Boat headlights amps and cable size

[Redhawk106]

Quick question regarding boat headlights and cable size.

 

I just ordered these from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07C144KGT?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

They are 4.5 inch 30W Black LED Fog Lights normally used for motorbikes.

 

The reason I picked these is that they have to fit in the circular mounts at the front of the boat, and these lights look almost identical (in size) to those previously in there. (Theres only one, but not working one left, the other is missing). The mounts are for 2 lights at the front of the boat.

 

Question is, are these actually suitable, because now that I look at the wiring, and the voltage drop calculator at 12V Planet, it seems the draw is 5Amps (30x2/12) and the cross section for that over a 15m single (30m there and back) cable run (Boat is 17m long) would need to be 6mm^2. Which seems way thicker than the cables that are currently running to the lights, or thicker than any of the 12V cables I've so far found on the boat.

 

Did I do the calculation wrong, or are these totally the wrong lights?

 

Photo of the lights attached, but probably doesn't help for the question, just context

 

Edited July 19 by Redhawk106

[Rob-M]

Planning on blinding any on coming boats in a tunnel with your twin super bright LEDs...?

[Tony Brooks]

Try them on your existing cable. I very much doubt it will be unsafe at 5 amps unless it is bell wire.

 

Just checking that, you realise that the 6 sq mm is Conductor Cross Sectional Area, not the whole cable cross-sectional area. As long as the LED electronics don't get upset, the excess volt drop on thinner cable should not prevent them working, possibly at a lower light intensity. 28/0.30mm cable is safe for more than 5 amps (about 17 amps I think), but may cause volt drop, that size is fairly common on boats.

 

Even 14/0.30 (2.6 sq mm CCSA can safely carry around 8 amps, but that is thin cable and I think you need more strands of thinner area to meet best practice and some regs.

[booke23]

I'd also test them out and see if the beam pattern is to your liking. As they are Fog lights they will have a flat wide beam not well suited as tunnel lights. My boat has one of those round LED tunnel lights and it's amazingly good....the beam is large, round and diffused so perfect for tunnels. 

[nicknorman]

30w of LED lighting will be far too bright, expect every opposite direction boat to crash into you and give you lots of abuse. But at least you will be able to clearly see their rage. Might make a good TickTock video.

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

30w of LED lighting will be far too bright, expect every opposite direction boat to crash into you and give you lots of abuse. But at least you will be able to clearly see their rage. Might make a good TickTock video.

 

This subject has been done to death, but I will still add a bit more.....had real difficulty in Braunston tunnel last week, could see two lights approaching, one above the other (mega bright small headlight and reflection in water). I thought it was close and pulled over but the boat never came, went on a bit, sure it was close and pulled over but again I was wrong. So thinking about this, when the approaching boat is a way off one just sees the light as a point source, when it gets close its light picks out the tunnel wall, time to slow down, when really close the outline of the boat becomes visible, time to really slow down and pull right over. With a mega bright approaching headlight none of this happens, you just see the light and nothing else and get no clues about distance, and with loss of night vision struggle to see how close to the edge your own boat is. Bright headlights in tunnels are really bad news.  Maybe these new fangled LED jobbies should have a dimmer switch so that full brighness can be used only when you are sure you are alone?

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, booke23 said:

I'd also test them out and see if the beam pattern is to your liking. As they are Fog lights they will have a flat wide beam not well suited as tunnel lights. My boat has one of those round LED tunnel lights and it's amazingly good....the beam is large, round and diffused so perfect for tunnels. 

 

It looks as if the OP can fit them upside down, so the bulk of the beam is at the top of the tunnel  and the sharp cut-off just might helps avoid on coming dazzle, especially the fittings can be angled upwards.

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It looks as if the OP can fit them upside down, so the bulk of the beam is at the top of the tunnel  and the sharp cut-off just might helps avoid on coming dazzle, especially the fittings can be angled upwards.

I don't think it makes much difference where they point, the bright white light illuminating everything just kills your night vision and as @dmr said above you can't judge where the oncoming boat is.  Our last trip out has been the worse for dragging along tunnel walls as I got over far too early in both Braunston and Blisworth.  Also had the trip boat at Blisworth that just puts his bows in the tunnel entrance and turns on a massive search light to illuminated everything, at this point I just stopped and waited as I didn't have a clue what was going on.

