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SLOW DOWN! or maybe not…


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Anser hook, or is it pin?, below the letter 'F'.

Ideal for so doing.

 

IMG_7667.thumb.jpeg.7508fe1e9f9e761bfd707b770ca31b62.jpeg

 

(And yes, it is a very shiny boat but pic taken only a couple of hours after leaving the paint dock)

Edited by Victor Vectis
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20 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Moored at Westport Lake, just had a few boats going past and all set our boat bouncing and banging somewhat. Were they going too fast? Not really. The mooring ring spacing is sub-optimal. So I have just been out and added a spring at the stern, ie taken a line forward to the next ring, and tightened the ropes properly so the boat can’t move fore/aft. Took about 2 minutes. Now another boat has just come past, fairly fast. Our boat didn’t move at all. How often do you see boats moored with a spring? Hardly ever.

So I say that every person who shouts “SLOW DOWN” or even thinks of doing so, or likes to whinge about boats passing too fast on here,  only does so because they don’t know how to tie their boat up properly. (With possible dispensation for being moored on pins).

We had the same problem at Westport Lake, and adopted the same solution -- except using mooring rings a bit closer together than the boat length, and running springs to the anchor loops welded to the gunwales with carabiners through them. Similar to this photo from last year (taken before I worked out how to do it properly without the diagonal rope rubbing on the cabin corners!) so there are two attachment points (rings) on the bank (also much easier with mooring spikes, use two crossed pairs) and four on the boat. Result, no movement... 🙂 

 

Yes in theory the loops could be trip hazards, which is why they're painted bright red -- and nobody's tripped over them, at least so far... 😉 

 

springlines.jpg

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Oh, for the luxury of rings to moor on. Or should I say rings spaced so that you can moor on them. There is a suboptimal boat length of 48 to 52 feet where mooring on the usually installed ring spacing is very difficult.

I wonder what spacing was originally specified and for what boat length it was thought to be optimal.

 

The whole subject changes of course if you have to drive pins in the soft, unstable, overgrowth covered towpath that most of us have to try to anchor our boats to.

Today I have spent an hour chopping down Giant Hogweed in an attempt to find a suitable site for driving pins in to the towpath, edged with coir rolls, which are now supporting the invasive weed.

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18 minutes ago, IanD said:

We had the same problem at Westport Lake, and adopted the same solution -- except using mooring rings a bit closer together than the boat length, and running springs to the anchor loops welded to the gunwales with carabiners through them. Similar to this photo from last year (taken before I worked out how to do it properly without the diagonal rope rubbing on the cabin corners!) so there are two attachment points (rings) on the bank (also much easier with mooring spikes, use two crossed pairs) and four on the boat. Result, no movement... 🙂 

 

Yes in theory the loops could be trip hazards, which is why they're painted bright red -- and nobody's tripped over them, at least so far... 😉 

 

springlines.jpg

You really need to tie one of the rings off or the boat can move back and forth with the rope running through the ring. You may of course have done that with the stern line, I cant quite see, but I often see boats moored just as your bow is. 

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When boats move on water, they push the water about, so any boat moored on the water will move.

 

With caravans it's the wind that moves them about.

 

Never really understood the desire to be on water but not move.

 

Rog

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28 minutes ago, hider said:

There is a suboptimal boat length of 48 to 52 feet where mooring on the usually installed ring spacing is very difficult.

I wonder what spacing was originally specified and for what boat length it was thought to be optimal.

Not 70 ft! 

I reckon whoever specifies ring spacing thinks everyone has a 55-60 ft long boat.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, IanD said:

We had the same problem at Westport Lake, and adopted the same solution -- except using mooring rings a bit closer together than the boat length, and running springs to the anchor loops welded to the gunwales with carabiners through them. Similar to this photo from last year (taken before I worked out how to do it properly without the diagonal rope rubbing on the cabin corners!) so there are two attachment points (rings) on the bank (also much easier with mooring spikes, use two crossed pairs) and four on the boat. Result, no movement... 🙂 

 

Yes in theory the loops could be trip hazards, which is why they're painted bright red -- and nobody's tripped over them, at least so far... 😉 

 

springlines.jpg


 

Slightly sub-optimal I would say, because the rope can circulate through the ring. Better to have effectively 2 separate ropes, one to the ring and back and one to the other ring (and back, if long enough). This is how I have done it. Front is just tied normally as it is where we normally embark/disembark and the boat is constrained for fore-aft movement by the 2 lines at the stern.

 

IMG_0357.png.84c2e931728d2499ecd73f25292ded64.png

Edited by nicknorman
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44 minutes ago, hider said:

Today I have spent an hour chopping down Giant Hogweed in an attempt to find a suitable site for driving pins in to the towpath, edged with coir rolls, which are now supporting the invasive weed.

 

Are you serious about chopping down Giant Hogweed? The sap is pretty nasty stuff, and could be a danger to you or any passers by after cutting. 

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There should be some distinction between boats moored for lengthy periods and those tied up for a spot of lunch.

 

Taking the eternal Golden Nook as an example of the former,  there shouldn't be any real grumbles if boats pass through a bit above tickover.  The moorers can tie-up better/well if they are bothered by a bit of movement.

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Mooring on rings can be problematic for setting up a spring line but I have been known to use the centre line either going well forward to a ring or well back to one to create a spring line (doesn't seem to tilt the boat quite so much then).

