This picture of Colwich lock on the T&M, sums up our experience this year.

[johnmck]

[Ex Brummie]

What your photo doesn't show is the leakage through the bottom gate that virtually equals the input from the gate paddle as the level rises.

Thankfully the queues formed by the slow operation means there is inevitably some other boaters about to lend a hand ( or bum or back)😁

[dogless]

I encountered dozens of these 'temporary' repairs down the GU this summer.

 

I suppose it's easy to be critical of a 'bodge job' but to be fair, the locks are working and continue to be used quite heavily.

 

Much better than lengthy closure don't you think ?

 

Rog

[Iain_S]

52 minutes ago, dogless said:

I encountered dozens of these 'temporary' repairs down the GU this summer.

 

I suppose it's easy to be critical of a 'bodge job' but to be fair, the locks are working and continue to be used quite heavily.

 

Much better than lengthy closure don't you think ?

 

Rog

Yeah, but these repairs will eventually fail, due to movement of the balance beam wearing the wood against the steel and continuing rotting of the wood. What happens if they all go in quick succession?

[Ken X]

C&RT do seem to be increasingly cobbling things together in the short term. I can only assume this is due to lack of funds rather than apathy.

 

This kicking the can down the road is only storing up increased costs as eventually these lash-ups will fail and require rectification.  If the necessary funds are not available at this point then prolonged closures would seem to be the inevitable result.  There currently seems to be little interest from central government so the omens are not great.

 

We are planning our cruising diary for next year and the Wey and Thames are looking increasingly likely.  This is a great pity as we do enjoy the canal network and it's associated pubs and shops. We have had our cruising plans increasingly affected over the last few years and it just becomes more hassle than it's worth.

[Arthur Marshall]

The problem at Colwich is not just the falling apart beam, it's the bust ground paddle. This is happening more and more on the T&M, especially on the flights with paired locks which are slowly being reduced to single locks with, at best, three working paddles. 

2 minutes ago, Ken X said:

This kicking the can down the road is only storing up increased costs as eventually these lash-ups will fail and require rectification

As they all seem to be failing at the same time,  they will presumably do the same again. There obviously isn't the ability any more to renew locks as they fail, so the only long-term solution is to reduce the number of locks to a quantity that can be maintained. And the only way to do that it to close some bits of the network. 

I suspect reducing any paired locks to a single will be the start, but it won't be enough.

[gatekrash]

At least that had a proper brace on it. 

 

This was Lapworth a few weeks ago. It wasn't just these 2, a couple of the other gates on the flight felt like the beams were not far off failure either.

I did like the yellow sticky tape covering the raw end of the metal work!

 

 

 

 

[dogless]

57 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Yeah, but these repairs will eventually fail, due to movement of the balance beam wearing the wood against the steel and continuing rotting of the wood. What happens if they all go in quick succession?

I suggest it's a short term solution that keeps us cruising.

 

Of course they can close the canal until new gates are made and can be fitted, if and when they can afford to do that.

 

I suspect even  C&RT don't consider it a substitute for replacing rotting gates but it keeps the canal open meantime was my point.

 

Rog

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15 by dogless

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’ve been seeing what appear to be brand new (or close to brand new) CRT vans around,

the blue ones with the wavey pattern on

not sparing anymore there are they?

does me nut in watching someone drive out for teatime milk and biscuits in a smart van when the infrastructure’s falling apart,

give the marketing/office workers some spanners and send them out for a proper day’s work

 

[agg221]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The problem at Colwich is not just the falling apart beam, it's the bust ground paddle. This is happening more and more on the T&M, especially on the flights with paired locks which are slowly being reduced to single locks with, at best, three working paddles. 

As they all seem to be failing at the same time,  they will presumably do the same again. There obviously isn't the ability any more to renew locks as they fail, so the only long-term solution is to reduce the number of locks to a quantity that can be maintained. And the only way to do that it to close some bits of the network. 

I suspect reducing any paired locks to a single will be the start, but it won't be enough.

Speaking to a few people during a tour of Bradley Workshops at the festival earlier this year, I think the situation may not be so bleak as it at first appears.

