3 minutes ago, Bristolfashion said:

So Farage (aka Mr Toad) objects to hearing foreign languages spoken on the streets of Britain - strange when he has previously boasted of his daughters' fluent German.

Mr Toad could equally be called Mr Two Faced or Mr Double Standards.

7 hours ago, robtheplod said:

But this is a thread about Nigel Farage's ability to capture a room?

If, by which, you mean that he's worked out that lying (impossible, financially crazy policies), appealing to the base instincts of a relatively small section of society (selfishness, casual sexism & xenophobia) and promising things that are either impossible to deliver or that he'll never have to deliver whilst ignoring his own abject failure (not getting elected)  & culpability (Brexit project failure) will appeal to an audience of decrepit old fossils, dimwits, xenophobes (etc) then, yep, he can capture a room.

 

Put him up against anyone informed with half a brain and he's completely lost - as we see whenever he is interviewed by a proper journalist.

11 minutes ago, Bristolfashion said:

If, by which, you mean that he's worked out that lying (impossible, financially crazy policies), appealing to the base instincts of a relatively small section of society (selfishness, casual sexism & xenophobia) and promising things that are either impossible to deliver or that he'll never have to deliver whilst ignoring his own abject failure (not getting elected)  & culpability (Brexit project failure) will appeal to an audience of decrepit old fossils, dimwits, xenophobes (etc) then, yep, he can capture a room.

 

Put him up against anyone informed with half a brain and he's completely lost - as we see whenever he is interviewed by a proper journalist.

Has Mishal Husain interviewed him yet?

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brian-cox-puts-farage-back-in-his-box-and-slams-brexit-silence-377089/

About time someone called a fascist a fascist.

Oh dear, I see that one of Mr Toad's lot has called the King weak and questioned Charles' loyalty. Now THAT will really capture a room full of grey hair & blue rinses should Farage defend that position. Angela Carter-Begbie by the way.

 

Meanwhile, Jack Aaron thinks Hitler was "brilliant" - another test for Farage's powers of oratory.

 

Sarah & Peter Morris are both COVID conspiracy nuts - tell us how you support that one Nigel.

 

There were 55 of these nutjobs identified 

 

Yep, you could really capture a room explaining that lot.

Farage was renowned at Dulwich public school,  for relishing his notoriety as a fascist poseur. Parading around doing Nazi salutes in his cadet uniform, singing about gassing the jews. It's well documented. Contemporaries from that era describe him as an attention seeking twit. 

As an adult, he has tapped into the ever-present stream of English fascism, that Mosely used, and the daily mail celebrated, as did members of the royal family,  right up to the moment war was declared. It's always worth repeating that England has a strong tradition of white supremacists, and one of the gifts of Empire has been an overweening sense of entitlement and superiority to 'the wogs', who 'start at calais'. 

For some, this is a matter of personal national identity. At the lower end, it's basically all they have to hold onto. 

The same thread has continued, via the NF, BNP, EDL, and latterly UKIP, infesting the tories, and now in reform. They are always the same people, with the same empty slogans and white supremacist 'ideology'. They successfully stole the national flag back in the late 1970's and still do.  

English fascism doesn't wear jackboots nowadays - Hitler put the dampeners on that sort of fashion statement. 

Instead its leaders affect ostentatious 'ultra-English' country squire cosplay. Outfitted by Barbour and Cordings. The followers remain recognisably related to skinheads in large part, with a second stream of ageing provincial middle class Express reader indignation. A lot of angry divorced old men too. 

Farage's particular skill, honed over many years, is dog whistling. It's very very effective, and passes as oratory for the targets. They are not discerning.

He has learned that this audience lap it up. They want simple answers, 'common sense', authority, etc. 

That's what 'holds the room'. Feeding fascist messages to a willing audience, but always allowing retreat if challenged. 

Farage himself sucks the money teat, as his hero Trump.

He doesn't drink beer, he drinks fine wines, from his Berry Brothers curated investment cellar. 

He's a fraud, and he is the current face of English fascism. 

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

Has Mishal Husain interviewed him yet?

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brian-cox-puts-farage-back-in-his-box-and-slams-brexit-silence-377089/

About time someone called a fascist a fascist.

So you give credence to the opinion of someone who wants to break up the United Kingdom, Cox, to someone who wants to strengthen it, Farage. 

Strengthen it? You really only read what you want, don't you.

41 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

Contemporaries from that era describe him as an attention seeking twit. 

 

Only from that era? "Attention-seeking twit" still admirably sums him up at the age of 60. 

