Transporting Dutch Barge to France From UK

[SamanthaRobins]

Having moved onto our Dutch Barge called Ida since the children left for University we are planning a next leg of this adventure to relocate to France with Ida. Really hoping that anyone has some advice as this is all very new and unknown territory….

[Bargebuilder]

There will be no shortage of advice I'm sure, but just to get things started, what areas concern you most?

Are you new to boating, or just barges, or just boating in France? What size is Ida?

[Tony Brooks]

You may get more help by asking The Barge Association - https://www.barges.org/

 

Do you have EU citizenship, if not I think that you are now limited to 90 days before you have to leave the EU. There might be taxes to pay (VAT) unless you can prove tax was paid when the UK was an EU member. I think it is a minefield not so well understood on this forum, so please also use at the link above as well as asking here.

[Stilllearning]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

You may get more help by asking The Barge Association - https://www.barges.org/

 

Do you have EU citizenship, if not I think that you are now limited to 90 days before you have to leave the EU. There might be taxes to pay (VAT) unless you can prove tax was paid when the UK was an EU member. I think it is a minefield not so well understood on this forum, so please also use at the link above as well as asking here.

When we get asked this sort of question, which is part of my wife's remit as secretary of an art gallery here, we tell people to talk to the British embassy in Paris. 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

When we get asked this sort of question, which is part of my wife's remit as secretary of an art gallery here, we tell people to talk to the British embassy in Paris. 

 

So may be the OP should ask the French embassy in London (for clarity, they may not twig you are in France and in bricks and mortar).

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

There might be taxes to pay (VAT) unless you can prove tax was paid when the UK was an EU member.

 

I don't think that is correct - the VAT staus is dependent upon where the boat was at 11pm 31st December 2020.

If it was in the UK, then it is classified as UK VAT paid, if it was In Europe it is classified as EU VAT paid.

 

If a boat is subesquently taken the the UK / EU to the EU / UK then VAT becomes due at the local rate.

A boat taken  from the UK to the EU will be classed as coming from a 3rd party country.

 

Boats should have been issued with a 'Brexit Location Certificate' by their mooring provider.

 

Extract from mine :

 

As of 31* of December 2A20,11 pm UTC) Great Britain has ceased to be part of the
Customs Territory of the EU.
Recreational boats lying in GB at the time will cease to be in free circulation in the
'Customs Territory of the EU. They will no longer have Union status and will be treated
by the UK as'domestic goods'.
ln order to evidence this status of 'domestic goods' in the future you will need to
continue to retain evidence of VAT paid status and you must also obtain and keep
evidence to demonstrate "Bezimeni's" location at the end of the transition period.
The Multihull Centre is hereby confirming that "Bezimeni" was stored on land here at
the Multihull Centre, Foss Quay, Mill Road, Millbrook, Cornwall, UK on the31-12-2020 at
11pm.
I have also enclosed the December berthing invoice paid to confirm this.
You will need to keep this letter and invoice for your records in case of any future sale of
"Bezimeni".
Yours sincerely
CA qd{0
Alex Frodel
Office Manager

 

 

There is a VAT relief system if you only intend to 'import it for lesst than 18 months, however if it is a permanent importation, or you stop over 18 months then VAT becomes due.

 

Heres are the details so you can do further research :

 

 

Boats owned by non-EU residents and registered outside the EU are entitled to tax free temporary importation into the EU for a total period of eighteen months. The EU Common Customs Tariff provides for relief from VAT liability for up to 18 months (Article 562(e) as referenced above) when the boat is owned by non-EU residents and where the boat will subsequently be removed from EU waters (Article 561). The permitted period, or temporary importation, applies to the entire EU area and therefore at the end of the period the boat must be sailed to a country outside the EU or VAT must be paid. The temporary importation period may be extended, at the discretion of local customs, for various bona fide reasons, such as if the boat is left unattended and unused, if the owner leaves the EU, or if the boat is left in the care of a boatyard for repair.

Those who wish to remain longer in any one EU country must deposit the ship’s papers with the local customs office, who will put the vessel under bond. The clock will then be stopped until the owner returns on board. During the period the vessel is in bond, the boat must not move from its berth, and the owner or crew are not allowed to sleep on board.

Non-EU boats remaining inside the EU for over the permitted period must be imported and VAT paid on the value of the boat. Anyone intending to do this would be well advised to import the boat into one of the EU countries with a lower VAT rate, such as Cyprus, Madeira or Malta.