[Ronaldo47]

The dipped filament of a traditional dual filament car headlamp bulb  has an internal metal shield so that an approaching driver does not have a direct view of the dipped filament. Most modern LEDs I have encountered have no such anti-dazzle provision, possibly the reason why so many people (myself included) complain about being dazzled by modern car headlights.

[dmr]

I don't like long tunnels at all, but they are sort of magical. Our headlight casts just a gentle arc of light around the tunnel so I can keep the boat in the middle. I put the nav lights on and these are mounted at the back of the boat so put a gentle glow onto the walls so I can see that the back is central. A big bright light would wreck the magic for me as well as everybody else. It's also nice to have a quick word with the steerer of any passing boats and you can't enjoy that without a bit of night vision.

[Redhawk106]

Thanks for all the replies. I knew the wattage sounded crazy high, but as they were motorbike side lights I figured they won't be as bright as the main motorbike light, and also figured your boat light needed to be bright. But sounds like it should not be.

 

Perhaps the voltage drop would indeed then be a good thing and drop the brightness somewhat. Thanks for covering the technical part of the question Tony.

 

I'm than happy to return these and get lower wattage lights, but it's been quite hard to find suitable ones at a decent price. I just want some lights to fit the existing holes in the mounts, I don't NEED them to be as bright as these are.

 

Then there's the connectors. Even finding those on Amazon has been tricky as plenty reviews complain about melting and only suitable for low power. I do have some waterproof cable connectors, but seems a shame to cut off the ones the lights came with. 

 

But TL;DR, clearly several people think these are too bright and wrong beam shape. Im happy to swap as long as they are round and 4.5 inch diameter roughly, but struggled to find others so far.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Redhawk106 said:

Thanks for all the replies. I knew the wattage sounded crazy high, but as they were motorbike side lights I figured they won't be as bright as the main motorbike light, and also figured your boat light needed to be bright. But sounds like it should not be.

 

Back in the day an oil lamp would have been used, and plenty bright enough once your eyes become accustomed and no blinding from oncoming oil lamps! 

 

Sadly though, the world and its dog now thinks the brighter the better. No thanks to cheap LED lamps as bright as the sun. 

 

Similar problem exists with cyclists who think a front light brighter than a car headlamp on main beam is safer and better. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Back in the day an oil lamp would have been used, and plenty bright enough once your eyes become accustomed and no blinding from oncoming oil lamps! 

 

Sadly though, the world and its dog now thinks the brighter the better. No thanks to cheap LED lamps as bright as the sun. 

 

Similar problem exists with cyclists who think a front light brighter than a car headlamp on main beam is safer and better. 

 

 

 

Oil lamp? We used to dream of having an oil lamp. Only posh boaters on shiny boats had oil lamps. When I were a lass, the canal company would allow us one geriatric glow worm to see'us way through 'tunnels and we were glad to have it too.

 

The new LED lamps have the advantage of being so bright they will blast the Harecastle boggart to ectoplasm fragments. They'll vaporise a swimming cow, or other hazard to navigation in the Foulridge Tunnel at a distance of 100 yards. They can be too powerful though. At some point the extra light from the red glowing incandescent brick work of the tunnel lining is counteracted by the rising steam from the boiling water.

[Bod]

This is what I have fitted, just the one, mounted on the starboard side of the front bulk head.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166838356187?chn=ps&_ul=GB&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1foJ_Fpd3SreAMBBsw0kDcA16&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=166838356187&targetid=1816181028419&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1006524&poi=&campaignid=19090194174&mkgroupid=147009364227&rlsatarget=pla-1816181028419&abcId=9303860&merchantid=101729756&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwnei0BhB-EiwAA2xuBuy-FLOflTq1qBVBnXslsuvhi1CFHgLi0fMwOArsnIHGeM9yoxa_rxoCT8EQAvD_BwE

As a regular user of the Crick, and Braunston tunnels, the light spread is more than adequate, and has never been complained about.