 

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Only from that era? "Attention-seeking twit" still admirably sums him up at the age of 60. 

 

 

I assume autocorrect bowdlerised that for you... 😉 

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I assume autocorrect bowdlerised that for you... 😉 

 

Well, for Tigerr: I was quoting only him. 

 

 

 

I could have used a much more colourful expletive. In fact, dozens of them. 

 

 

What fascinated me with the British voting public is they express the opinion that 'All politicians are the same, all liars' and yet when you read Farage's 'Manifesto' it is nothing but a total pack of, impossible to implement, lies and yet many of those same people then swallow it as 'telling it like it is'.

 

What they seem to be saying to me is that they want to be lied to, but only the 'right' sort of lies

Farage had to admit on Good Morning Britain that his "contract" was unfunded. Among Reform’s proposals is a pledge to increase the income tax personal allowance to £20,000. 

 

Presenter Ed Balls challenged Farage over his party’s tax plans and asked: “Who would gain most from your personal tax proposal? Somebody on the minimum wage, somebody on average earnings, or somebody on £95,000 a year?”

 

Farage replied: “People on benefits would gain the most because actually their whole lives would be transformed by making work pay.”

 

Balls interrupted and said: “People on benefits wouldn’t benefit at all from the personal tax allowance because they wouldn’t be paying any tax.”

He added: “Facts are important here. The person who would benefit most from your personal tax proposal is someone who earns £95,000. They would gain far more than somebody on average earnings, who would gain much more than somebody on the minimum wage. Did you not know that?”

 

Farage however insisted that his proposals were correct “on percentage terms”.

 

However, this was shot down by Mr Balls, who said: “That’s not right. “Somebody on the minimum wage would gain less, absolutely and proportionally, than somebody on average earnings or on £95,000. Your tax proposals help people who are richer rather than poorer.”

 

A rather frustrated Farage replied: “This is so typical.”

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Only from that era? "Attention-seeking twit" still admirably sums him up at the age of 60. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm increasingly of the opinion that many/most people don't change that much over time, just become more so whatever it is they fundamentally are. The person they were at school/uni is basically the person they are at 40, 50, 60, 70. I include myself in that observation. You can see it in descriptions of other politicians. like Boris Johnson at Eton, Oxford and his early journalism career.

A challenge...

 

OK, as the majority view on here is anti-Reform, you have an opportunity to convert me - you be the candidate knocking on my door. I'm a sceptic about parties actually doing what they say in manifestos and the hidden agendas that don't surface until voted in. News headlines over the last few days have knocked all parties for inaccuracies and reluctance to be give clear objectives.

 

To give you an advantage over real candidates so you know your audience, I'm a business owner, a home owner and nearing retirement, health is getting more of a concern as age creeps in and I have children who are in their twenties, and of course the main thing is I intend to spend more time doing leisure boaty things so you can see where my priorities (weak points!) are.

 

So, I have open ears and will listen to anyone who gives sound advice to this - I'm not interested in what other parties are doing, promote the one you feel passionate about.

 

can you do it? 

1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

A challenge...

 

OK, as the majority view on here is anti-Reform, you have an opportunity to convert me - you be the candidate knocking on my door. I'm a sceptic about parties actually doing what they say in manifestos and the hidden agendas that don't surface until voted in. News headlines over the last few days have knocked all parties for inaccuracies and reluctance to be give clear objectives.

 

To give you an advantage over real candidates so you know your audience, I'm a business owner, a home owner and nearing retirement, health is getting more of a concern as age creeps in and I have children who are in their twenties, and of course the main thing is I intend to spend more time doing leisure boaty things so you can see where my priorities (weak points!) are.

 

So, I have open ears and will listen to anyone who gives sound advice to this - I'm not interested in what other parties are doing, promote the one you feel passionate about.

 

can you do it? 

 

A serious question but have you actually read the reform manifesto, I have, or at least skimmed it and it's pure fantasy, never mind the magical money tree this is a magical grand canyon, promise after promise of spending and so on with vague suggestions of saving though efficiency, plus to be fair other optimistic suggestions,  if any other party proposed this they would be torn to pieces.

 

He is a political grifter of the highest order, I didn't find his speech in the video particularly gripping either 

 

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

 

A serious question but have you actually read the reform manifesto, I have, or at least skimmed it and it's pure fantasy, never mind the magical money tree this is a magical grand canyon, promise after promise of spending and so on with vague suggestions of saving though efficiency, plus to be fair other optimistic suggestions,  if any other party proposed this they would be torn to pieces.