There has been a harmonization of formalities concerning VAT in recent years, but there are still certain inconsistencies so the owners of boats from outside the EU should treat the matter with utmost caution and avoid being caught out. It must be stressed that the above 18-month VAT relief applies only where the boat is owned and sailed by a person not resident in the customs territory of the EU. The relief is invalidated if the boat is hired, sold or put at the disposal of a EU resident.

It is essential to ascertain on arrival in a new country the exact situation concerning VAT. As non-EU boats are required to contact immigration whenever crossing a border between EU countries, this may be the time to make such enquiries.

The legal provisions on temporary importation are found in: Articles 137 to 144 of the Customs Code (Council Regulation (EEC) N° 2913/92 of 12 October 1992 establishing the Community Customs) and in particular Articles 553 to 562 of the implementing provisions of the Customs Code (Commission Regulation (EEC) No 2454/93 of 2 July 1993).

 

If you are intending to liveaboard then obviously you become a resident in the EU and the exckusion does not apply.

 

DO THE RESEARCH

Edited August 19, 2024 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I don't think that is correct - the VAT staus is dependent upon where the boat was at 11pm 31st December 2020.

If it was in the UK, then it is classified as UK VAT paid, if it was In Europe it is classified as EU VAT paid.

 

If a boat is subesquently taken the the UK / EU to the EU / UK then VAT becomes due at the local rate.

A boat taken  from the UK to the EU will be classed as coming from a 3rd party country.

 

Boats should have been issued with a 'Brexit Location Certificate' by their mooring provider.

 

Extract from mine :

 

As of 31* of December 2A20,11 pm UTC) Great Britain has ceased to be part of the
Customs Territory of the EU.
Recreational boats lying in GB at the time will cease to be in free circulation in the
'Customs Territory of the EU. They will no longer have Union status and will be treated
by the UK as'domestic goods'.
ln order to evidence this status of 'domestic goods' in the future you will need to
continue to retain evidence of VAT paid status and you must also obtain and keep
evidence to demonstrate "Bezimeni's" location at the end of the transition period.
The Multihull Centre is hereby confirming that "Bezimeni" was stored on land here at
the Multihull Centre, Foss Quay, Mill Road, Millbrook, Cornwall, UK on the31-12-2020 at
11pm.
I have also enclosed the December berthing invoice paid to confirm this.
You will need to keep this letter and invoice for your records in case of any future sale of
"Bezimeni".
Yours sincerely
CA qd{0
Alex Frodel
Office Manager

 

 

There is a VAT relief system if you only intend to 'import it for lesst than 18 months, however if it is a permanent importation, or you stop over 18 months then VAT becomes due.

 

Heres are the details so you can do further research :

 

 

Boats owned by non-EU residents and registered outside the EU are entitled to tax free temporary importation into the EU for a total period of eighteen months. The EU Common Customs Tariff provides for relief from VAT liability for up to 18 months (Article 562(e) as referenced above) when the boat is owned by non-EU residents and where the boat will subsequently be removed from EU waters (Article 561). The permitted period, or temporary importation, applies to the entire EU area and therefore at the end of the period the boat must be sailed to a country outside the EU or VAT must be paid. The temporary importation period may be extended, at the discretion of local customs, for various bona fide reasons, such as if the boat is left unattended and unused, if the owner leaves the EU, or if the boat is left in the care of a boatyard for repair.

Those who wish to remain longer in any one EU country must deposit the ship’s papers with the local customs office, who will put the vessel under bond. The clock will then be stopped until the owner returns on board. During the period the vessel is in bond, the boat must not move from its berth, and the owner or crew are not allowed to sleep on board.

Non-EU boats remaining inside the EU for over the permitted period must be imported and VAT paid on the value of the boat. Anyone intending to do this would be well advised to import the boat into one of the EU countries with a lower VAT rate, such as Cyprus, Madeira or Malta.

There has been a harmonization of formalities concerning VAT in recent years, but there are still certain inconsistencies so the owners of boats from outside the EU should treat the matter with utmost caution and avoid being caught out. It must be stressed that the above 18-month VAT relief applies only where the boat is owned and sailed by a person not resident in the customs territory of the EU. The relief is invalidated if the boat is hired, sold or put at the disposal of a EU resident.