 

The main issue as it was told is that locks have an average lifespan of 25yrs and the total number of locks on the system exceeds 1/25th of their annual production capability. They are currently hitting the peak of the problem as the locks on the millenium restoration projects are now reaching end of life.

 

The issue is that lock gate manufacturing is still highly manual. For example, the curve on the heel post is made by multiple passes through a planer on a rotating jig, turning a few degrees at a time which takes about 3hrs. The finish is then hand sanded to create the curve. With a finite space for manufacturing in there is not much that can be done to accelerate throughput with the existing method of manufacture. The solution they are proposing is to go to CNC manufacturing to replace a lot of the manual front end processes. The heel post for example could then be made in 10mins.

 

These numbers aren't quite right, but if you look back through threads a few months ago at the time of the festival I posted more accurate numbers. It was something like current production enables 180 leaves a year, they need to manufacture 220 leaves per year to keep up with the renewal programme and the revised method of manufacture should enable 260 leaves per year. The plan for the remaining capacity is to address some current latent demand for gates outside of CRT, both in the UK and overseas (there is a canal in Canada which wants gates). Selling these additional gates should cover the depreciation cost of the investment in the CNC equipment.

 

Another change is a redesign of gates to facilitate in-situ replacement of balance beams and heel post tops. This has already been implemented on some newer gates and as well as reducing stoppage times when gates fail before design life, it also allows re-use of beams which may only have been in service a year or two before the rest of the gate is renewed, reducing material use. There is also consideration being given to reverting to the original plank and frame gate design on some locks where a vertical beam design was adopted at a point when material was cheap and labour expensive (WW1 I think). This allows material savings, reducing overall cost without any loss of performance.

 

The current situation is undeniably bad. It probably won't get better for a couple of years, but after that if the above goes ahead I am hopeful that a sustainable and cost-effective solution is possible. No, I do not work for CRT, but I was suitably impressed at the thought processes and dedication being put in by the team to modernise lock gate manufacturing and I wish them all the best with it - it is in all our interests for it to work.

Alec

[hider]

Steel gates that last a lot longer and could be made Meccano style to be able to fit different locks rather than always being bespoke for one lock would break this 20 to 25 year replacement cycle and give CRT a chance to catch up.

I do not believe that using steel would be more expensive considering the time saving and extended life. Gates from the '70s are still serviceable in many flights. 

[cuthound]

59 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’ve been seeing what appear to be brand new (or close to brand new) CRT vans around,

the blue ones with the wavey pattern on

not sparing anymore there are they?

does me nut in watching someone drive out for teatime milk and biscuits in a smart van when the infrastructure’s falling apart,

give the marketing/office workers some spanners and send them out for a proper day’s work

 

 

Most companies lease their vehicles, usually for 3-5 years. Although it costs more in the long run, it makes financial planning easier as it is a fixed monthly payment, rather than lumpy expenditure of buying, depreciating and repairing.

[David Mack]

34 minutes ago, hider said:

Steel gates that last a lot longer and could be made Meccano style...

I think the holes might leak more water than some of the more ill-fitted gates we have at the moment...

[Victor Vectis]

2 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Yeah, but these repairs will eventually fail, due to movement of the balance beam wearing the wood against the steel and continuing rotting of the wood. What happens if they all go in quick succession?

 

CRT will blame 'vandalism'.

😠

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

< snip > give the marketing/office workers some spanners and send them out for a proper day’s work

 

They would probably ask "Where do you plug them in?"

2 hours ago, gatekrash said:

At least that had a proper brace on it. 

 

This was Lapworth a few weeks ago. It wasn't just these 2, a couple of the other gates on the flight felt like the beams were not far off failure either.

I did like the yellow sticky tape covering the raw end of the metal work!

 

 

 

 

 

There has been a yellow 'CRT aware' bag over one of the bottom end paddles on Lock 20 for over a year.

I'm guessing it hasn't been fixed as the one on the other side is working.

But if that one goes FUBAR I'm sure CRT will leave it saying that boats can still go uphill by going through the link to the services basin and use Lock 21.