I fully agree with the comments regarding over bright, badly adjusted LED and Francis search lights.  They are totally unacceptable and downright dangerous to on coming boats, along with crew taking flash photos.

I have been known to robustly advise boats about the adjustment of the tunnel lights.

For information, the light should be adjusted to illuminatethe top right hand tunnel side. 

 

 

[LadyG]

I have my light facing nearly vertical not forwards, admittedly I've only been though a fairly short tunnel  but I could see as much as I needed.

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, Redhawk106 said:

ut as they were motorbike side lights I figured they won't be as bright as the main motorbike light,

 

Ah, I had not taken that in. side lamps would have no defied beam or cut-off, so I suspect the will b every unsuitable and whenever you point them are likely to cause dazzle.

[Melvin]

I've just had a new led headlight fitted - Durite work lamp - 9 x3w leds. But I'll tilt it to point to the roof just ahead of the boat which helps me steer and not blind oncoming boats. Basic common sense boating.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

Oil lamp? We used to dream of having an oil lamp. Only posh boaters on shiny boats had oil lamps. When I were a lass, the canal company would allow us one geriatric glow worm to see'us way through 'tunnels and we were glad to have it too.

 

The new LED lamps have the advantage of being so bright they will blast the Harecastle boggart to ectoplasm fragments. They'll vaporise a swimming cow, or other hazard to navigation in the Foulridge Tunnel at a distance of 100 yards. They can be too powerful though. At some point the extra light from the red glowing incandescent brick work of the tunnel lining is counteracted by the rising steam from the boiling water.

 

As a suggestion, I think all boaters should check the brightness and dazzle of their own tunnel lamps. They can do this with following simple procedure:

 

1) Cruise half a mile into Braunston or Blisworth tunnel

2) Moor up to something or other

3) Leaving the tunnel lamp ON, dive into the canal and swim up a few hundred yards up ahead

4) Turn around and swim back to the boat.

 

If during the return journey they are dazzled by their own tunnel lamp, then it is too bright and/or badly adjusted. 

 

Hope that helps.

 

(And watch out for vaporised swimming cows. These too would suggest your light is a bit bright.)

 

 

[Rob-M]

Or just wait till they pass me in the tunnel as I'll tell them there tunnel lamp is bloody blinding.

 

I told one recently and he hadn't even entered Braunston tunnel but his twin LED lights were blinding me in daylight.

[BEngo]

When looking at headlamp voltage drop it is worth remwmbering that the headlamp is normally ON only when the engine is running (unless you are intending  to leg Dudley Tunnel) .  That mean the input voltage will be at least  13.4 V and perhaps as high as 14.6  so a volt or so of drop is entirely OK.

 

 I think the OP might find an acceptable solution is to fit both  lamps,  but only connect one.  That will give plenty of light, ( and less volt drop),  not dazzle if pointed correctly  and the other one is rapidly available as a  spare.

 

N

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, BEngo said:

not dazzle if pointed correctly 

 

Not true if it really is a side lamp, they have a very wide angle "beam", unlike headlamps, fog, driving lamps where the beams are controlled, some with a sharp cut-off to avoid dazzle.

[Peanut]

A Carbide lamp would resolve the problem of voltage drop, and provide soft, warm, non-glary illumination.

Edited July 20 by Peanut
correct light to lamp

[Rob-M]

2 hours ago, BEngo said:

unless you are intending  to leg Dudley Tunnel

When we legged Dudley Tunnel the electric boat that escorted us asked for our tunnel light to be off so we didn't dazzle him when he was looking back to check on us so we didn't use one.

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Or just wait till they pass me in the tunnel as I'll tell them there tunnel lamp is bloody blinding.

 

I told one recently and he hadn't even entered Braunston tunnel but his twin LED lights were blinding me in daylight.

I had that with a day boat down the Staff and Worc

 

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Or just wait till they pass me in the tunnel as I'll tell them there tunnel lamp is bloody blinding.

 

I told one recently and he hadn't even entered Braunston tunnel but his twin LED lights were blinding me in daylight.

Or have a mirror with you, and blast their headlight back at them. Then when they complain about your headlamp you can explain what they were actually experiencing!