CRT advice to moor using centre line.

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Mine don't.  Am I doing it wrong?

 

The point is, they don't need to be at 45 degrees (or whatever yours are at, although they can be) when you also employ a pair of spring lines.

 

90 degrees suffices, as does almost any other angle between about 45 and 135 degrees.

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Mine don't.  Am I doing it wrong?

 

No, but you are trying to use two lines to do the job of four. As I said, it works to a degree, but not as well as using four lines. Not that it matters much as long as it works for you.

Edited May 27, 2025 by Tony Brooks

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Mine don't.  Am I doing it wrong?

Lots are

[haggis]

37 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Lots are

I often wonder if we are doing it wrong when I see and read all those descriptions of spring lines but our method works! We have two mooring points at both ends of the boat with the distance between them being about 2 feet at the bows and 1 foot at the stern. We use 1 pin/ring,/bollard at each end so that we have V shaped ropes at both ends, tied off on the boat .

The boat doesn't move no matter how fast other boats go past. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, haggis said:

I often wonder if we are doing it wrong when I see and read all those descriptions of spring lines but our method works! We have two mooring points at both ends of the boat with the distance between them being about 2 feet at the bows and 1 foot at the stern. We use 1 pin/ring,/bollard at each end so that we have V shaped ropes at both ends, tied off on the boat .

The boat doesn't move no matter how fast other boats go past. 

 

 

 

There is really no 100% right or wrong and varaiations to suit the boat / mooring site will be needed.

 

EG :

 

2 short breast and 2 short spring lines is an easy one on a NB

 

 

Or the one I generally use on my home mooring, but requires a central cleat . This works well for me on a mooring where the height varies up/down by up to 12 feet.

The angle of the springs allows the boat to go up and down, and the breats lines keep the boat against the wall.

 

 

 

 

Or, if you are going to have some fast traffic passing :

 

 

Edited May 27, 2025 by Alan de Enfield

[haggis]

22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

There is really no 100% right or wrong and varaiations to suit the boat / mooring site will be needed.

 

EG :

 

2 short breast and 2 short spring lines is an easy one on a NB

 

 

This the nearest to what we use but we don't  have any ropes at 90%.  The angle of each rope is about the same. 

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, haggis said:

This the nearest to what we use but we don't  have any ropes at 90%.  The angle of each rope is about the same. 

 

Nothing wrong with that, you won't have a great latitute for changing water levels but not really relevant on the canals (one hopes)

[cuthound]

19 hours ago, 5239 said:

here’s a spring line,

the boat don’t match the mooring bollards as I’d like and I don’t want to create a trip hazard at front 

 

simply the black rope is the springer. (And a trip hazard in my case 😃)
 

normally as you know you tie with a rope going out from the front and back. 
but in this case the back rope is longer than I’d like so the springer helps keep the back in as the trip boats pass. 
 

 

 

I was just wondering which forum member(s) your sign was referring too?

 

[IanD]

This is how I do spring lines, but using two attachment points on the boat instead of on the shore -- then you can use two crossed mooring spikes each at bow and stern to resist them being pulled out.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

I was just wondering which forum member(s) your sign was referring too?

 

any cyclist that can’t be arsed to dismount 😃

[Ianws]

12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Nothing wrong with that, you won't have a great latitute for changing water levels but not really relevant on the canals (one hopes)

The level in the canal can  change a lot. The tight breast line could be a problem? 

 

I've got a leisure boat on tje Leeds and Liverpool and levels do fluctuate. I'm not there to adjust the lines all the time and I no longer have people I could rely on to keep an eye on it. My solution at the moment is to leave my bow and stern lines with some slack to cope with level changes. Not ideal, but I'm not sure what else to do. The spring makes sense when I'm aboard but not when I'm absent for a couple of weeks, unless I'm missing something. 

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, Ianws said:

The level in the canal can  change a lot. The tight breast line could be a problem? 

 

I've got a leisure boat on tje Leeds and Liverpool and levels do fluctuate. I'm not there to adjust the lines all the time and I no longer have people I could rely on to keep an eye on it. My solution at the moment is to leave my bow and stern lines with some slack to cope with level changes. Not ideal, but I'm not sure what else to do. The spring makes sense when I'm aboard but not when I'm absent for a couple of weeks, unless I'm missing something. 

 

I'd not think your water levels alter by much more than +/- 12" (total of 2 feet) do they ?

 

My boat can be subject to as much as 10-12 feet height change in 6 hours.

