Land

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Sometimes bits come up on the River Nene. You are probably looking £50K+

 

How much does the level fluctuate over the seasons?

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How much does the level fluctuate over the seasons?

 

 

No idea, I have no plans to buy any land for a mooring, of course if the OP wants to live there that would also require planning consent

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No idea,

 

I was just wondering about the reports/rumours that in Billings the level changes by up to 10 ft. The OP would be well advised to check before buying any plot on a river. 

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Handy if it is a mooring, no water, no floaty

🙂 Yes all right ... mains/drinking water .. although the clue was "canal side" and its a usable canal in water 🤪

[Peanut]

I recall there are two plot search sites, one is 'plot finder' sorry I can't remember the other.  You register with the sites, and they keep you updated. You can search for land on Rightmove, only I don't think you will have much luck with either.  One reason housing is in short supply is the limited availability and high cost of land, not long ago the average cost of a building plot with access and planning permission was £150,000.  There are regional variations, and I know there are plots available in parts of Scotland, for about £30,000, but off grid, and no canal.

You might do better asking arround in places you would like to be, but land owners, as dmr says above, may have a different idea of the value.  Maybe keep your eyes out while cruising arround.

[magnetman]

Land is an interesting question of course..

 

i suppose a lot of people after the initial excitement of living on a boat dies down begin to think about the basic insecurity of not being allowed to be anywhere. 

 

The 'holy grail' is a small plot of land with a mooring. 

 

It is understandable but also fraught with problems around mooring rights and access &c. 

 

There is an interesting way to get around these problems. 

 

Buy a house. 

 

 

[stagedamager]

I've seen the water at Billing go up by 6ft overnight when they open the Washland sluices. I'd be very wary of mooring on line on the Nene without a good floating mooring. it took us 20 years to find our piece of land and private water, and that wasn't openly advertised.  Good luck with your search!

[Ray T]

Ocassionaly plots become available along the Barby Straight near Rugby. They are expensive though.

[magnetman]

I have always idly wondered what the deal would be if you had a narrow boat and bought a strip of land too short to moor it but deep enough to dig out a dock. Would you be allowed to do this? 

 

Obviously there is also the question of being able to turn the boat to get it in to the entrance. 

 

I'm just wondering what if any permission you would need to dig a hole in your own land. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm just wondering what if any permission you would need to dig a hole in your own land. 

 

You'd need C&RTS approval to cut thru the bank and use their water to fill your hole.

You are required to provide a full plan of how you will 'do it' and ensure that your 'marina' will not allow the loss of any water.

 

You may need planning permission because the amount of earth being moved may well be classed as 'work' and, possibly for change of use from (say) agricultural to leisure  &/or residential.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You may need planning permission because the amount of earth being moved may well be classed as 'work' and, possibly for change of use from (say) agricultural to leisure  &/or residential.

 

I have been wondering about digging out a similar channel in an elevated part of my front garden to make a space to moor my van. I have been advised by someone I'd expect to be right that I'll need PP to remove the earth. Weird. 

 

Apparently the need to use mechanised, powered equipment (e.g. a JCB) is the dividing line. If I dig it out by hand with a spade and wheelbarrow, no PP would be necessary. 

 

 

[Higgs]

CRT don't own water. They manage it. But, if it's on your land, it is notionally yours. Until it strays onto someone else's land. 

 

Let your hole fill up with rainwater, then make it as an offering to CRT, or let the bank erode, and there will be a natural mixing of notions of ownership.

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

Just now, MtB said:

 

I have been wondering about digging out a similar channel in an elevated part of my front garden to make a space to moor my van. I have been advised by someone I'd expect to be right that I'll need PP to remove the earth. Weird. 

 

Apparently the need to use mechanised, powered equipment (e.g. a JCB) is the dividing line. If I dig it out by hand with a spade and wheelbarrow, no PP would be necessary. 

 

 

 

That is interesting and explains a curious thing I saw a number of yars ago on the Thames. 

 

A healthy and fit young bloke was always in the River with waders digging. I saw him every time I passed then I was away for a while and the next time I passed he had a nice little dock cut out of his garden and moored his boat in it. 

 

I wonder if employing a load of burly Poles to do it and giving them loads of Tyskie would need PP.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Higgs said:

CRT don't own water. They manage it. But, if it's on your land, it is notionally yours. Until it strays onto someone else's land. 

