Entitled Historic Boat Owners

[billS]

Witnessed the Narrowboat Trust pair fail to negotiate a bridge hole without damaging the infrastructure today on the North Oxford. Watched them fail to leave the Wey without damaging someone else's boat a few years ago.

 

 

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, billS said:

Witnessed the Narrowboat Trust pair fail to negotiate a bridge hole without damaging the infrastructure today on the North Oxford. Watched them fail to leave the Wey without damaging someone else's boat a few years ago.

 

 

are you saying they damaged the bridge

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Ok I give in. Historic boats should be allowed to moor on broken lock landings as per the proposal I was quibbling with!

 

😄

I knew that grammatical structure would cause confusion. I apologise profusely.

[billS]

32 minutes ago, Tonka said:

are you saying they damaged the bridge

 

Let's just say they added to the wear and tear a bit. 

[GUMPY]

56 minutes ago, billS said:

Witnessed the Narrowboat Trust pair fail to negotiate a bridge hole without damaging the infrastructure today on the North Oxford. Watched them fail to leave the Wey without damaging someone else's boat a few years ago.

 

 

They hit my boat once as I pulled over to let them through, told me it was all my fault. Bunch of .....

[Rob-M]

When I met them on Thursday approaching a blind bridge on a bend they had someone on the towpath who had gone ahead and when he saw me approaching went back to signal to the motor steerer so he slowed and was ready to pass me as I came through the bridge so no dramas.

 

The thing I find volunteering with the heritage working boats is we don't go out often enough and many of the volunteers don't have their own boat so aren't out boating at other times.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I do not think that 'work' boats = (once) 'working' boats

I thought the term was ‘Ex working boat’ for them on show anyway. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, billS said:

 

Let's just say they added to the wear and tear a bit. 

Just like hundreds of other boats, of all types, do.

[alan_fincher]

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

Just like hundreds of other boats, of all types, do.

 

Exactly this!

[Stroudwater1]

12 hours ago, billS said:

Witnessed the Narrowboat Trust pair fail to negotiate a bridge hole without damaging the infrastructure today on the North Oxford. Watched them fail to leave the Wey without damaging someone else's boat a few years ago.

 

 

I’ve seen them very skillfully handled too, especially reversing at Braunston Junction. I suspect some are less experienced and building their skills up mayb. We all have to learn sometime. 
 

Can we take it that you are planning to volunteer and show them how to do it? 

[Rich Greenhall]

12 hours ago, billS said:

Witnessed the Narrowboat Trust pair fail to negotiate a bridge hole without damaging the infrastructure today on the North Oxford. Watched them fail to leave the Wey without damaging someone else's boat a few years ago.

 

 

I’m not new on here but first time posting, sorry but I must reply to this. The Narrowboat Trust are using this run back from Braunston as a training run there are no fewer than 4 brand new, never steering a working boat or possibly even a boat before.

it’s not ideal when anything gets bumped but I think as a rule we boat pretty well we certainly aim to but please bear in mind whenever you see our boats it could be someone steering for the first time albeit under instruction.

 

cheers Rich 

[Rich Greenhall]

11 hours ago, Rob-M said:

When I met them on Thursday approaching a blind bridge on a bend they had someone on the towpath who had gone ahead and when he saw me approaching went back to signal to the motor steerer so he slowed and was ready to pass me as I came through the bridge so no dramas.

 

The thing I find volunteering with the heritage working boats is we don't go out often enough and many of the volunteers don't have their own boat so aren't out boating at other times.

cheers Rob it was me steering at the time, by the time I recognised you you had passed

 

Rich 

[Rob-M]

9 minutes ago, Rich Greenhall said:

cheers Rob it was me steering at the time, by the time I recognised you you had passed

 

Rich 

Hi Rich, I was concentrating on giving you enough space to swing the butty round so didn't notice you steering.

[dogless]

I'm very happy that some people wish to own and maintain old working boats, and that they occasionally gather with like-minded owners as effectively, a private members club,  to chat and discuss their hobby ... same as vintage car and bike owners do.

 

Rather like thatched cottages, I love to see them but wouldn't want one.

 

It gives us mildly interested observers the chance to admire and take photos of their boats as they move around to such gatherings.

 

But it is clear their ownership of such boats is for their personal pleasure, exactly as ownership of mine is for my selfish reasons. Neither of us should pretend we are doing anyone else a favour.

 

We're all capable of demonstrating varying levels of skill at boat handling at any given moment and I'm sure that errors and misjudgement are not confined only to historic craft.

 

Many hire boats are instantly  'labelled' and incorrect assumptions made  and I'm confident the same is done with ex working boats ... the boat may be old but the crew may be novice.

 

However selfish or poor behaviour is not absolved simply by the type of boat involved.

 

Rog

 

 

[Pluto]

21 minutes ago, dogless said:

But it is clear their ownership of such boats is for their personal pleasure, exactly as ownership of mine is for my selfish reasons. Neither of us

The L&LC Society own and operate their heritage boat Kennet to bring pleasure to others, and to show the public the type of boat used on the canal. Only Kennet and Mersey are 

[Mike Tee]

49 minutes ago, Rich Greenhall said:

I’m not new on here but first time posting, sorry but I must reply to this. The Narrowboat Trust are using this run back from Braunston as a training run there are no fewer than 4 brand new, never steering a working boat or possibly even a boat before.

it’s not ideal when anything gets bumped but I think as a rule we boat pretty well we certainly aim to but please bear in mind whenever you see our boats it could be someone steering for the first time albeit under instruction.

