TV by Aerial or Internet

[The Black Jack]

It amazes me people try to watch TV by aerial on narrowboats. Freeview reception needs a good clear path to the transmitter. Even a good directional aerial is going to struggle in wooded areas and cuttings.

 

A much better solution is to use streaming apps via the internet. A 4G mobile router on an unlimited data SIM connected to a small external aerial is all you need. If you don't have a newish smart TV, you can buy a Google Chromecast or Firestick. Let's send TV by aerial into the history books.

 

Before anyone points out that there are regions where 4G drops out, that may be correct but for the most part, it is a more reliable coverage than that provided by UHF TV reception from an aerial mounted only 3 metres from the surface of the canal.

Edited July 31, 2024 by The Black Jack
Bad phrasing.

[Quattrodave]

I often use freeview/DVB rarely do i have problems with reception, ok sometimes needs a retune.  I only have an omni directional antenna....

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 hours ago, The Black Jack said:

It amazes me people try to watch TV by aerial on narrowboats. Freeview reception needs a good clear path to the transmitter. Even a good directional aerial is going to struggle in wooded areas and cuttings.

 

A much better solution is to use streaming apps via the internet. A 4G mobile router on an unlimited data SIM connected to a small external aerial is all you need. If you don't have a newish smart TV, you can buy a Google Chromecast or Firestick. Let's send TV by aerial into the history books.

 

Before anyone points out that there are regions where 4G drops out, that may be correct but for the most part, it is a more reliable coverage than that provided by UHF TV reception from an aerial mounted only 3 metres from the surface of the canal.

 

The boating population skews older. People carry on doing what they've done years ago and there isn't the imperative to go straight to the new shiny. They already have the freeview gear, have worked out how to align the aerial and see no reason to change till something breaks in a major way. Why send yet more electronic waste to landfill when there is no need yet? I used freeview and freesat, till I gave up on live TV years ago. When I first set it up, 4G and streaming weren't even a thing, or only available in big cities. When you've mistressed an older technology, there isn't the imperative to change and start the learning cycle all over again, even if the newer is better by some metrics. I still navigate by map, compass and dead reckoning, rather than GPS for the most part. Vinyl is still a thing, which I find bizarre, but I never got in to that as a youngster and CDs when they came out were so obviously superior that I went straight from cassette tape to them, then to MP3. Still not got in to streaming music. I'm impressed with new shiny as much as any one, but unless I see a compelling case for my situation, I won't change to it just because it is new and shiny.

[Bargebuilder]

9 hours ago, The Black Jack said:

It amazes me people try to watch TV by aerial on narrowboats. Freeview reception needs a good clear path to the transmitter. Even a good directional aerial is going to struggle in wooded areas and cuttings

In my experience, and I cruise around 500 miles each summer, I have no trouble at all getting a Freeview signal by using a cheap, small TV aerial. It's not omnidirectional, so I have to point it in the correct direction, but that is hardly an onerous task. So far this year I struggled to get a signal once because we were in a cutting, but we couldn't get a strong internet connection there either: I moved!

 

We do have a smart TV and we can use the phone as a hot spot, but needing to do so is very rare for us.

 

 

[IanD]

55 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

In my experience, and I cruise around 500 miles each summer, I have no trouble at all getting a Freeview signal by using a cheap, small TV aerial. It's not omnidirectional, so I have to point it in the correct direction, but that is hardly an onerous task. So far this year I struggled to get a signal once because we were in a cutting, but we couldn't get a strong internet connection there either: I moved!

 

We do have a smart TV and we can use the phone as a hot spot, but needing to do so is very rare for us.

 

 

I don't think it's a case of *needing* to get rid of the Freeview setup and use streaming, it's that since more and more boats have a good wireless internet setup nowadays this can do very much the same job -- all via streaming of course, which means not all Freeview channels are available, but equally means many other non-broadcast-TV sources are available, both TV/video and music.

 

There's also a wide choice of high-quality and/or low-cost monitors of all sizes with excellent resolution and screen quality, where the small TVs are often poorer quality since they're the "orphan children" of TV suppliers.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I don't think it's a case of *needing* to get rid of the Freeview setup and use streaming, it's that since more and more boats have a good wireless internet setup nowadays this can do very much the same job -- all via streaming of course, which means not all Freeview channels are available, but equally means many other non-broadcast-TV sources are available, both TV/video and music.

 

There's also a wide choice of high-quality and/or low-cost monitors of all sizes with excellent resolution and screen quality, where the small TVs are often poorer quality since they're the "orphan children" of TV suppliers.

A lot of the revenue for TV makers these days is selling customers viewing habits to advertisers. Hence the relatively few small dumb TVs you see for sale now. They just aren't as profitable as "smart" ones. Streaming is great for spying on your customers viewing habits.

