Entitled Historic Boat Owners

[David Mack]

46 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The first one to come past this morning, in a very unusual and non compliant(! 🤪) paint job, was floating past very serenely, with the worlds largest spliff in his mouth.

This one?

[alan_fincher]

4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Jaguar.

Really?

I don't think that @bargeeboy posts on CWDF any more, so I think he is unlikely to get the opportunity to give his side of events.

[Tonka]

11 hours ago, Lady M said:

I didn't say that I agreed with mooring on lock landings.  However, I do think that Hawkesbury is a special case and that the lock landing there is a relatively new invention.

Oh and i suppose water points are a relatively new invention to a working boat as they can just carry the Buckby can to the tap

[nicknorman]

15 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Oh and i suppose water points are a relatively new invention to a working boat as they can just carry the Buckby can to the tap

Well to be fair to Lady M the “lock landing” outside the Greyhound is very recent. There is plenty of scope for getting off a boat elsewhere in the vicinity. So if someone wanted to moor there it wouldn’t exercise me too much. I wouldn’t moor there myself, but mainly due to the risk of incompetent boaters T boning me as they fail to negotiate the corner!

[Rob-M]

Generally I've seen boats moored on the opposite side to the Greyhound leaving the space between the lock and the pub for lock usage.

 

Having passed Jaguar this afternoon I can assume who was steering it as he was in the cabin and he is the only person on a working boat who has shown a massive degree of arrogance on two separate occasions to me.

 

I've had about 20 working boats pass me today between Rugby and Fazeley, not one of them causing as issue.  All of them moved across slightly so we could share the channel and the pair approaching a bridge 'ole that was clearly mine held back for me.

[zenataomm]

There's always one!

And the flux of The Earth faithfully sends him/her your way when you least deserve it.

If they are steering a trophy boat/ex working/ historic etc.  then that's what you remember.  And the human brain makes the association. 

During the last, nearly 60 years of canal boating I've come across prize dorks on most sizes, makes and colours of boats.
If I'd only concentrated on those steering 30ft Springers in Red Oxide, then I'd have started a thread highlighting or condemning mainly those.
Having had everything from 16' cruisers to to a pair of Small Woolwich I confidently say that they all handle differently on different canals or even days of the week.
Warning ignore those with Trophy Boats and look out for those sporting those small square internet aerial thingies.  They never buy a round in a pub, and they cut corners on tight bends ... I've noticed.

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

There's always one!

And the flux of The Earth faithfully sends him/her your way when you least deserve it.

If they are steering a trophy boat/ex working/ historic etc.  then that's what you remember.  And the human brain makes the association. 

During the last, nearly 60 years of canal boating I've come across prize dorks on most sizes, makes and colours of boats.
If I'd only concentrated on those steering 30ft Springers in Red Oxide, then I'd have started a thread highlighting or condemning mainly those.

 

Never mind the trophy historic boat owners, I've experienced just as much arrogance from the fuggly fat-boat owners who believe the canal belongs exclusively to them, and you possibly missed off your list of all types of boats! 

 

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

27 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Warning ignore those with Trophy Boats and look out for those sporting those small square internet aerial thingies.  They never buy a round in a pub, and they cut corners on tight bends ... I've noticed.

I reckon it's flags. Boats with flags, especially triangular ones with meaningless initials. They never smile cheerfully as they go past. Except the ones with New Zealand flags, oddly enough. All the others are weird.

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

All the others are weird.

 

Point of Order...

 

All boaters are weird. Except me obviously. 

 

And you, almost! But not quite....

 

 

[agg221]

Much like some of the posters in the original thread, which I have just read, I find this type of thread rather saddening.

 

I have a longstanding interest in the history of canals, going back over 40yrs. I had Richard Dean's map of the BCN on the wall of my room at University, rather than the standard student posters, and still really enjoy poking around the backwaters of the BCN, have worked on restoration projects and I particularly like the quirky smaller boats - the tugs and the iceboats. I was therefore absolutely delighted when Oates came up for sale at a time and a price when we could take it on. Oates is a family boat. My wife, daughters and I all enjoy boating. We have a historic licence discount and as part of that I feel an obligation to take Oates to places where it helps form part of an attraction and allows other people to enjoy seeing it. We take it to Ellesmere Port, we went to the tug gathering and after the BCN Challenge we left it on the BCN for an extra couple of weeks so that we could take it to the Bradley festival, which had asked for historic boats which were available to attend (we were one of four). For reasons of travel logistics and mooring fees, going to Bradley actually cost more than the historic boat discount, but I don't mind that, it was good to take it to a worthwhile event. I don't deny enjoying being at these gatherings, but that isn't the only reason we go. We have set up an information board and usually spend quite a few hours standing by the boat, chatting to visitors about the boat and the engine, and if it ties in I am always happy to let people see it running, show the start-up procedure etc. At Ellesmere Port we have been up to the water point and it always gets a lot of extra interest from visitors to see a boat moving through the locks.

