, it is noted that you didn't try to help him with his question at all, you just told him to go elsewhere. Why didn't you try to help him with his question? It is always very easy to criticise from the sidelines.

 

And there's your proof... 😞 

 

As for telling off others for not helping, that's a bit rich coming from someone whose first "helpful" responses were:

 

"Ai generated.

I didn't reply initially due to the tone of your question. Incoherent and totally lacking in any sort of detail that would be required to give any semblance of a helpful reply. And seemingly intentionally using words that could have secondary meanings just to be confusing and clever.  You didn't have the courtesy to add any sort of detail when asked for it. Rude. Back to Facebook with you!

I still think you are an AI bot though. Surely a human can't be that entitled?

Excellent news! Although I am disappointed I never got the chance to tell you that you spell query "query". Queery is an affectionate name for a homosexual."

 

Edited October 8, 2024 by IanD

[truckcab79]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

Nobody on here loses from entitled stupid arrogant people asking illiterate and incomprehensible questions jabbed into a phone without any thought for who they are talking to (and that it is a discussion forum, not a free professional advice service) and then sulking as soon as any clarification is requested. We are far better off without those sort of timewasters.

 

Anyway, it is noted that you didn't try to help him with his question at all, you just told him to go elsewhere. Why didn't you try to help him with his question? It is always very easy to criticise from the sidelines.

Because that IS help.  I don’t know the answer to his question.  But I know a group of people who do. - That’s how help works.  
 

And remember you don’t have to answer any questions at all. It’s just a forum so if you don’t like people you regard as ignorant and illiterate then don’t engage with them. It’s not complicated and nobody has asked you to volunteer to the ‘free professional advice service’ last time I looked  😂😂😂

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

And there's your proof... 😞 

Bang on again.  So much part of the issue that they can’t see that they’re the problem.  

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

And there's your proof... 😞 

Proof of what exactly?

1 minute ago, truckcab79 said:

Because that IS help.  I don’t know the answer to his question. 

 

Nobody knew the answer to his question because it was worded so poorly. If he posts same question on 12v group, nobody will understand his question either. You just reinforced his entitled behaviour and impeded him from getting his question answered. No doubt it made you feel better though.

[tree monkey]

26 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

 

Bang on. I’ve lost count of how many newbies I’ve seen come and go in minutes in the year I’ve been on here. Everybody loses from that. 
 

 

If you can’t read the negative tone in those replies then you’re tone deaf to be honest.  Perhaps you’ve  read too much of it and think it’s normal.
 

Forums are odd places. Most wouldn’t dream of taking to someone like that face to face but give them anonymity and a keyboard and they’re all big boys. 
 

 

 

It went slightly snarky after 8 days with no response, now I understand no one is under any obligation to respond but 8 days after a post, particularly after they post about being worried about something.

It's only human nature to wonder what is going on

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Proof of what exactly?

That some people -- including you -- just can't stop belittling and sticking the boot into new posters to show them how superior their canal knowledge is... 😞 

 

Before denying this, you might want to go back and read your own posts -- and not just on this thread... 😞 

Edited October 8, 2024 by IanD

[nicknorman]

4 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

 It’s just a forum so if you don’t like people you regard as ignorant and illiterate then don’t engage with them.

 

You will notice that I didn't engage with him at first. I realised the question was carelessly written and unanswerable, so bad in fact that I suspected it was a wind up. It was only when he came back all sulky and entitled that I got pissed off with him.

[IanD]

Just now, nicknorman said:

You will notice that I didn't engage with him at first. I realised the question was carelessly written and unanswerable, so bad in fact that I suspected it was a wind up. It was only when he came back all sulky and entitled that I got pissed off with him.

Read your own posts instead of making excuses...

[nicknorman]

Just now, IanD said:

That some people -- including you -- just can't stop belittling and sticking the boot into new posters to show them how superior their canal knowledge is... 😞 

HaHa I guess the irony is totally lost on you! Anyway, I think you have made a typo above. I am not trying to show them how superior THEIR canal knowledge is!

But seriously, people are coming on here and asking for other people's time to answer technical questions "by remote control" which is quite difficult. It is reasonable to expect an attempt to ask the question in a way that it can be answered and if they don't do that and are asked for additional information, it is reasonable to expect that to be forthcoming to the best of their abilities and for them not to get sulky when it is asked.

I think you will be struggling to find any occasion when I have dissed a questioner before they get all sulky and/or have declined to offer any further information beyond an initial and totaly vague, unanswerable question.

If you are going to reinforce the behaviour of these sorts of posters, you are not doing them a favour because they are never going to get their questions answered - if indeed they actually do want their questions answered, which I sometimes doubt.

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Read your own posts instead of making excuses...

I don't need to read them - I wrote them! Duh!

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Read your own posts instead of making excuses...

 

How about you have a stab at answering the OP's question given you are so keen to defend it?

 

Here's the question again which I can't understand. Maybe you can...

 

"I am a bit worried my boat may not be earthed properly after someone saw my wiring.

Is there a sure fire way to know I'm not positively earthed?

Thanks"

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

HaHa I guess the irony is totally lost on you! Anyway, I think you have made a typo above. I am not trying to show them how superior THEIR canal knowledge is!

But seriously, people are coming on here and asking for other people's time to answer technical questions "by remote control" which is quite difficult. It is reasonable to expect an attempt to ask the question in a way that it can be answered and if they don't do that and are asked for additional information, it is reasonable to expect that to be forthcoming to the best of their abilities and for them not to get sulky when it is asked.

I think you will be struggling to find any occasion when I have dissed a questioner before they get all sulky and/or have declined to offer any further information beyond an initial and totaly vague, unanswerable question.