 

Let your hole fill up with rainwater, then make it as an offering to CRT, or let the bank erode, and there will be a natural mixing of notions of ownership.

 

I think a landowner on the South Oxford did something similar, except it was his land where BW had allowed the bank to erode back several meters. He deepened it and let it as moorings. BW started to take action and I think a court case ensued. The result was the landowner won, or when BW realised what his argument was backed off, I don't know which it was, but the moorings are still there. My guess is that EoG type charges from CaRT do not apply.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think a landowner on the South Oxford did something similar, except it was his land where BW had allowed the bank to erode back several meters. He deepened it and let it as moorings. BW started to take action and I think a court case ensued. The result was the landowner won, or when BW realised what his argument was backed off, I don't know which it was, but the moorings are still there. My guess is that EoG type charges from CaRT do not apply.

 

 

Its faintly surprising BW didn't restore the offside bankline by installing an accurately placed line of new piling. 

 

 

 

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think a landowner on the South Oxford did something similar, except it was his land where BW had allowed the bank to erode back several meters. He deepened it and let it as moorings. BW started to take action and I think a court case ensued. The result was the landowner won, or when BW realised what his argument was backed off, I don't know which it was, but the moorings are still there. My guess is that EoG type charges from CaRT do not apply.

 

You can't own water. CRT's authority ends at land boundaries. If the boats are on a farmer's land, and inside the boundary, CRT have no jurisdiction. Any thing can float off an eroded field, or onto and over an eroded field boundary. One side needs a boat licence. 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

Its faintly surprising BW didn't restore the offside bankline by installing an accurately placed line of new piling. 

 

 

 

 

I suspect that if they had, the landowner would have insisted that they fully restore his land and remove their water. I have a feeling that BW did start to stake the moorings ff and that was when the court case ensued.

[magnetman]

They did put piling across the entrance to a marina at Yardley Gobion on the GU at one stage. 

 

[Higgs]

CRT don't accept responsibility for the upkeep of the general offside banks. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Higgs

[GUMPY]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I have been wondering about digging out a similar channel in an elevated part of my front garden to make a space to moor my van. I have been advised by someone I'd expect to be right that I'll need PP to remove the earth. Weird. 

 

Apparently the need to use mechanised, powered equipment (e.g. a JCB) is the dividing line. If I dig it out by hand with a spade and wheelbarrow, no PP would be necessary. 

 

 

It's not so much PP that you will need but the whole excavation will have to meet  building regs which can be fun.

[magnetman]

When canals were constructed I believe the canal company would have been awarded a strip of land each side. One for the towpath and the other for mooring of boats. 

 

I don't know how this works in reality but if you look at old maps there are sometimes parcels of land on the offside which are separate from other land holdings. 

 

When canals were commercial boats moored on the offside. 

 

 

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

They did put piling across the entrance to a marina at Yardley Gobion on the GU at one stage. 

 

 

But nothing beyond the boundary, into land that wasn't controlled by the waterways authority.

 

 

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

When canals were constructed I believe the canal company would have been awarded a strip of land each side. One for the towpath and the other for mooring of boats. 

 

I don't know how this works in reality but if you look at old maps there are sometimes parcels of land on the offside which are separate from other land holdings. 

 

When canals were commercial boats moored on the offside. 

 

 

 

Ransom strips, I think.

 

 

[magnetman]

Other than wharves it makes a lot of sense for these offside moorings and a strip of land to be owned by the canal company.

 

Without doing this in the planning stage you would be opening yourself up to undesirable problems. 

 

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I have always idly wondered what the deal would be if you had a narrow boat and bought a strip of land too short to moor it but deep enough to dig out a dock. Would you be allowed to do this? 

 

Obviously there is also the question of being able to turn the boat to get it in to the entrance. 

 

I'm just wondering what if any permission you would need to dig a hole in your own land. 

 

 

To connect to the canal you'd have to enter into a Network Access Agreement with CRT and pay them 9% of the local going mooring rate. But cheaper than paying them 50% simply for mooring against your own land.

[magnetman]

The main reason I find it interesting is that one could buy a strip of land a lot shorter than the length of the Boat as long as it was deep enough. A lot of plots do seem deeper than the width. 

 

Also having ones Boat in a dock with the bow sticking towards the waterway seems quite a nice way to be moored. 

 

View out the window of one's own gardens and no crashing around when racers go past. 

 

Seems ideal to me if it was doable. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by magnetman