[Cheshire cat]

I went through Colwich lock this morning. The gate with the splint on was manufactured in 2006 so only 18 years old. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

23 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Most companies lease their vehicles, usually for 3-5 years. Although it costs more in the long run, it makes financial planning easier as it is a fixed monthly payment, rather than lumpy expenditure of buying, depreciating and repairing.

I know but frustrating to see,

smart this and that for the public eye,

vans, uniforms and signs new but a simple paddle out of order for the umpteenth year,

just a moan I need to get off me chest 😃 (again)

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

Speaking to a few people during a tour of Bradley Workshops at the festival earlier this year, I think the situation may not be so bleak as it at first appears.

 

The main issue as it was told is that locks have an average lifespan of 25yrs and the total number of locks on the system exceeds 1/25th of their annual production capability. They are currently hitting the peak of the problem as the locks on the millenium restoration projects are now reaching end of life.

 

The issue is that lock gate manufacturing is still highly manual. For example, the curve on the heel post is made by multiple passes through a planer on a rotating jig, turning a few degrees at a time which takes about 3hrs. The finish is then hand sanded to create the curve. With a finite space for manufacturing in there is not much that can be done to accelerate throughput with the existing method of manufacture. The solution they are proposing is to go to CNC manufacturing to replace a lot of the manual front end processes. The heel post for example could then be made in 10mins.

 

These numbers aren't quite right, but if you look back through threads a few months ago at the time of the festival I posted more accurate numbers. It was something like current production enables 180 leaves a year, they need to manufacture 220 leaves per year to keep up with the renewal programme and the revised method of manufacture should enable 260 leaves per year. The plan for the remaining capacity is to address some current latent demand for gates outside of CRT, both in the UK and overseas (there is a canal in Canada which wants gates). Selling these additional gates should cover the depreciation cost of the investment in the CNC equipment.

 

Another change is a redesign of gates to facilitate in-situ replacement of balance beams and heel post tops. This has already been implemented on some newer gates and as well as reducing stoppage times when gates fail before design life, it also allows re-use of beams which may only have been in service a year or two before the rest of the gate is renewed, reducing material use. There is also consideration being given to reverting to the original plank and frame gate design on some locks where a vertical beam design was adopted at a point when material was cheap and labour expensive (WW1 I think). This allows material savings, reducing overall cost without any loss of performance.

 

The current situation is undeniably bad. It probably won't get better for a couple of years, but after that if the above goes ahead I am hopeful that a sustainable and cost-effective solution is possible. No, I do not work for CRT, but I was suitably impressed at the thought processes and dedication being put in by the team to modernise lock gate manufacturing and I wish them all the best with it - it is in all our interests for it to work.

Alec

sounds great,

these ideas are coming from the workers are them in management up above as dedicated to making it work?

 

the workshops are well worth visiting, I think I’ve been around twice now,

 

[dogless]

Have to agree and I understand the moan.

 

Just saying we travelled down to London and back through loads of these 'bodged repair' locks, as I know you did too.

 

They worked ... we moved ... much better than the alternative I'd say.

 

I suppose it's a half full or half empty view point 🍻

 

Rog

[agg221]

14 minutes ago, hider said:

Steel gates that last a lot longer and could be made Meccano style to be able to fit different locks rather than always being bespoke for one lock would break this 20 to 25 year replacement cycle and give CRT a chance to catch up.

I do not believe that using steel would be more expensive considering the time saving and extended life. Gates from the '70s are still serviceable in many flights. 

There was some discussion about this.

 

The Meccano approach doesn't work unfortunately. The issue is that every lock is a different shape. Even if they started off nominally to the same design, the tolerances they were built to are looser than the tolerances needed for the gate. Then you get over 200yrs of modifications and movement and they just don't fit. In general, gates are not actually rectangular and they now tilt in both directions.

 

Steel gates have been trialled again recently - K&A springs to mind, but this time with some design differences to make them look like wooden ones. The feedback was that nobody noticed the difference, which is encouraging. They are more expensive to make but they last a lot longer so that is a direction under serious consideration where it can be done. There are heritage reasons to stick with wood, particularly on locks which are listed structures, but the number could be scaled back which would take the pressure off. Composites have also been considered but there is concern over release of microplastics which is delaying this one.