 

He is a political grifter of the highest order, I didn't find his speech in the video particularly gripping either 

 

I have and find the ideas quite original - if they work who knows, but in the absence of believing the others have done/can do better, this is the issue the doorstep candidates face...

OK, I'll bite. Will put on a Green rosette and turn up on your doorstep.

 

2 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

health is getting more of a concern as age creeps

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-caught-on-video-suggesting-the-nhs-should-be-run-privately-9857389.html

Green party NHS policy

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/2024/06/06/greens-offer-game-changing-investment-to-nurse-the-nhs-back-to-health/

 

4 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

business owner, a home owner

Important for the first, might be for the second, but depending on if your mortgage is paid off. Will be, if your kids might want to buy houses at some point. Lots of unfunded tax cuts in their manifesto. You know, the same sort Liz Truss and Kwazi Kwarteng had in their budget that caused some problems for business and mortgage payers two years ago.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/17/reform_uk_manifesto_2024/

Claims that Green party also have unfunded budget aspects, but nowhere near as bad as Reform.

 

6 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I have children who are in their twenties

 

12 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

more time doing leisure boaty things

Do you believe climate change is a thing? Are you worried about the sort of world where millions, perhaps billions of people are on the move to get away from parts of the planet that are no longer survivable? The sort of world that your children and any grandchildren might live? You've already seen how instabilities in the climate can cause droughts that empty canal reservoirs and storms that breach banks. Reform want to scrap net zero and licence even more oil and gas drilling. Fossil fuel companies are significant funders of Reform.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/17/reform_uk_manifesto_2024/

Green party. It's in the name!

https://greenparty.org.uk/about/our-manifesto/creating-a-fairer-greener-economy/

https://greenparty.org.uk/about/our-manifesto/powering-up-fairer-greener-energy/

 

36 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I have and find the ideas quite original - if they work who knows, but in the absence of believing the others have done/can do better, this is the issue the doorstep candidates face...

 

If they work?

 

They won't work, for all the reasons Trussonomics didn't, but on steroids.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

OK, I'll bite. Will put on a Green rosette and turn up on your doorstep.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-caught-on-video-suggesting-the-nhs-should-be-run-privately-9857389.html

Green party NHS policy

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/2024/06/06/greens-offer-game-changing-investment-to-nurse-the-nhs-back-to-health/

 

Important for the first, might be for the second, but depending on if your mortgage is paid off. Will be, if your kids might want to buy houses at some point. Lots of unfunded tax cuts in their manifesto. You know, the same sort Liz Truss and Kwazi Kwarteng had in their budget that caused some problems for business and mortgage payers two years ago.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/17/reform_uk_manifesto_2024/

Claims that Green party also have unfunded budget aspects, but nowhere near as bad as Reform.

 

 

Do you believe climate change is a thing? Are you worried about the sort of world where millions, perhaps billions of people are on the move to get away from parts of the planet that are no longer survivable? The sort of world that your children and any grandchildren might live? You've already seen how instabilities in the climate can cause droughts that empty canal reservoirs and storms that breach banks. Reform want to scrap net zero and licence even more oil and gas drilling. Fossil fuel companies are significant funders of Reform.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/17/reform_uk_manifesto_2024/

Green party. It's in the name!

https://greenparty.org.uk/about/our-manifesto/creating-a-fairer-greener-economy/

https://greenparty.org.uk/about/our-manifesto/powering-up-fairer-greener-energy/

 

Fab thanks for the Greens!

 

Re NHS, I dont have any problem with the NHS using private facilities and going down the insurance based option, but with free at point of need (like France). The NHS is way overdue radical reform and having layers of management cut - its a shame the Greens don't mention efficiencies, just adding more money which every party always says? The Reform 'caught on video' is a bit sensational since this is a clear and documented policy they are open about.

 

Good point on the tax cuts, this is the hardest to fathom as its difficult to see what will actually occur?

 

I do believe in climate change, however i don't believe taxing poorer people will solve it as is the case on our energy bills/ULEZ etc.  Once the biggest polluters such as unnecessary air travel are banned then I will know climate change is being taken seriously by governments, and i need to also.

 

Thanks for this Jen, but you fell into the trap of focusing on rubbishing other parties...    For people to change minds then surely they need to push the benefits of their polices/party rather than talk about what others are not doing, which if their policies are good will sway people?

19 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

If they work?

 

They won't work, for all the reasons Trussonomics didn't, but on steroids.

 

 

Who do you support and specifically why? 