 

Rather like some other short boats including Sickle, many people appear to assume that because the boat is short it is easy to manoeuvre and must be shallow drafted, but it isn't on either count. Being very deep, we do tend to create movement as we pass boats, but I take it slowly, although I don't always guess how long it will take to slow down correctly as it is dependent on channel depth.  Mostly I get smiles, waves, nods and thumbs up from boats we are passing so people generally seem happy to see and hear us pass (they also talk to me but it is much louder on the stern than people realise and I can't usually hear what they are saying).

 

As anyone who read my recent comment regarding previous experience with some historic boat owners would be aware, I have also experienced unpleasant behaviour. It is definitely not universal by a very long way, but it does exist, just as it does with all types of boat owner.

 

We sometimes need to get on but that's not about being historic - for us, boating is restricted to outside school times so if we are on the boat for the weekend then we need to get somewhere specific to pick up a car and get the children home at a reasonable hour to get ready for school on Monday. The mindset which some people without time constraints have does not quite apply to us, but that has nothing to do with being historic. We are also pretty efficient with locks and swing bridges and we often catch someone else up on a flight and give them a hand. I have done the Wolverhampton 21 in 1hr 20mins in the past, with a crew of three, so when we came down a couple of weekends ago and the queue built up to four boats with us at the back, that was not ideal and it took nearly 3hrs, but we still got home at a fairly reasonable hour so no issues, but I will admit that I wasn't hanging about on the clear bits of the Shroppie.

 

I can empathise with @beerbeerbeerbeerbeer's observations on comments about continuous cruisers. Just because you happen to have a particular type of boat or use it in a particular way does not automatically mean you conform to someone else's stereotype.

Alec

[cheesegas]

Had one run in with a historic boat owner at Brentford a couple of years ago - it's fairly common for people to come off the Thames on an evening tide and moor up at the first available spot after the gauging lock, which happens to be the water point. Going about 5 minutes further on there's always ample mooring after the railway bridge, mind...

 

Was heading out on onto the Thames for an 8.30am lock out, getting some water on the way so I think it was about 6am I shuffled from above the railway bridge to the water point. Shiny 70ft historic boat on the water point with no fenders down and no way to moor behind or in front so I doubled up with them with my fenders down and tied my centre line onto their centre line eye whilst I sorted my bow and stern lines as it was windy. Angry angry man stuck his head out of the hatch asking what the bloody hell I was doing at this time in the morning, something about scratching his paintwork and how much his boat cost compared to mine, how I'd tied on to his centre eye etc etc.

When I politely mentioned he was blocking the water point he kicked off again, saying that 'you lot' had taken all the moorings and didn't like it when I pointed out I'd come from about 5 minutes away where there was comfortable space for 7-8 boats.

 

Huffily went back inside and spent the whole time glaring at me from his window whilst I toddled back and forth across his boat to empty my pee tank, take the bins out and connect the hose up. I have a big tank and it was almost empty so it took over an hour to fill as the Brentford tap isn't particularly fast...after an hour he stuck his head out again and complained I was taking too long and I should move on.

 

Awful person, no idea why I was so angry. Wouldn't have had a problem with him on the water point as his big tug front deck made it easy to get back and forth to the bank, it was just his attitude - a polite apology and perhaps an offer to take my centre line would have been fine!

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, cheesegas said:

Had one run in with a historic boat owner at Brentford a couple of years ago - it's fairly common for people to come off the Thames on an evening tide and moor up at the first available spot after the gauging lock, which happens to be the water point. Going about 5 minutes further on there's always ample mooring after the railway bridge, mind...

 

Was heading out on onto the Thames for an 8.30am lock out, getting some water on the way so I think it was about 6am I shuffled from above the railway bridge to the water point. Shiny 70ft historic boat on the water point with no fenders down and no way to moor behind or in front so I doubled up with them with my fenders down and tied my centre line onto their centre line eye whilst I sorted my bow and stern lines as it was windy. Angry angry man stuck his head out of the hatch asking what the bloody hell I was doing at this time in the morning, something about scratching his paintwork and how much his boat cost compared to mine, how I'd tied on to his centre eye etc etc.

When I politely mentioned he was blocking the water point he kicked off again, saying that 'you lot' had taken all the moorings and didn't like it when I pointed out I'd come from about 5 minutes away where there was comfortable space for 7-8 boats.