[robtheplod]

I think the major benefit of streaming is you're not tied to programme schedules... its all on demand and hence all recorded for you to watch at your leisure and much much more content... why would you want to be tied to a set time when you're on a boat...

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I think the major benefit of streaming is you're not tied to programme schedules... its all on demand and hence all recorded for you to watch at your leisure and much much more content... why would you want to be tied to a set time when you're on a boat...

You do know that Freeview gives you access to already-broadcast programmes as well as live TV?

 

Having said that, one problem with it is that there's no way to skip adverts if you're watching ITV/all4 or any of the other non-BBC channels, you have to sit through them.

 

With streaming you can get rid of all the adverts (from almost all sources!) using ad-blocking technology like a Pi-hole... 🙂 

 

21 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A lot of the revenue for TV makers these days is selling customers viewing habits to advertisers. Hence the relatively few small dumb TVs you see for sale now. They just aren't as profitable as "smart" ones. Streaming is great for spying on your customers viewing habits.

Do you really care?

 

If you object to such tracking meaning targeted adverts, you can get rid of them -- actually, *all* adverts, targeted or not... 😉 

Edited August 1, 2024 by IanD

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Do you really care?

 

If you object to such tracking meaning targeted adverts, you can get rid of them -- actually, *all* adverts, targeted or not... 😉 

Not hugely, but I do take the trouble to de-advert my life as much as possible. Very low grade information, not worth having impinging on my neurons!

[IanD]

Just now, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Not hugely, but I do take the trouble to de-advert my life as much as possible. Very low grade information, not worth having impinging on my neurons!

Agreed 100%. As I said, there is a solution to the online/streaming advert problem... 😉 

[Bargebuilder]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

You do know that Freeview gives you access to already-broadcast programmes as well as live TV?

 

Having said that, one problem with it is that there's no way to skip adverts if you're watching ITV/all4 or any of the other non-BBC channels, you have to sit through them.

 

With streaming you can get rid of all the adverts (from almost all sources!) using ad-blocking technology like a Pi-hole... 🙂 

All true, but if you don't already have an unlimited internet contract, why pay about £20 every month when your £10 TV aerial will last for many years?

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

All true, but if you don't already have an unlimited internet contract, why pay about £20 every month when your £10 TV aerial will last for many years?

 

Which is what I said -- "...for boats which already have a good wireless internet setup...", meaning plenty of data... 😉 

 

Nobody's saying you should get rid of your TV if you don't want to and haven't got the capacity for streaming, then it's the best solution for you.

 

But with more and more boats having (and relying on!) internet access like this, broadcast TV is becoming less and less necessary -- which is why many no longer use it.

Edited August 1, 2024 by IanD

[Hudds Lad]

What you want is a small, unobtrusive sat dish like this boat  

 

 

[booke23]

13 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

All true, but if you don't already have an unlimited internet contract, why pay about £20 every month when your £10 TV aerial will last for many years?

 

Good point. It's also worth mentioning the user experience of using a Freeview/Freesat is much slicker than streaming, which is clunky and fragmented across multiple apps. Someday this might change of course. 

[robtheplod]

18 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Good point. It's also worth mentioning the user experience of using a Freeview/Freesat is much slicker than streaming, which is clunky and fragmented across multiple apps. Someday this might change of course. 

Roku is very slick and streams.....

[Jon57]

27 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

What you want is a small, unobtrusive sat dish like this boat  

 

 

That's their wok drying. 😁

[booke23]

19 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Roku is very slick and streams.....

 

If you think a Roku is slick, you should try an Amazon Firestick 4k Max....your mind will be blown!

 

For me still not as slick as a Freeview/Freesat box. 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

If you think a Roku is slick, you should try an Amazon Firestick 4k Max....your mind will be blown!

 

For me still not as slick as a Freeview/Freesat box. 

 

Agreed -- and even less slick than a Freeview+ box which can record, so you can skip ads on playback... 😉 

 

But there's also a lot to be said to having only one UI/remote to learn for all your TV/video/music/streaming applications instead of two...

[Hudds Lad]

5 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

If you think a Roku is slick, you should try an Amazon Firestick 4k Max....your mind will be blown!

 

For me still not as slick as a Freeview/Freesat box. 

Rob isn't a fan of Amazon.

 

We use a Firestick for most things streaming like YouTube, Prime, Netflix, NHK World (when the sumo is on), Iplayer etc., and a micro PC for running SkyGo to view F1 & Eurosport.

Only downside is Netflix throwing it's dummy, only workround i've found so far is to name the boat WiFi the same as our home WiFi and bring the firestick home with us and make sure i log Netflix in on the home network a day or so before going to the boat, this seems to placate it enough to last a week or so before it spits the dummy again and asks if we're travelling.

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Rob isn't a fan of Amazon.

