Overplating query

[Fitzcarraldo]

Hello there - I’m a complete novice to Narrowboat life and have an overplating issue. My insurer GJW agreed to insure me on the proviso that I get an out of water survey before they’ll insure me fully comp next year. It turns out the water line is coming in at 3.8mm, while everything else is securely over the 4mm threshold. I was wondering: is it possible to just overplate the waterline with a strip of steel to save costs? Any advice welcome. Thank you! 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Fitzcarraldo said:

I was wondering: is it possible to just overplate the waterline with a strip of steel to save costs? Any advice welcome. Thank you! 

 

Yes, but I'd suggest you dont just 'do the waterline' with a narrow strip of steel, you should do several inches both above and below the waterline - it won't cost much more as the labour cost will be pretty much the same -, just a small oncost for extra steel.

 

Just be careful that you do not add too much weight to a small boat, or a boat with engine room vents as it can affect your safety.

Bosts have sunk becuse of overplating weight.

 

What sort / size / age of boat is it ?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Thanks for your reply. It’s a small boat - 38 ft and built in 1982. 

[Arthur Marshall]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes, but I'd suggest you dont just 'do the waterline' with a narrow strip of steel, you should do several inches both above and below the waterline - it won't cost much more as the labour cost will be pretty much the same -, just a small oncost for extra steel.

 

Just be careful that you do not add too much weight to a small boat, or a boat with engine room vents as it can affect your safety.

Bosts have sunk becuse of overplating weight.

 

What sort / size / age of boat is it ?

Mines a small boat, 40ft, air cooled engine so big holes for ventilation, been overplated twice, now has three bottoms and two sides (well, four, I suppose, really) and shows no signs of sinking! I just took the ballast out.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Thanks Arthur. My boat’s in the West Midlands - Wolverhampton way. Know of any reputable welders round this way?  

[BEngo]

Ask around at Wolverhampton Boat Club and  the Hawne Basin moorers.

 

There are possibilities at  Autherley, Teddesley and Otherton but I don't know  anything about  them.  There are yards on the Shroppie at the A5 bridge and Norbury  too.

 

N

[Fitzcarraldo]

Thanks - useful tips.

[Stroudwater1]

It sounds like you’ve been very unfortunate to be .2mm out.
 

 An alternative could be to pit/ puddle weld where the losses are greatest. That will take it back to 4mm. Is the whole length 3.8mm or is it just in places? Pit welding lets metal back in then grind flat. 
 

Quite a few welders will do that for you. It could be worth asking Stretton boatyard on the Shropshire Union or Streethay boatyard on The Coventry who maybe well placed to advise. It seems to be the surveyors answer usually to over plate. It’s not always the best option. 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Great - thank you for that.  I was hoping to avoid the huge outlay of a complete overplate - the engine went kaput on its first journey too,  and I’m not holding out too much hope of a big payout, so another added expense. I don’t know about these things, so was hoping that an overplating of the waterline by itself would come in much cheaper than a complete overhaul. 

[Tonka]

What about Caggys Yard at Tipton

Or Phil Jones at Hatherton 

[hider]

Overplating or even patching the waterline with a strip 6" wide will reduce the sale value of the boat  a bit. Pit filling with weld won't but will get you insured.

The alternative is to have 3rd party only insurance. Cheaper but be sure it covers recovery from sinking.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Thank you - that sounds like the way to go. 

16 minutes ago, Tonka said:

What about Caggys Yard at Tipton

Or Phil Jones at Hatherton 

Phil and Orph at Oxley on the case about the engine as it happens - they’ve been really helpful and kind. 

[Slim]

Pit welding is well within the ability of anyone with moderate DIY skills. All you need is a fairly cheap MIG or stick welder, a stool to sit on, 4.5" grinder, appropriate PPE and time. Prepared to bet you'll do a better job than a professional as you won't be working to a time. It's also incredibly therapeutic. 