 

Most other places I try to moor on Armco and a few years back I acquired a short length of rope (about 1.5metres I would guess) with a spliced loop on one end and a 'nappy pin' on the other. First thing I do when mooring up is put the loop of this over the stern mooring bollard on the boat and drop the 'nappy pin' into the armco. Stern now temporarily moored I then go and tie off the front pulling the boat as far back onto the rear mooring as I can, and then go back to the stern and tie off the actual mooring line on a chain putting tension on the mooring line with the 'nappy pin'. Once moored like that you may come past me at what speed you like because my for and aft movement is going to be minimal.  

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

Yes in theory the loops could be trip hazards, which is why they're painted bright red -- and nobody's tripped over them, at least so far... 😉 

 

springlines.jpg

The loops are definitely trip hazards - with the risk mitigated by the red paint.  But there's lots of hazards in life - and the remaining risk of someone coming a cropper might be worth taking.

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6 minutes ago, Morris said:

 

Are you serious about chopping down Giant Hogweed? The sap is pretty nasty stuff, and could be a danger to you or any passers by after cutting. 

Don't care, I have to moor. I will not handle it at all.

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43 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You really need to tie one of the rings off or the boat can move back and forth with the rope running through the ring. You may of course have done that with the stern line, I cant quite see, but I often see boats moored just as your bow is. 

Apart from it looking a little odd, I’ve wondered about this too, maybe it makes no difference if as you say the rope can’t slide back and forth through the ring,


two separate ropes tied to two different points on the bank, seems to work well

for me, even if the second rope has to be 20’ or more, and I’ve found one spring line from the back to be enough,
 

Although sometimes I’ll use a combination of 2 goat chains and 2 nappy pins when moored to Armco. 
 


 

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

You really need to tie one of the rings off or the boat can move back and forth with the rope running through the ring. You may of course have done that with the stern line, I cant quite see, but I often see boats moored just as your bow is. 

That's why I said "before I learned to do it properly" -- I was just using the photo to show how to do springs using one point on the bank and two in the boat rather than the other way round... 😉 

 

Now I make sure the rope is looped through the ring (or round the mooring spikes) and round itself so that it can't move back and forwards through the ring, just like you and nick pointed out (but I don't have a photo of) -- each length of rope has to be secured so it can't move.

 

16 minutes ago, Tacet said:

The loops are definitely trip hazards - with the risk mitigated by the red paint.  But there's lots of hazards in life - and the remaining risk of someone coming a cropper might be worth taking.

Everything in boats is a tradeoff; I'm aware of the trip hazard but decided it was more useful to have the extra anchor loops, which have been very useful on several occasions when there were only two accessible mooring rings on the bank (like at Westport Lake) -- or when I used two crossed pairs of mooring spikes in softer ground so they don't pull out.

Edited by IanD
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5 minutes ago, IanD said:

 😉

Everything in boats is a tradeoff; I'm aware of the trip hazard but decided it was more useful to have the extra anchor loops, which have been very useful on several occasions when there were only two accessible mooring rings on the bank (like at Westport Lake) -- or when I used two crossed pairs of mooring spikes in softer ground so they don't pull out.

So was it the trip or the hazard that was theoretical in your earlier post? 😉

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20 minutes ago, hider said:

Don't care, I have to moor. I will not handle it at all.

If it is Giant Hogweed, not just Common Hogweed, I urge you to report it to CRT please. I'm sure they have a duty of care to remove hazardous plants where people might come into contact with them, and Giant Hogweed can have nasty effects lasting for years.

 

Just checked and they do want it reported:

 

image.png.da7a842a786115b5e6273f2ed87a6b7b.png

This is that online link: Ways to contact us | Canal & River Trust (canalrivertrust.org.uk)

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24 minutes ago, Tacet said:

So was it the trip or the hazard that was theoretical in your earlier post? 😉

 

I thought what I said was pretty clear; there's a small risk that sooner or later somebody might trip over them, but it hasn't happened yet. However they've proved very useful on several occasions. In my view, the usefulness outweighs the risks. Other opinions are available.

 

The only way to have zero risk is to do nothing, especially on the canals... 😉 

Edited by IanD
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My impression is, that some boaters quite enjoy the confrontation of bellowing 'SLOW DOWN'. I've even noticed that some leave their mooring ropes deliberately slack for greater effect. The K&A is particularly bad for people with such an attitude: not that I ever speed of course!

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4 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

My impression is, that some boaters quite enjoy the confrontation of bellowing 'SLOW DOWN'. I've even noticed that some leave their mooring ropes deliberately slack for greater effect. The K&A is particularly bad for people with such an attitude: not that I ever speed of course!

They don't only have slack ropes, they have them close to a right angle with the bank, which pretty much guarantees that a) the boat is going to slosh backwards and forwards, and b) the increased tension due to the almost-right-angle is going to either slacken the ropes off even more or pull any mooring pins out...

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Just now, IanD said:

They don't only have slack ropes, they have them close to a right angle with the bank, which pretty much guarantees that a) the boat is going to slosh backwards and forwards, and b) the increased tension due to the almost-right-angle is going to either slacken the ropes off even more or pull any mooring pins out...

Oh they certainly do have slack ropes, such that the stern swings out several feet into the canal as you pass. I even passed one with a canoe along the side on a long rope that swung right across the waterway. 

 

You are right of course, that even with tight ropes, with no springs a moored boat may surge forwards and backwards, but then they would have no reason to complain.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

My impression is, that some boaters quite enjoy the confrontation of bellowing 'SLOW DOWN'. I've even noticed that some leave their mooring ropes deliberately slack for greater effect. The K&A is particularly bad for people with such an attitude: not that I ever speed of course!

Wet rope syndrome, where the rope between the T stud and the mooring ring is dangling in the water  

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