My 57 ft Boat refurb

[Manxcat54]

Hi

This is the narrowboat which I acquired at a decently cheap price, knowing that it was in need of a hell of a lot of work, I had it brought to our Farm only last Friday, and I have been doing a few hours on it after work, and whenever, it's difficult because I have some spinal stenosis, and can only stand up for short spells. However I am doing quite well, the boat is a 1979 build, we think a Teddesley, it has a Peugeot 504 diesel engine with skin tanks to cool it. I have discovered that the wooden interior had been refreshed at some point by adding a nice decorative pine ply, this was both glued and screwed using very small cross head screws, which were rotten and could not be removed, the ply on the sides is 1/2 inch stuff, held onto the steel with brass screws (flat head type 1979) it's been heavy work. I vomited when I opened the U bend in the sink! anyway that's all history, I have virtually cleared the starboard side back until the engine. I found the easiest way to remove the ply was to locate the securing screw, then using a 30mm hole saw, drill/saw just to one side, thus the panel is released and it leaves a circular piece held by the rotten old screw, which I can just grind off. I had the toilet pumped out by a waste /cess tank guy, it is virtually empty, but I up to now not seen a way of moving it? but some t&g flooring is still trapping it, I was more concerned to find a hell of a lot of rust nearby on the base plate, I removed 3 big sacks of rust and I was worried, however I have cleaned quite a few areas back to solid steel and using my ultra sound tester, it all comes up as being 9.7mm, 9.4mm and the worst one was 9.3mm amazing, but I did see a video on YouTube I think it's narrowboat Precious, and he had similar rust, I have found my rust to be caused by a water leak beneath the shower, which is all now on the bonfire, I hope this makes some interesting reading for someone on the forum, and as you can see from the photo's I have a long way to go. Sorry but 3 of my pics turned sideways, I presume they correct themselves?

Edited February 24, 2024 by Manxcat54

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes - a lot of work ahead of you but it should be worth it in the end.

 

Don't worry about the sideways pictures, it should right itself when you put it back in the water.

 

 

 

Whilst you have it in bits - check the engine. I think the Peugeot 2.3D (as used in the 504) has a cam belt. Cam belts are really a no-no on inland waterways boats due to the limited access they almost never get changed, or even checked.

 

(At 70hp its a pretty big engine for a narrowboat - it is never going to be running efficiently)

 

Replace the cam belt, irrespective of its condition, it could save you having to replace the whole engine in the future (loads of cost and hassle).

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

I had the toilet pumped out by a waste /cess tank guy, it is virtually empty, but I up to now not seen a way of moving it? but some t&g flooring is still trapping it,

If you have a steel toilet tank that is as old as the boat the top will probably be paper thin. I cut mine up in situ with an angle grinder to remove them.

[Manxcat54]

I think I will do that, then see what's left

[truckcab79]

Lovely.  Keep posting. Love to see a build project.  
 

👍

[Manxcat54]

On 24/02/2024 at 17:54, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes - a lot of work ahead of you but it should be worth it in the end.

 

Don't worry about the sideways pictures, it should right itself when you put it back in the water.

 

 

 

Whilst you have it in bits - check the engine. I think the Peugeot 2.3D (as used in the 504) has a cam belt. Cam belts are really a no-no on inland waterways boats due to the limited access they almost never get changed, or even checked.

 

(At 70hp its a pretty big engine for a narrowboat - it is never going to be running efficiently)

 

Replace the cam belt, irrespective of its condition, it could save you having to replace the whole engine in the future (loads of cost and hassle).

We checked the engine over and it has a chain driven camshaft (thankfully) it turns over so it isn't seized, we are waiting until the weather gets better to work on it, rest of the boat comes first.

[jonathanA]

just noticed the flooring in your pictures.  - that might be worth keeping because it looks like expensive decent solid wood flooring - German I think - can't remember the name.  might only be fit for the stove, but if its the stuff I'm thinking of, you could sand that and oil or varnish it and it could be lovely. it looked like there was a fair bit in reasonable condition - just a thought.

 

Good luck and keep posting ! 

[Manxcat54]

Oh eck too late for most of it, gone to the bonfire, yes it was decent wood, but most of it was rotten. They say a 57 ft boat with ballast should weigh around 13.5 tons, this one was 18tons, probably due to the flooring and 1/2 inch solid 1970s ply on the walls, I think I have now lightened the boat by at least 3 tons.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

Oh eck too late for most of it, gone to the bonfire, yes it was decent wood, but most of it was rotten. They say a 57 ft boat with ballast should weigh around 13.5 tons, this one was 18tons, probably due to the flooring and 1/2 inch solid 1970s ply on the walls, I think I have now lightened the boat by at least 3 tons.

Mine weighs a lot more than that

 

2 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

Oh eck too late for most of it, gone to the bonfire, yes it was decent wood, but most of it was rotten. They say a 57 ft boat with ballast should weigh around 13.5 tons, this one was 18tons, probably due to the flooring and 1/2 inch solid 1970s ply on the walls, I think I have now lightened the boat by at least 3 tons.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Mine weighs a lot more than that

 

 

 

My 36 foot GRP cruiser weighs 11.5 tons (according to the crane driver)

 

I wonder who 'they' are who have told him it'll be 13 tons ?

[Mad Harold]

On 28/02/2024 at 07:11, Manxcat54 said:

We checked the engine over and it has a chain driven camshaft (thankfully) it turns over so it isn't seized, we are waiting until the weather gets better to work on it, rest of the boat comes first.