 

We use a Firestick for most things streaming like YouTube, Prime, Netflix, NHK World (when the sumo is on), Iplayer etc., and a micro PC for running SkyGo to view F1 & Eurosport.

Only downside is Netflix throwing it's dummy, only workround i've found so far is to name the boat WiFi the same as our home WiFi and bring the firestick home with us and make sure i log Netflix in on the home network a day or so before going to the boat, this seems to placate it enough to last a week or so before it spits the dummy again and asks if we're travelling.

 

AFAIK Netflix is quite happy with you travelling (e.g. home to boat) if that's what you're doing. The reason for introducing this check was the large number of people who were either "lending" their Netflix login to others or using it on multiple TVs (or in different locations as the same time) when they've only paid for the cheapest deal which doesn't allow this. It's hardly "spitting the dummy", seems quite reasonable to me -- so long as they *do* allow travelling... 😉 

[Hudds Lad]

15 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

AFAIK Netflix is quite happy with you travelling (e.g. home to boat) if that's what you're doing. The reason for introducing this check was the large number of people who were either "lending" their Netflix login to others or using it on multiple TVs (or in different locations as the same time) when they've only paid for the cheapest deal which doesn't allow this. It's hardly "spitting the dummy", seems quite reasonable to me -- so long as they *do* allow travelling... 😉 

I refer to the app spitting the dummy, not the company, i'm fully aware of why it happens thanks  

You can only tell it you're travelling once or twice before it locks you out and wants reconnecting to the home network its registered at.

Since i made the SSID names the same i've not seen the "Are you travelling?" message, but not sure if that is the cure or the bringing it home. Previous to this it would pop usually on the second night when location had changed. One of these days i'll chance it and leave it onboard and risk the wrath of she who must be obeyed to test the theory.

It's no great hardship to unplug it from the back and bring it home, just offering a solution.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I refer to the app spitting the dummy, not the company, i'm fully aware of why it happens thanks  

You can only tell it you're travelling once or twice before it locks you out and wants reconnecting to the home network its registered at.

Since i made the SSID names the same i've not seen the "Are you travelling?" message, but not sure if that is the cure or the bringing it home. Previous to this it would pop usually on the second night when location had changed. One of these days i'll chance it and leave it onboard and risk the wrath of she who must be obeyed to test the theory.

It's no great hardship to unplug it from the back and bring it home, just offering a solution.

 

I'm confused -- I thought that if you move locations (e.g. from home with one SSID to boat with a different SSID) it asks you once, and is then OK until you move back home when it asks again?

[Hudds Lad]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I'm confused -- I thought that if you move locations (e.g. from home with one SSID to boat with a different SSID) it asks you once, and is then OK until you move back home when it asks again?

I can only go by how it behaved before i matched the names, no idea of the intricacies of how it checks.

 

So previously the account (regardless of device) would be logged into a network called, lets say "home", then when plugged in on the boat would be connected to one called "boat". First night fine, move location second night and up comes the "are you travelling?", yes no problem, move location third night and then you get something along the lines of "this device must be connected to it's home network, you have used all your codes for the current period" and kick you out.

 

Now when plugged in on the boat it connects to a network also called "home" and i've not seen the travelling message since.

 

In both examples the boat internet has been from the same provider which is always on, the firestick would be constantly connected to it for the duration of our trip, the only variable would i suppose be the location of the towers it would acquire the connection from every time we move.

 

I don't know if it's my "fix" that has stopped the check message, the way Netflix checks location has eased, or something entirely different that i haven't thought of. Happy to hear anyone else's thoughts.

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I can only go by how it behaved before i matched the names, no idea of the intricacies of how it checks.

 

So previously the account (regardless of device) would be logged into a network called, lets say "home", then when plugged in on the boat would be connected to one called "boat". First night fine, move location second night and up comes the "are you travelling?", yes no problem, move location third night and then you get something along the lines of "this device must be connected to it's home network, you have used all your codes for the current period" and kick you out.

 

Now when plugged in on the boat it connects to a network also called "home" and i've not seen the travelling message since.

 

In both examples the boat internet has been from the same provider which is always on, the firestick would be constantly connected to it for the duration of our trip, the only variable would i suppose be the location of the towers it would acquire the connection from every time we move.

 

I don't know if it's my "fix" that has stopped the check message, the way Netflix checks location has eased, or something entirely different that i haven't thought of. Happy to hear anyone else's thoughts.

Hmm, I've only used Netflix on the boat occasionally so maybe I just haven't seen this problem yet -- or maybe Netflix got so many complaints that they changed the way the "travelling" check works?

 

If the Firestick connects to the internet via the boat's router it would have no way to tell that you've moved between towers.

[booke23]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Agreed -- and even less slick than a Freeview+ box which can record, so you can skip ads on playback... 😉 

 

Absolutely, which is my setup in the house (albeit Freesat+).