[truckcab79]

44 minutes ago, Slim said:

Pit welding is well within the ability of anyone with moderate DIY skills. All you need is a fairly cheap MIG or stick welder, a stool to sit on, 4.5" grinder, appropriate PPE and time. Prepared to bet you'll do a better job than a professional as you won't be working to a time. It's also incredibly therapeutic. 

Absolutely this.   Stick welding is very easy to learn and the cheap machines are generally brilliant these days. Try Rohr for a decent brand for very little money.  I’ve got one that will happily stick  and TIG. Worth every penny. 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Great stuff - thanks for all your help and advice - much appreciated! 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

Pit welding is well within the ability of anyone with moderate DIY skills. All you need is a fairly cheap MIG or stick welder, a stool to sit on, 4.5" grinder, appropriate PPE and time. Prepared to bet you'll do a better job than a professional as you won't be working to a time. It's also incredibly therapeutic. 

Which you will not have if the boat is in dry dock or on a slipway. So you need the boat craned out onto the hard where the liftout cost is more, but the per week cost staying there is less.

[ditchcrawler]

No one has mentioned Martin Kedian  who sometimes posts on here 

[Tonka]

22 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No one has mentioned Martin Kedian  who sometimes posts on here 

He is nearer Napton then Wolverhampton

[Redhawk106]

From what I understand, you don't actually need to figure out what needs overplating, sure be informed, but the actual decision is written in your survey report by the surveyor who did the survey and measurements on your boat. The welder then goes by that, and the insurance will sign off as long as it was overplayed to the spec of the surveyor. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm relatively new to boating too, but that's the process we went through. 

 

Our welder thought the size of overplating specified by the surveyor was OTT, but he said that's what he'll do because that's what the survey states.

Edited July 18, 2024 by Redhawk106

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, Tonka said:

He is nearer Napton then Wolverhampton

OK. I didn't know where he was based 

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

OK. I didn't know where he was based 

Well I am not 100% sure. I know he has done a lot in the Calcutt area

[Bee]

2 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Absolutely this.   Stick welding is very easy to learn and the cheap machines are generally brilliant these days. Try Rohr for a decent brand for very little money.  I’ve got one that will happily stick  and TIG. Worth every penny. 

I have an ancient Clarke stick welder, works fine but has virtually no resale value, if someone would like it then collect it from Ironbridge, OK for welding pits. Free but a donation for a charity would be nice. Have recently bought a mig

[truckcab79]

Very generous offer  
 

I have a Clarke 180amp mig also. Nice kit. Only takes marginally more to learn than stick. Massive in comparison to arc.  Only pain is the cost / availability of gas if you’re not using regularly. I tend to use gasless more often than not for convenience though it’s nowhere near as nice to do.  Once you can weld there’s no end to the stuff you can make and repair.
 

Recently picked up a cheap plasma cutter for added fun too. 👍

Edited July 18, 2024 by truckcab79

[Fitzcarraldo]

17 hours ago, Bee said:

I have an ancient Clarke stick welder, works fine but has virtually no resale value, if someone would like it then collect it from Ironbridge, OK for welding pits. Free but a donation for a charity would be nice. Have recently bought a mig

That’s a very generous offer and thank you - happy to donate to a charity of your choice. I’m not too far from Ironbridge, so could pick up whenever convenient for you. 
Many thanks,

Dougal

[dmr]

16 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Very generous offer  
 

I have a Clarke 180amp mig also. Nice kit. Only takes marginally more to learn than stick. Massive in comparison to arc.  Only pain is the cost / availability of gas if you’re not using regularly. I tend to use gasless more often than not for convenience though it’s nowhere near as nice to do.  Once you can weld there’s no end to the stuff you can make and repair.
 

Recently picked up a cheap plasma cutter for added fun too. 👍

 

Interesting comment, I thought the concensus was that stick is harder to learn than MIG. I was originally taught to gas weld, then moved on to MIG. Recently I have been teaching myself to stick weld and am only just starting to get some neat and tidy welds after quite a few hours.