Diesel propulsion splits - new advice from HMRC?

[Cancunia]

22 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

If you want another split, any reason who not two purchases at different splits?

Yes, that's certainly one way to do it and may even be easier to argue if ever audited.

[GUMPY]

Winter with little cruising =100% domestic.

[robtheplod]

Has anyone ever had a query/investigation by HMRC on their fuel patterns?

[GUMPY]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Has anyone ever had a query/investigation by HMRC on their fuel patterns?

One or two big plastic cruisers were investigated in the very early days, pour encourager les autres 🤭

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, Cancunia said:

 

 

so really am just wondering if I'm likely to get any push back from HMRC if I say 80/20 (assuming that the supplier will make that split)?

 

That is what I normally declare. If you are going to Sawley fill up at Burton On Trent, it was 90p 3 weeks ago and declare what you like, I am sure it will be cheaper than Sawley 

You declare what you think you are going to use, not what you used last time, so there is no way of measuring it, you can only estimate 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

What does anyone declare if they got an electric engine?

moving by electric propulsion and then charging up the batteries via a generator.

 

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You declare what you think you are going to use, not what you used last time, so there is no way of measuring it, you can only estimate 

 

I usually declare 80/20. If I turn out to have made an error, I'd happily stump up the difference.

 

Can't imagine HMRC (or me!) having any way of finding out though, or ever being much bothered. They have bigger fish to fry (hopefully!)

 

 

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

What does anyone declare if they got an electric engine?

moving by electric propulsion and then charging up the batteries via a generator.

 

I declared 60:40 last time I filled up.

[jonathanA]

53 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

What does anyone declare if they got an electric engine?

moving by electric propulsion and then charging up the batteries via a generator.

 

Well under the new(ish) rules for red diesel, non commercial generation of electricity is allowable  (at the full rebate ).   What you do with the generated electricity doesn't seem to be a concern for HMRC.

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Well under the new(ish) rules for red diesel, non commercial generation of electricity is allowable  (at the full rebate ).   What you do with the generated electricity doesn't seem to be a concern for HMRC.

 

 

perfect news for electric boat owners then, always pay the domestic rate of 0% 👍

[Guest]

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

What does anyone declare if they got an electric engine?

moving by electric propulsion and then charging up the batteries via a generator.

 

I have always declared 100% domestic for diesel, 5 kw of solar means recharging is done ny the sun. The generator is normally for cooking in summer in the  evening, it produces hot water and if needed will gharge both battery banks.

[Cancunia]

10 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is what I normally declare. If you are going to Sawley fill up at Burton On Trent, it was 90p 3 weeks ago and declare what you like, I am sure it will be cheaper than Sawley 

You declare what you think you are going to use, not what you used last time, so there is no way of measuring it, you can only estimate 

Thanks for the tip, I'll call ahead to Burton on my way over. Is there just the one place at Jannel Cruisers? You're right about Sawley prices, yesterday was 10p more than Anglo Welsh at Gt Haywood. By the time I get to Burton, I'll probably declare 0% propulsion as I'll be using what's left in the tank before I fill up to get to Sawley. 

[Grassman]

Aquavista are very often more pricey than other marinas for their diesel, gas, coal, pump outs etc. I believe they're owned by a hedge fund so it's hardly surprising really.

 

I've heard their moorers say that even with their 10% discount they are paying more than most other places charge.

 

 

[Cancunia]

7 minutes ago, Grassman said:

I've heard their moorers say that even with their 10% discount they are paying more than most other places charge.

 

 

 

I'll find out in November, but hopefully I'll have enough fuel on board to get me through the winter for just heating & hw. 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Cancunia said:

Thanks for the tip, I'll call ahead to Burton on my way over. Is there just the one place at Jannel Cruisers? You're right about Sawley prices, yesterday was 10p more than Anglo Welsh at Gt Haywood. By the time I get to Burton, I'll probably declare 0% propulsion as I'll be using what's left in the tank before I fill up to get to Sawley. 

Shobnall Marina , on the old disused canal arm. you need to reverse in through the bridge and the pump is in the narrows almost still under the bridge but under cover right where the man is standing

 

Edited October 12, 2024 by ditchcrawler

[Steve Hayes]

In the last three months while we’ve been out and filled up a few times, we’ve seen alsorts of demands and scams.

a lot of hire boat places insist on 60/40 split, keep moving on.

we got stung at Abingdon, filled in the declaration form, declared 40/60 and later realised we’d been charged 100 propulsion, not just us a few other boats have the same story. I wonder what the tax man is told ?

we also filled up and declared 20% (making up for the previous scam) but no boat or personal details taken.

other yards play by the book and allow you to declare what you want, comments made not 0% as you don’t moor here, which is a fair comment.

[NB Alnwick]

I think for most of us, as long as one makes a reasonable estimate of the proportion used purely for propulsion and that used for electricity generation/battery charging/heating and so on, HMRC are unlikely to be interested.

Our slow running engine combined with an inefficient generating/charging system means that it often takes all day to re-charge our batteries to 100% after having the lights on and the TV running during the previous evening - in my view this justifies a 100% domestic rate during the darker days and nights of Winter.  In Summer we do more cruising and use less electricity so a 60/40 split may be more appropriate.

Unfortunately we still pay more duty than we need. This is because we occasionally need to run our Honda generator and that runs on petrol purchased at the full road fuel duty rate.

It may be helpful to take note of the following text copied from the HMRC website:

"However, it’s accepted that declarations will necessarily be based upon an estimate of intended usage and that this may not in every instance reflect actual usage. Provided you’ve made every effort to accurately estimate your intended usage, we will not apply a civil penalty."

Edited October 13, 2024 by NB Alnwick