If you are going to reinforce the behaviour of these sorts of posters, you are not doing them a favour because they are never going to get their questions answered - if indeed they actually do want their questions answered, which I sometimes doubt.

I don't need to read them - I wrote them! Duh!

Perhaps you need to brush up on your English grammar before correcting mine? The subject of the sentence was "Some people" so "their" is correct.

 

Regardless of how uneducated about boats newbies are or how poor their writing style is, there's simply no need for the kind of insulting comments that you repeatedly make.

 

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How about you have a stab at answering the OP's question given you are so keen to defend it?

 

Here's the question again which I can't understand. Maybe you can...

 

"I am a bit worried my boat may not be earthed properly after someone saw my wiring.

Is there a sure fire way to know I'm not positively earthed?

Thanks"

Also missing the point. I'm not defending the OPs question (or trying to answer it, because that's already been done). I'm saying there's no need for the language and attitude that some people used in reply -- and that this is all too common on CWDF.

 

Being nicer to people instead of p*ssing on their chips costs nothing. Unfortunately some people seem to be too full of p*ss and vinegar -- apt for the chips, I guess... 😞 

Edited October 8, 2024 by IanD

[Peanut]

It was the OP's friend, who, looking at the boat's wiring, caused them to worry about the earthing. No doubt, the friend did not understand what they saw, perhaps more used to seeing the negative pole of the battery attached to the bodywork of a car, and was confused that the boat might be, “positively earthed,” and outside their experience. The OP, not knowing either, came here for help.

 

That is all I got from the question, and left it for others to reply. The response reminds me of the story of the tourist who asked a New York cop for directions, to be told, “go buy a map,” to which the OP took umbrage.

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, IanD said:

Being nicer to people instead of p*ssing on their chips costs nothing. Unfortunately some people seem to be too full of p*ss and vinegar -- apt for the chips, I guess... 😞 

 

If you review the thread you'll notice the serious, heavyweight chip-pissing was started by the OP. 

 

Prior to that, there was just a light sprinkling nagging for a response to questions arising. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Peanut said:

It was the OP's friend, who, looking at the boat's wiring, caused them to worry about the earthing. No doubt, the friend did not understand what they saw, perhaps more used to seeing the negative pole of the battery attached to the bodywork of a car, and was confused that the boat might be, “positively earthed,” and outside their experience. The OP, not knowing either, came here for help.

 

That is all I got from the question, and left it for others to reply. The response reminds me of the story of the tourist who asked a New York cop for directions, to be told, “go buy a map,” to which the OP took umbrage.

 

But within a very few posts I did give him a reply based on the scant info given to enable him to find out. I agree with your thoughts about is and said so a few posts later. However, I saw no negativity in the posts, only requests for more information.

 

How are we ever going to give sensible replies if we are not allowed to ask for clarification? It is understandable that new posters may not know how to phrase a question or what info is needed, but there is no excuse for appearing to ignore requests for more info even if the answer is "sorry,  don't know".

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But within a very few posts I did give him a reply based on the scant info given to enable him to find out. I agree with your thoughts about is and said so a few posts later. However, I saw no negativity in the posts, only requests for more information.

 

How are we ever going to give sensible replies if we are not allowed to ask for clarification? It is understandable that new posters may not know how to phrase a question or what info is needed, but there is no excuse for appearing to ignore requests for more info even if the answer is "sorry,  don't know".

Asking for clarification, great... 🙂 

 

Insults and language like some posters used, not so great... 😞 

 

And from their replies, they still completely fail to see the problem with doing this (repeatedly, on multiple threads) -- which means that *they're* the CWDF problem, not the newbies... 😞 

 

Does this sound familiar? It should do, it's in the CWDF T&Cs...

 

"To ensure we provide an enjoyable and safe platform for everyone, it is expected that members be respectful and civil in all communications on the site.

Members are required to conduct themselves in a civil manner including the use of language when engaging with other members"

Edited October 8, 2024 by IanD

[dogless]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

Asking for clarification, great... 🙂 

 

Insults and language like some posters used, not so great... 😞 

 

Forgive me ... can you quote the insults and language ... I'm truly not seeing either, thanks.

Rog

[IanD]

1 minute ago, dogless said:

Rog

I did that a few posts back, I'm sure you can find it too...

Edited October 8, 2024 by IanD

[dogless]

Ah ... you're referring to Telemachus being sarcastic AFTER the event.

 

Fair enough ... but some, including me, consider that humour after someone asks an impossible question to answer and gets shirty when invited to expand.

 

Rog

Edited October 8, 2024 by dogless

[IanD]

Just now, dogless said:

Ah ... you're referring to @telemachus being sarcastic AFTER the event.

 

Fair enough ... but some, including me, consider that humour after someone asks an impossible question to answer and gets shirty when invited to expand.

 

Rog

Do I need to point out that he accused the OP of being an AI before the OP had responded at all after his initial post? Or that after the OP -- understandably -- bit back at the tone of the replies, he immediately posted the diatribe I quoted earlier?

 

That's not humour or sarcasm, it's just plain nasty.

 

Would he have said it to the OPs face in real life? Almost certainly not, because he might well have been clocked as a result.

 

That's hiding behind a keyboard, and -- as pointed out earlier -- it's all too common online in general, and on CWDF in particular... 😞 

 

Oh yes I forgot -- it's against CWDF rules too, but then nobody takes a blind bit of notice of those unless they're reported to the mods, do they?

[dogless]

Sorry but that's nonsense.

 

Eight days after asking a ridiculously worded question it was suggested it may have been spam rather than a genuine enquiry.

 

Your outrage is misplaced I suggest.

 

Rog