 

Huffily went back inside and spent the whole time glaring at me from his window whilst I toddled back and forth across his boat to empty my pee tank, take the bins out and connect the hose up. I have a big tank and it was almost empty so it took over an hour to fill as the Brentford tap isn't particularly fast...after an hour he stuck his head out again and complained I was taking too long and I should move on.

 

Awful person, no idea why I was so angry. Wouldn't have had a problem with him on the water point as his big tug front deck made it easy to get back and forth to the bank, it was just his attitude - a polite apology and perhaps an offer to take my centre line would have been fine!

 

The only surprising thing about that story is that you omitted to accidentally spill the contents of your cassette on his boat. Or maybe you did but don't like to admit it?😁

Obviously some historic boaters are nice people and some are not. It is hard to know if the balance is worse for HBs than for boats in general, but I think the sheer bulk and slightly intimidating appearance of eg a Large Woolwich means that any transgressions are more memorable. There is perhaps a tendency for HB owners to think it is clever to act like it is 100 years ago in terms of how they treat the infrastructure, but often this goes wrong so it is a good source of amusement!

[IanD]

12 hours ago, agg221 said:

Much like some of the posters in the original thread, which I have just read, I find this type of thread rather saddening.

 

[snip]

 

I can empathise with @beerbeerbeerbeerbeer's observations on comments about continuous cruisers. Just because you happen to have a particular type of boat or use it in a particular way does not automatically mean you conform to someone else's stereotype.

Alec

 

The most unpleasant boating encounters I've had over the years have mostly been with entitled shiny boaters behaving like selfish ar*eholes.

 

I now have a shiny boat, so does that mean I get to do the same?

 

Of course it doesn't -- as pointed out above there are selfish tw*ts in all walks of life, shiny/scruffy/historic boaters, CCers/CMers/HMers, cyclists, motorists, you name it. The reason to be annoyed with them and complain about them is not because of what particular label they have, but because they're selfish tw*ts -- and most people are not, regardless of what label they have.

Edited June 28, 2024 by IanD

[roland elsdon]

If it had winders shiny paint  and a tug deck Na thats probably a relica.

 

A good run alongside might have knocked the woshas off the josha.

[Stroudwater1]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

 

The only surprising thing about that story is that you omitted to accidentally spill the contents of your cassette on his boat. Or maybe you did but don't like to admit it?😁

The other surprise is you moored to his centre line eye? Whereabouts is this on a historic boat other than the mast or an eye near the centre? 
 

I’ve had to do this a couple of times to non historics at water/service points. There’s quite a few posts about this. 

[5239]

15 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Generally I've seen boats moored on the opposite side to the Greyhound leaving the space between the lock and the pub for lock usage.

 

Having passed Jaguar this afternoon I can assume who was steering it as he was in the cabin and he is the only person on a working boat who has shown a massive degree of arrogance on two separate occasions to me.

 

I've had about 20 working boats pass me today between Rugby and Fazeley, not one of them causing as issue.  All of them moved across slightly so we could share the channel and the pair approaching a bridge 'ole that was clearly mine held back for me.

I’ve never had the nerve to moor outside the Greyhound because I didn’t think you  should and (as someone else said) for fear of being tw&tted by another boat. But maybe next time. As you know I like a mooring outside the pub. 
 

Not long had a text about Jaguar - last seen knocking chunks off the entrance to Harecastle Tunnel. Now is the owner of Jaguar the bloke from Alvecote ? 
 

I love seeing the old boats about, never had any trouble. Occasionally the odd reluctance to engage in a smile, nod or wave. But then I wonder if I’ve said summat on here to upset them 

[cheesegas]

3 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

The other surprise is you moored to his centre line eye? Whereabouts is this on a historic boat other than the mast or an eye near the centre? 
 

I’ve had to do this a couple of times to non historics at water/service points. There’s quite a few posts about this. 

Yep, the new flats at Brentford make a mild breeze into a wind tunnel so it can be difficult to moor as it pushes you across the basin. My usual technique for a windy doubling up is to tie my centre line loosely onto the other boat's centre eye, then go ashore with my bow and stern lines in turn, tie them off and then untie the centre line. However, as this boat was 70ft and I'm only 45ft, it made tying my bow line to the shore very difficult; the boats were facing opposite directions, with my stern aligned with his bow, so there was a good 25ft of boat in front of me! Ended up leaving the centre line tied to him, and my stern line tied to shore.