It is essential to ascertain on arrival in a new country the exact situation concerning VAT. As non-EU boats are required to contact immigration whenever crossing a border between EU countries, this may be the time to make such enquiries.

The legal provisions on temporary importation are found in: Articles 137 to 144 of the Customs Code (Council Regulation (EEC) N° 2913/92 of 12 October 1992 establishing the Community Customs) and in particular Articles 553 to 562 of the implementing provisions of the Customs Code (Commission Regulation (EEC) No 2454/93 of 2 July 1993).

 

If you are intending to liveaboard then obviously you become a resident in the EU and the exckusion does not apply.

 

DO THE RESEARCH

 

In no way do I disagree and it is a complicated area, but the last similar thread but in reverse, NL into the UK, it seems that what you quote may not apply:

 

"Hi there, yes so I can bring it in and be exempt from tax apparently , as it’s a TR01 ( transfer of residence)  so that’s good news and I have it in writing."

 

I don't know if this relief is just a UK thing or if i s reciprocal, so the OP needs to be very sure of the tax situation, and may one dare to mention the RCD/RCR situation before making any financial commitments for transport. If it all falls the wrong way, and France seems very rule focused, the transport cost could be a very small part of the overall bill.
 

 

@SamanthaRobins Please be assured that we are only trying to be helpful to prevent you getting into a mess. I think the advice to talk to the French embassy about this was good, and it will be worthwhile joining the Barge Association forum(s) for more advice.

[SamanthaRobins]

4 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

There will be no shortage of advice I'm sure, but just to get things started, what areas concern you most?

Are you new to boating, or just barges, or just boating in France? What size is Ida?

 

4 hours ago, SamanthaRobins said:

Having moved onto our Dutch Barge called Ida since the children left for University we are planning a next leg of this adventure to relocate to France with Ida. Really hoping that anyone has some advice as this is all very new and unknown territory….

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

In no way do I disagree and it is a complicated area, but the last similar thread but in reverse, NL into the UK, it seems that what you quote may not apply:

 

Yes - it is the whole'living on board and being classified as an EU resident.

 

I think without an EU passport / citizenship it is potentially a big can of worms and requires professional advice.

It will be very different if the OP is an EU citizen.

[Stilllearning]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

So may be the OP should ask the French embassy in London (for clarity, they may not twig you are in France and in bricks and mortar).

The British embassy in Paris is the best place for a British person to get advice on moving to France and needing a visa. The French embassy in London is good too, by asking both you get a broader view.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

...........for clarity, they may not twig you are in France and in bricks and mortar

 

 

The OP says they are wanting to RELOCATE to France with their boat.

 

5 hours ago, SamanthaRobins said:

Having moved onto our Dutch Barge called Ida since the children left for University we are planning a next leg of this adventure to relocate to France with Ida.

 

 

I don't think they are already in France

[Tam & Di]

You will get best advice from those who have done such things on the DBA website https://www.barges.org/ . Also all the minutiae of continental boating life - what certificatation is needed for boat and crew, good engineers, boatyards, chandlers, moorings, best phone services, where to get fuel and water, canal stoppages - and any number of other things that possibly you will not have thought about at his stage. The Embassies can obviously tell you the theoretical position re visas etc, but the DBA is better for the practical ins and outs of requirements from those involved.

 

[SamanthaRobins]

7 hours ago, SamanthaRobins said:

Having moved onto our Dutch Barge called Ida since the children left for University we are planning a next leg of this adventure to relocate to France with Ida. Really hoping that anyone has some advice as this is all very new and unknown territory….

 

Thank you so much everyone for such kind and insightful advice. Yes we are already boaters but want to relocate to France to continuous cruise on the French waterways. We have our visa application this Thursday so once that is confirmed we will get going on the helpful information and guides on this thread. Thank you it’s been priceless. 

[Alan de Enfield]

54 minutes ago, SamanthaRobins said:

 

Thank you so much everyone for such kind and insightful advice. Yes we are already boaters but want to relocate to France to continuous cruise on the French waterways. We have our visa application this Thursday so once that is confirmed we will get going on the helpful information and guides on this thread. Thank you it’s been priceless. 

 

Are you planning to take the barge over to France via water, or on the back of a truck ?

 

Have you got the relevant qualifications to use your boat on French waters ?

Edited August 19, 2024 by Alan de Enfield