 

The breast lines (bow and stern) are reasonably tight at high water, and as the boat drops the rope slackens & then tightens until low water.

The breast line dont need to be particularly loose or tight as there is only a vertical movement, so the line can be much shorter than if the line was tiied off at 45 degrees (or more) to the boat (its simple trignometry - the hypotenuse - a long bow line - needs to have more length to allow for the height drop)

The breast lines are simply to keep the boat into the bank and not to control the forward and backwads movement.

 

The spring lines are the critical ones and they are the ones you should ensure you have on if you are away from the boat for a week or two.

These are the lines that control the forward and back movement and allow for the drop in water level.

 

Most boats in our marina have fairly loose breasts and springs and it is interesting to watch them - they automatically sit about 3 feet out from the wall and barely move when boats go past them.

 

Another way to make the springs work better is to hang 56lb weights off them (about half way between boat-bollard and shore bollard/ring)

this keeps the springs 'tight' at all water heights and acts as a shock absorber. As the boat is lifted the buoyancy of the boat lifts the line which in turn lifts the 56lb weight.

 

Lumpy water / Tidal / Coastal mooring has a lot of transferable skills to the Canals

[Ianws]

I wouldn't like to rely on that amount  of drop or rise on the Leeds And Liverpool, whilst away from the boat. I try to keep mooring lines as long and angled as possible, but still leave some slack for level rises. Surely (or Shirley) tight breast lines to keep the boat in close would also restrict the ability to cope with level variations. Happy to be educated. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Ianws said:

I wouldn't like to rely on that amount  of drop or rise on the Leeds And Liverpool, whilst away from the boat. I try to keep mooring lines as long and angled as possible, but still leave some slack for level rises. Surely (or Shirley) tight breast lines to keep the boat in close would also restrict the ability to cope with level variations. Happy to be educated. 

 

 

No - just a quick sketch. Hopefully you get the meaning.

 

 

If your breast rope is (say) 6 feet long, then the water level can drop , probably about 4 or 5 feet (right angle triangle - hypotenuse again) without  tightening. It will initially get 'looser' as the water level drops.

[blackrose]

On 13/05/2024 at 12:32, Liam said:

Not all centre lines are fixed to the cabin top...

 

Not all centre lines need to be tight either. It's fine to moor with a centre line in certain situations as long as it's left loose.

 

What's the point of that? Well should one's bow or stern line come loose for some reason, like a passing boat rips out a mooring stake for example, the centre line will stop the boat going broadside across the canal.

 

It's an insurance policy.

Edited May 28, 2025 by blackrose

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Not all centre lines need to be tight either. It's fine to moor with a centre line in certain situations as long as it's left loose.

 

What's the point of that? Well should one's bow or stern line come loose for some reason, like a passing boat rips out a mooring stake for example, the centre line will stop the boat going broadside across the canal.

 

It's an insurance policy.

As one who rarely uses mooring pins the only observation I'd make on that is if some muppet is passing so fast that it pulls out your bow or stern mooring pin, whose to say it wont pull out the centre line pin as well? Having said that, today I used the centre line for a 'certain situation' in which the gap into which I fitted my 60' boat was only about 65' long and the mooring rings were directly in line with both bow and stern mooring bollards/T-bar. This meant that passing boats were likely to cause my boat to bump either the boat in front or the boat behind. 

 

The idea was to moor bow and stern and then to use the centre line as a 'spring' pulling the boat towards the bow line, putting the stern line in tension. What this now means is that when some muppet comes past at speed, the boat cannot swing forward as the stern line is holding it, and it cannot swing backwards as the centre line (led quite a way forward) is stopping it. I usually use a 'nappy pin' with a short section of rope and a spliced loop on the end to achieve much the same, but today I found the rope on the 'nappy pin' was too short. Decided it was time to fit a longer piece of rope to it and now, so adapted, I have a 'spring' set and people can come past at whatever speed they wish, the boat isn't going to go either backwards or forwards into the boats moored either side of me (the centre line now redundant, so put back on the roof). I wasn't particularly happy using the centre line in this way as if some muppet comes past at speed, it can cause the boat to tip.

 

The other use I have with this 'nappy pin' set up, is when coming in to moor on armco the first thing I do is drop the loop over the stern mooring bollard and drop the 'nappy pin' behind the armco. The stern is then instantly moored with no messing with knots or anything, I can then concentrate on sorting the bow out. This method has been particularly useful in windy conditions to quickly secure the stern.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

As one who rarely uses mooring pins the only observation I'd make on that is if some muppet is passing so fast that it pulls out your bow or stern mooring pin, whose to say it wont pull out the centre line pin as well? Having said that, today I used the centre line for a 'certain situation' in which the gap into which I fitted my 60' boat was only about 65' long and the mooring rings were directly in line with both bow and stern mooring bollards/T-bar. This meant that passing boats were likely to cause my boat to bump either the boat in front or the boat behind. 