Sounds like the same engine as fitted in my old Ford Sierra 2.3D.

The cam chain did in fact break on it, and although my local garage stripped and repaired the engine, it was never the same again and sounded like a sack of spanners.

[MtB]

59 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Sounds like the same engine as fitted in my old Ford Sierra 2.3D.

The cam chain did in fact break on it, and although my local garage stripped and repaired the engine, it was never the same again and sounded like a sack of spanners.

 

 

Curious how cam chains have a reputation for not breaking. The duplex cam chain on my old 2.8 Mitsubishi Shogun broke too. Wrecked the cylinder head but the bottom end was robust enough to need no work (other than the new cam chain). 

[truckcab79]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Curious how cam chains have a reputation for not breaking. The duplex cam chain on my old 2.8 Mitsubishi Shogun broke too. Wrecked the cylinder head but the bottom end was robust enough to need no work (other than the new cam chain). 

Anything can break of course but with chains it’s more likely to be stretched so badly that it jumps or even strips a tooth.  That or the tensioner fails. Might still break in the ensuing destruction but not often the initial cause. Amazing how slack they can be before they let go.  

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Curious how cam chains have a reputation for not breaking. The duplex cam chain on my old 2.8 Mitsubishi Shogun broke too. Wrecked the cylinder head but the bottom end was robust enough to need no work (other than the new cam chain). 

When I first met the boss she had a Vauxhall Chevet, The time chain cog gave out on that Christmas eve at the exit of Dartford tunnel, no other damage

 

[Iain_S]

17 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

When I first met the boss she had a Vauxhall Chevet, The time chain cog gave out on that Christmas eve at the exit of Dartford tunnel, no other damage

 

Petrol or diesel? A petrol engine is far more likely to escape damage, as the lower compression ratio allows greater valve/piston clearance.

[Stilllearning]

15 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Petrol or diesel? A petrol engine is far more likely to escape damage, as the lower compression ratio allows greater valve/piston clearance.

My mother's Ka broke its cam chain in Brittany, but she was only doing about 20mph, as usual, and got away with just a valve or two, plus done free as it turned out her car should have had a recall for a cam chain defect.

[Manxcat54]

On 24/02/2024 at 22:03, truckcab79 said:

Lovely.  Keep posting. Love to see a build project.  
 

👍

Sorry but I am so tired and I cannot make my images spin correctly, been on the boat all day, very hard graft and that insulation is the pits, but we are moving on slowly, nearly half the boat stripped, all the wiring is ripped out and a few bits and bobs corrected, I am hoping by this time next weekend we will be ready for some paint on the inside.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just in case you are not aware - there appears to be some grey 'flat twin & earth' domestic wiring cable - this is not allowed to be used on boats.

 

Ensure when you rewire you use multi-strand flexible cables / wires ONLY.

[David Mack]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just in case you are not aware - there appears to be some grey 'flat twin & earth' domestic wiring cable - this is not allowed to be used on boats.

 

Ensure when you rewire you use multi-strand flexible cables / wires ONLY.

Not on new boats as I understand it, and not advised on any boat. But it is technically permitted and would not be a BSS failure.

Edited March 3, 2024 by David Mack

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Not on new boats as I understand it, and not advised on any boat.

 

Not to be used on any post 1998 boat, and advised not to be used on any boat.

 

When you are going back to a bare metal rebuild surely it is best to use current 'best practice'.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not to be used on any post 1998 boat, and advised not to be used on any boat.

 

Ah yes, that tired old trope.

 

Yes there are rules saying no solid conductors but nobody cares and nobody checks. The main purpose of the rule is to give insurance companies a get out of jail free card to avoid paying out a claim. Nobody seriously believes solid conductors on a narrowboat present a significant real life existential risk to the boat. Do they?! 

[David Mack]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When you are going back to a bare metal rebuild surely it is best to use current 'best practice'.

Absolutely. Which is why I said it is not advised.

But you are wrong in saying it is not allowed.

Neither have you (here or elsewhere) given any evidence that it is not permitted on a post 1998 boat. It does not comply with the relevant ISO standards, which are included in industry guidance documents, but as has been repeated on here ad nauseum, the RCR does not actually require compliance with those ISO standards.

[truckcab79]

4 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

Sorry but I am so tired and I cannot make my images spin correctly, been on the boat all day, very hard graft and that insulation is the pits, but we are moving on slowly, nearly half the boat stripped, all the wiring is ripped out and a few bits and bobs corrected, I am hoping by this time next weekend we will be ready for some paint on the inside.

Very satisfying. Nothing like ending the day physically exhausted from your hard work.  👍. Looks great. 

 

That insulation is horrible stuff.  Makes me glad that the only insulation I’ve had to deal with on our ripout is some ridiculously thin polystyrene.  Fibreglass / rockwool just seems like a recipe for disaster in terms of holding moisture (if it gets in), though yours seems fine.

 

With regard to the following posts  get yourself a copy of the regs and work to it yourself to make sure that you’re happy that your build is compliant for your next safety cert.  Far more sensible than trusting some random on a forum to tell you how it should or shouldn’t be done. 

Edited March 4, 2024 by truckcab79

[jonathanA]

It's got to get worse before it gets better ... .

In terms of 'Regs' it's the BSS boat safety scheme that you need to meet.

 

Make sure you look at the private boat version.

 

Using domestic T&E isn't a fail but not recommended. Its awful stuff to use on a boat anyway.  

 

 

[truckcab79]

@Manxcat54  just realised there aren’t any pics of the exterior. Post some up. Let’s see what you’ve got. 👍