 

Alec

[Chris John]

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’ve been seeing what appear to be brand new (or close to brand new) CRT vans around,

the blue ones with the wavey pattern on

not sparing anymore there are they?

does me nut in watching someone drive out for teatime milk and biscuits in a smart van when the infrastructure’s falling apart,

give the marketing/office workers some spanners and send them out for a proper day’s work

 

The vans will be leased and on an auto renewal bases as per what every other large organisation does 

[agg221]

12 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

sounds great,

these ideas are coming from the workers are them in management up above as dedicated to making it work?

 

the workshops are well worth visiting, I think I’ve been around twice now,

 

Depends on where you draw the line between 'management' and 'workers'. I actually went round the workshops twice on the same day. The first time because I was there on my own and it was bucketing down with rain so I didn't fancy standing by the boat explaining it; the second in the afternoon when my family arrived and they wanted to see it too. The first tour was led by the manager in charge of locks across the whole of the UK for CRT, so he sits above Bradley, Stanley Ferry and also the installation and on-site maintenance programmes; the second tour was run by the manager of Bradley workshop. They are the ones driving the change. They cannot sign off  the budget for the new equipment, but they have significant influence I would say.

Alec

[David Mack]

22 minutes ago, agg221 said:

In general, gates are not actually rectangular and they now tilt in both directions.

Most gates were originally designed with the heel posts tilting in both directions. That way the gates both fall open and fall closed with a 'high' point about midway between the open and closed positions.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

33 minutes ago, agg221 said:

Depends on where you draw the line between 'management' and 'workers'. I actually went round the workshops twice on the same day. The first time because I was there on my own and it was bucketing down with rain so I didn't fancy standing by the boat explaining it; the second in the afternoon when my family arrived and they wanted to see it too. The first tour was led by the manager in charge of locks across the whole of the UK for CRT, so he sits above Bradley, Stanley Ferry and also the installation and on-site maintenance programmes; the second tour was run by the manager of Bradley workshop. They are the ones driving the change. They cannot sign off  the budget for the new equipment, but they have significant influence I would say.

Alec

Sounds positive,

thanks 👍

44 minutes ago, dogless said:

Have to agree and I understand the moan.

 

Just saying we travelled down to London and back through loads of these 'bodged repair' locks, as I know you did too.

 

They worked ... we moved ... much better than the alternative I'd say.

 

I suppose it's a half full or half empty view point 🍻

 

Rog

absolutely, better we were kept going,

…but it’s the paddle gear that does me,

I’ll pass the same places next year and see the same paddles out of action,

and I expect next year I’ll see a few more out of action,

 

If I were to visit Bradley again I’d ask about paddle repair,

what’s the common cause of failure? How difficult to repair? Etc

 

 

[matty40s]

The most annoying one is the 2nd bottom Stoke Bruerne one. Has now been missing for 3 years.

Apparently, it is because of complaints from the houses by bottom lock which very occasionally get flooded.

However, I don't think removing paddles is the answer, clearing sluices on the bottom lock, re-utiising the side ponds as a spill pond, and other ingenious ideas are all far better than waiting up to half an hour for the lock ro empty...and queues build up.

[johnmck]

I really do get that crt are strapped for cash. That make do and mend keeps the system running in the short term. But...

The backlog of maintenance is now reaching critical levels. This year, we have been bedeviled by stoppages, more so than any previous year. Crt have short term, sorted them expeditiously,  but this still leaves the satisfactory remedy on the future fix schedule. Which then becomes longer and longer.

Locks are the most visible reminder of system faults, but issues run deeper. Routine maintenance is broken I am sorry to say.

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, johnmck said:

I really do get that crt are strapped for cash. That make do and mend keeps the system running in the short term. But...

The backlog of maintenance is now reaching critical levels. This year, we have been bedeviled by stoppages, more so than any previous year. Crt have short term, sorted them expeditiously,  but this still leaves the satisfactory remedy on the future fix schedule. Which then becomes longer and longer.

Locks are the most visible reminder of system faults, but issues run deeper. Routine maintenance is broken I am sorry to say.

I think everyone on the canals realises that, but your very first line gives the reason why this is the case... 😞