 

I seem to remember his boat had a trad cabin at the back, and a fake canvas load cover forwards of that which I think was the living area as it had large windows and a chimney, and then a long tug deck at the bow. On top of the fake canvas cover was a chunky eye towards the front of the boat which already had a rope tied to it, so I tied to that. My centre lines are further to the stern than the bow, so it matched up neatly.

 

It's otherwise impossible to double up in the wind; if I had taken my centre line ashore over him, it would have had to go over his chimney, shiny brass tunnel light and there was something else fragile sticking up which I wanted to avoid, I can't remember now!

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’ve never had the nerve to moor outside the Greyhound because I didn’t think you  should and (as someone else said) for fear of being tw&tted by another boat. But maybe next time. As you know I like a mooring outside the pub. 
 

 

 

Outside the Greyhound in 1968:-

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2024 by David Schweizer

[Mike Tee]

I think that because the hysterical boats are so obviously different, and they are normally owned by experienced boaters, when they do something selfish or stupid it really stands out, so %'wise they probably transgress far less than us ordinary blokes (and ladies),  but they impact (in both ways) higher than we do on those watching.

[Ken X]

42 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

I think that because the hysterical boats are so obviously different, and they are normally owned by experienced boaters, when they do something selfish or stupid it really stands out, so %'wise they probably transgress far less than us ordinary blokes (and ladies),  but they impact (in both ways) higher than we do on those watching.

This is probably the case. Over the years we have been hiring we have met several historic boats and, so far, they have been chatty and more than happy to show us their boats. Two examples come to mind. A few years ago we were just closing the top gates at Braunston when a bow hove into view behind us, presumably followed by a boat. We reopened the gates and George slid in alongside. We shared the Braunston and Buckby flights with the owners and had a good look at the Bolinder which was causing the whole boat to oscillate up and down in the locks. They were very pleasant to work with.

 

Last year we travelled from Middlewich to Lymm with a boat who's name escapes me but we were behind her waiting at the first timed tunnel. The solo lady helm insisted we pass her and transit the tunnels in front of her as she said she would be slow and smokey making our journey unpleasant.

 

 

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Outside the Greyhound in 1968:-

 

 

 

Yes but in 1968, people actually knew how to steer boats!

 

[David Schweizer]

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes but in 1968, people actually knew how to steer boats!

 

 

 Maybe.  I was one of them, our small Northwich was just round the corner in the lock!

[matty40s]

5 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

Not long had a text about Jaguar - last seen knocking chunks off the entrance to Harecastle Tunnel. Now is the owner of Jaguar the bloke from Alvecote ? 
 

If it was him, he probably got off as it entered and walked over the top, hoping it would come out the other side.....

[Rob-M]

A different steerer today

[ditchcrawler]

On 26/06/2024 at 20:35, cuthound said:

Some time ago I read a thread about entitled Historic boat owners, here.

 

 

At the time I took it with a pinch of salt but experienced it first hand today.

 

The historic boat owner completely misread the situation ahead of him and then tried to bully his way past me. No chance!

 

A dredger, spot dredging around the entrance of Kings Bromley Marina had become stuck (perhaps he should have dredged his exit route first?) and was stuck across the canal. A boat coming the other way had already stopped and was waiting for him to get the dredger unstick.

 

I stopped and after a short while the dredger freed himself and began to move on. The oncoming boat indicated to me that he wanted to enter the marina, so I let him go as I was likely to be slowed down by the dredger until.we got to Fradley Junction.

 

Instead of entering the marina the boat winded and set off after the dredger towards Fradley Junction, albeit at a fairly low speed 2.5mph according to my Ullysse Speedometers app.

 

Soon I became aware of an historic boat bearing down in me from behind. He positioned himself about 2 metres off my stern, sounded his horn and gesticulated that he wanted to pass.

 

I assumed he could see I was following a slower boat so shrugged at him 

 

He then tried to forcibly overtake me, so I cut him off, not wanting to be further down the queue at Wood End lock.

 

Then the boat in front pulled over to moor for lunch so I sped up and left the historic boat behind, then stopped at the lock, which was occupied by the dredger. 

 

He came partially along side whilst we waited for a boat to come up, but didn't look at it speak to me 

 

I shouted to my wife to close the top gate in front of him if he attempted to enter before me and he reversed his boat back behind me.

 

We went through the locks without him catching me again and he past me soon after I had moored.

 

I asked why he was in such a hurry that he had to try and pass boats approaching and queueing at locks but he ignored me.

 

Spoilt my days cruising.

 

There has been a thread on FB about them mooring on water points and by the Greyhound at Hawkesbury overnight on their way to Braunston. Its things like this that cause the ill feeling between private boaters and owners of historic craft