12 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I do believe in climate change, however i don't believe taxing poorer people will solve it as is the case on our energy bills/ULEZ etc.  Once the biggest polluters such as unnecessary air travel are banned then I will know climate change is being taken seriously by governments, and i need to also.

Here you go. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6ppd6p12k4o

So a wealth tax on assets over £10M of 1% per annum and 2% on assets over £1B. Money to go on insulating homes of poorer people, saving them on energy bills. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63087563

Also, a frequent flier levy, so the more Dubai breaks you take, the more you pay. A ban on domestic flights that can be done in under three hours by train. No airport expansions. https://greenparty.org.uk/about/our-manifesto/fairer-greener-transport/

9 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Here you go. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6ppd6p12k4o

So a wealth tax on assets over £10M of 1% per annum and 2% on assets over £1B. Money to go on insulating homes of poorer people, saving them on energy bills. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63087563

Also, a frequent flier levy, so the more Dubai breaks you take, the more you pay. A ban on domestic flights that can be done in under three hours by train. No airport expansions. https://greenparty.org.uk/about/our-manifesto/fairer-greener-transport/

All very good points - I like them! 

 

.... but what i can't get is the 'frequent flyer levy', so aimed at rich people who take lots of holidays..... this does not help the environment, but raises tax revenue....  surely to stop pollution you need to stop the cause? 

 

on the whole I've been pleasantly surprised, thanks!!

On 18/06/2024 at 16:12, Bristolfashion said:

Oh dear, I see that one of Mr Toad's lot has called the King weak and questioned Charles' loyalty. Now THAT will really capture a room full of grey hair & blue rinses should Farage defend that position. Angela Carter-Begbie by the way.

 

Meanwhile, Jack Aaron thinks Hitler was "brilliant" - another test for Farage's powers of oratory.

 

Sarah & Peter Morris are both COVID conspiracy nuts - tell us how you support that one Nigel.

 

There were 55 of these nutjobs identified 

 

Yep, you could really capture a room explaining that lot.

Is that the Sarah Morris here in Isle of Wight East?

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

A challenge...

 

OK, as the majority view on here is anti-Reform, you have an opportunity to convert me - you be the candidate knocking on my door. I'm a sceptic about parties actually doing what they say in manifestos and the hidden agendas that don't surface until voted in. News headlines over the last few days have knocked all parties for inaccuracies and reluctance to be give clear objectives.

 

To give you an advantage over real candidates so you know your audience, I'm a business owner, a home owner and nearing retirement, health is getting more of a concern as age creeps in and I have children who are in their twenties, and of course the main thing is I intend to spend more time doing leisure boaty things so you can see where my priorities (weak points!) are.

 

So, I have open ears and will listen to anyone who gives sound advice to this - I'm not interested in what other parties are doing, promote the one you feel passionate about.

 

can you do it? 

I could try but I feel my time is better spent stuffing VOTE LABOUR leaflets through letter boxes.

 

(And the predictions are for not one but two Labour seats here on the IoW. Perhaps there is a God after all)

 

And........

If the sitting Tory, Bob 'Arfur Sausage' Seeley gets the bums rush it will be anothe 3am, Enfield, Portaloo moment.

10 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

but what i can't get is the 'frequent flyer levy', so aimed at rich people who take lots of holidays..... this does not help the environment, but raises tax revenue....  surely to stop pollution you need to stop the cause? 

Behaviour modification by tax is a long established technique. It is why vehicle excise duty is currently zero for electric cars and £2,745 per year for the biggest thirstiest Chelsea tractors. Also, why the price of fags is mostly tax. It works over the long term. If you want to do the thing we are trying to avoid, then you can, but you need to cough up. Literally for fags! It is less likely to get resistance than an outright ban, though there is still some, like with ULEZ, if it is thought to be too heavy and too fast. You've got to take it at a pace people will accept, without revolt. Also need to clamp down on get outs, like smuggled fags.

Flying is a rich person thing. Going from poor families with zero, through middle income, with one or two flights  a year, through to super rich like Rish! with his helicopters for getting about the country without having to interact with the peasants and people with their own jets to avoid the plebian horrors of the airport first class lounge. Some science here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214367X21000466

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

>> ... but what i can't get is the 'frequent flyer levy', so aimed at rich people who take lots of holidays..... this does not help the environment, but raises tax revenue....  surely to stop pollution you need to stop the cause? 

 

 

If fewer people want to fly. there will be fewer flights, and less carbon emitted to the atmosphere.

 

Not none.