 

The idea was to moor bow and stern and then to use the centre line as a 'spring' pulling the boat towards the bow line, putting the stern line in tension. What this now means is that when some muppet comes past at speed, the boat cannot swing forward as the stern line is holding it, and it cannot swing backwards as the centre line (led quite a way forward) is stopping it. I usually use a 'nappy pin' with a short section of rope and a spliced loop on the end to achieve much the same, but today I found the rope on the 'nappy pin' was too short. Decided it was time to fit a longer piece of rope to it and now, so adapted, I have a 'spring' set and people can come past at whatever speed they wish, the boat isn't going to go either backwards or forwards into the boats moored either side of me (the centre line now redundant, so put back on the roof). I wasn't particularly happy using the centre line in this way as if some muppet comes past at speed, it can cause the boat to tip.

 

The other use I have with this 'nappy pin' set up, is when coming in to moor on armco the first thing I do is drop the loop over the stern mooring bollard and drop the 'nappy pin' behind the armco. The stern is then instantly moored with no messing with knots or anything, I can then concentrate on sorting the bow out. This method has been particularly useful in windy conditions to quickly secure the stern.

You will probably roll more when they come by 

[DandV]

Roof mounted centre lines come into their own in boat handling when "coming alongside" which of course is part of mooring alongside, as distinct to mooring at anchor, or mooring to bouy, or to a pole, or two.

But making a "boat fast" that is secured, against drifting away, roof mounted centre lines are inferior to using additional bow and stern lines, or if your boat has provision for it, springs from a gunnel level fastening somewhere near halfway down the length of the boat.

We used a soft shackle on a gunnel fender fastening, sometimes taking the roof centreline through it, to provide a spring.

 

[TheShipsCat]

I find that most boats I've hired are supplied with three pins, one without a ring, just a flat washer at the top, often a rather skimpy washer at that.  What is the purpose of this ringless mooring pin?  I would not trust the washer to hold a line, unless there's a special knot that I don't know about.

 

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, TheShipsCat said:

I find that most boats I've hired are supplied with three pins, one without a ring, just a flat washer at the top, often a rather skimpy washer at that.  What is the purpose of this ringless mooring pin?  I would not trust the washer to hold a line, unless there's a special knot that I don't know about.

 

This under the washer head will hold https://youtu.be/IxVwst78MyI?t=95  Clove Hitch

Edited October 23, 2025 by ditchcrawler

[Tony Brooks]

I think a round turn and two half hitches would hold as well, unless the line was very stiff. I think it would still hold if the two half hitches were on the bight.

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, TheShipsCat said:

I find that most boats I've hired are supplied with three pins, one without a ring, just a flat washer at the top, often a rather skimpy washer at that.  What is the purpose of this ringless mooring pin?  I would not trust the washer to hold a line, unless there's a special knot that I don't know about.

 

 

The washer performs no function when a mooring stake is used correctly. Knock the stake in at a slight angle so the mooring line pulls at roughly 90 degrees to the axis of the stake.

 

I'd say you get three stakes simply because if a hirer drops one in and loses it, a spare stake on board saves the yard an emergency call-out!

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The washer performs no function when a mooring stake is used correctly. Knock the stake in at a slight angle so the mooring line pulls at roughly 90 degrees to the axis of the stake.

 

I'd say you get three stakes simply because if a hirer drops one in and loses it, a spare stake on board saves the yard an emergency call-out!

 

In that case they should supply two lump hammers as well, in case the head comes off and falls in the canal in the middle of Stoke as night is falling. DAMHIK... 😞 

[Ken X]

As serial hirers we carry our own boating kit of a set of three lines , a couple of nappy pins , a couple of fenders , two pins and a mallet. For trips down the weed hatch it contains a junior hacksaw, pump pliers, sharp folding knife and other assorted hand tools.

 

We find we can fix most things and carry on boating rather than waiting for the yard to assist. We have, over the years helped several other boats as well.   

[LadyG]

I often use a clove hitch to attach a pin which has no loop. The knot can be tightened up on the pin if the rope is suitable. 

I may use a round turn and half hitch when mooring on a fixture, including a ring.

Often a lighter man's hitch will serve the purpose.