 

cheers Rich 

If the steerer was under instruction then the (presumably experienced) instructor was at fault for not either correcting them or taking over. This isn't an individual buying a boat and learning the hard way but a professional organisation training helmsmen / women.

[Pluto]

Sorry, but my computer didn't like the last quote and wouldn't let me alter or finish it. I meant to say that the L&LCS members who look after Kennet, although they get some pleasure from the work, do it more for the general public and to promote the history of the canal. Kennet and Mersey are the only unconverted short boats on the canal, and Kennet is the only one to which the public have access. Last Sunday we had over 450 visitors on board over the day at Skipton, and though it can be a pleasure chatting to them, it is also time consuming. Heritage is one of the many factors which ensure that our canals stay open, and educating the public is an important aspect of encouraging government to keep funding the system. A few more volunteers would be a help in achieving this aim by educating the public to the benefits and heritage of our canals.

[dogless]

Your response relates to Societies, and introduces the motivation behind 'volunteering' which is a very different subject don't you think ?

 

Rog

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, dogless said:

 

However selfish or poor behaviour is not absolved simply by the type of boat involved.

 

Rog

 

This surely is the key point.
It is accepted that some steerers of historic boats (this is the correct term IMO, not working, work or ex working boats) may be novices and consequently incompetent. As said, we all have to learn! Although it also has to be said that putting an incompetent steerer in charge of a very large and heavy boat if they have never steered a boat before, might not be the best idea. One generally doesn’t learn to drive an articulated lorry before learning to drive a car.

But back to the key point which is that it is less the competence of the steerer that offends, more the entitled attitude displayed by some. But not all, of course. It is thus demonstrably not necessary to be an a***hole in order to own or steer a historic boat, so those that are do so out of their own choice. And probably it is the other way round, an a***hole is attracted to a great big monster-bowed f-off boat so they can shove it in the face of the plebs and make everyone get out of the way, in order to make themselves feel better.

Edited July 2 by nicknorman

[Lady M]

While, as with any leisure boat, there is nothing to stop a beginner from buying a historic boat, any such boats owned by a charity or other organisation will be expected by their insurer to have a suitably experienced skipper in charge of any trainee steerers. 

In fact, this is no different from my boat or yours.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

This surely is the key point.
It is accepted that some steerers of historic boats (this is the correct term IMO, not working, work or ex working boats) may be novices and consequently incompetent. As said, we all have to learn! Although it also has to be said that putting an incompetent steerer in charge of a very large and heavy boat if they have never steered a boat before, might not be the best idea. One generally doesn’t learn to drive an articulated lorry before learning to drive a car.

But back to the key point which is that it is less the competence of the steerer that offends, more the entitled attitude displayed by some. But not all, of course. It is thus demonstrably not necessary to be an a***hole in order to own or steer a historic boat, so those that are do so out of their own choice. And probably it is the other way round, an a***hole is attracted to a great big monster-bowed f-off boat so they can shove it in the face of the plebs and make everyone get out of the way, in order to make themselves feel better.

 

My first introduction to the wonderful world of boating was steering an historic boat (then called a camping boat) on a self drive holiday. Apart from it taking longer to engage reverse gear for an emergency stop, because you had to wind the speed wheel down before attempting to engage reverse with the gear lever, I don't think it was any more difficult to steer than any other boat I have experienced.

[Tonka]

19 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

My first introduction to the wonderful world of boating was steering an historic boat (then called a camping boat) on a self drive holiday. Apart from it taking longer to engage reverse gear for an emergency stop, because you had to wind the speed wheel down before attempting to engage reverse with the gear lever, I don't think it was any more difficult to steer than any other boat I have experienced.

Some larger boats steed better because 

They are less affected by the wind.

Built with longer swims and a better rudder

[Lady M]

Sightlines from the back deck can also be better.

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Sightlines from the back deck can also be better.

Forgot about that but yes you can see both sides of the bow, from the steerer's position on a 60ft camping boat 

[nicknorman]

43 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

My first introduction to the wonderful world of boating was steering an historic boat (then called a camping boat) on a self drive holiday. Apart from it taking longer to engage reverse gear for an emergency stop, because you had to wind the speed wheel down before attempting to engage reverse with the gear lever, I don't think it was any more difficult to steer than any other boat I have experienced.

Maybe no harder to steer, but as you say harder to stop in a hurry and more ability to cause damage due to the extra weight. And perhaps a converted camping boat is not quite the same a large woolwich - I don't know, never steered one.

One of the arguments used by some historic boat owners to justify their actions is "Oh well you try steering a 70' deep drafted boat and see how you get on", so one can't have the argument both ways!

 

Plus I would assume that you were quite young when you did this - young people learn 20 times faster than grey beardy types who have spent a lifetime doing something else not involving co-ordination and prediction of trajectories, and then decide they might like to try steering a monster boat. We get this in gliding - if a 15 year old joins the club, he will learn to fly in a few months. If a 65 year old joins, it's quite likely they will never go solo.

Edited July 2 by nicknorman