Juno gas locker modifications

[magpie patrick]

Just thinking aloud really - you all know the problem, Juno's gas locker was built for small dumpy cylinders that Calor are now declining to replace.

 

the gas locker is the left-hand end of the bench seat

As shown here. That's the top of a 3.9kg Calor propane cylinder. A 6kg is too tall, and a 5kg patio gas cylinder is too wide although it would fit height wise.

 

So the question is whether to increase the height of the locker or whether to make it wider.

 

the increase in height would be about the height of the cushion over the next bit of the bench. Not drastic but not ideal - there would be a step in the bench which could be addressed visually by leaving the cushion off the gas locker but practically you couldn't sit in the corner. 

 

The gas locker gets more use as a step than a seat - It's quite narrow as it is partially under the gunnel as the photos below show 

There is a third option - hang the cylinders off the transom and use the locker for storage. I'm not sure of the wisdom, practicality or safety of that one though!

 

 

So that's me thinking out loud, what would the various devil's advocates on the forum say? 

 

Thanks all!

[BEngo]

Hang them off the transom.  Much the safest place in the event of a leak, easy to access, simple(ish) to do.  Captain Faffer @W+Thas ( had?) some suitable lockable  cages.

 

N

 

 

[rusty69]

13 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

dumpy cylinders that Calor are now declining to replace.

I think the 3.9 and 4.5 are still available, though only at a calor distribution centre:

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-views/update-to-cylinder-range

 

Or use flogas:-

 

 

Quote

• Capacity: 3.9kg
• Tare Weight: 6.2kg
• Height: 340mm - 370mm approx*
• Diameter: 240mm approx
• Recommended Offtake: 25,000 BTU / hr

Please note: cylinder sizes may vary in both height and width. If you require a specific size we recommend collecting from your local Flogas stockist. You can find your local stockist from our

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by rusty69

[Jen-in-Wellies]

If not hanging them off the transom, then increasing the height would need less glass fibre work to make the locker gas tight than increasing in another dimension.

[Chris Lowe]

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

increasing in another dimension.

I don't think Patrick has a Tardis yet Jen.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said:

I don't think Patrick has a Tardis yet Jen.

Just think; narrow boats with wide beam sized cabins inside.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said:

I don't think Patrick has a Tardis yet Jen.

@Laurie Boothdoes though.,and he's on friendly terms with a dalek. 

[blackrose]

What about extending the locker out widthways at an angle? You'd only need to make one new locker side and a new lid. I think that's less work than extending it up higher on all sides.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by blackrose

[magnetman]

I'd modify it to fit the Calor 6s. They are the same diameter as the 3.9s. 

 

 

 

 

[GUMPY]

I'd just buy Flogas 3.9🤔

[magpie patrick]

Thanks all - I like the lateral thinking of @blackrose which runs well ahead of increasing the height of the locker. It's that or a cage on the transom.

 

Whatever the theoretical availability of cylinders in practice 6kg propane or 5kg patio gas are by far the easiest. My local flogas depot need an exchange cylinder (which I haven't got) and getting another 3.9kg means visiting a depot, neither the boatyard nor their distributor can get them. 

 

 

[magnetman]

I wonder if Calor might stop doing the 5kg 'patio gas' at some stage. 

 

It is interesting to consider why the 3.9 and 4.5 have been removed from the range. 

 

Is there a valid reason given? 

 

I wondered if these were regularly getting refilled at home and Calor wanted to distance themselves from any potential problems if something goes bang from overfilling. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

Whatever the theoretical availability of cylinders in practice 6kg propane or 5kg patio gas are by far the easiest. My local flogas depot need an exchange cylinder (which I haven't got) and getting another 3.9kg means visiting a depot, neither the boatyard nor their distributor can get them. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I wondered if these were regularly getting refilled at home

 

 

That is always the other option.

Easy enough to do.

[magnetman]

Yes. one of my boats was designed to use the 3.9/4.5 bottles. It has open gas holders so the 6 works alright but the 3.9 looks better. 

 

Significantly tempted to get a 19 and do manual fills bearing in mind there is no need to go anywhere near full bottle because you can do it again.

 

Makes a lot of sense. 

 

Not on the boat. 

 

 

I'd aim to put in just 50 percent to stay well away from any danger areas regards overfilling. 

 

Unless you are a very high consumer this will last a while anyway. 

 

 

A number of yars ago I had liquid coming out of the cooker instead of gas. Fortunately a spark did not ignite it.

 

I thought at the time perhaps it was a regulator failing open but thinking about it I would not rule out that the supplier I bought it from may have been buying refilled bottles and that one was too full. 

 

Its plausible. It was a 3.9 which for obvious reasons are the ones most likely to be refilled outside of Calor depots. 

 

 

 

 

 

Given how cheap LPG is in the real non Calor Cartel world it is bound to happen. It can't not happen.

 

Interesting if FloGas do not take the little Calor cylinders. Arrr they in cahoots ? Surely not ! 

[magpie patrick]

The stated reason was "to better serve our customers" but then it always is. I think when demand went mad in covid Calor made a policy of prioritising larger cylinders and to some extent Patio Gas - larger cylinders tend to be business users such hire fleets and caravan sites, whilst Patio Gas has quite a mark up. 

 

In effect its been difficult to get Calor (and Flogas) 3.9kg since 2020, an virtually impossible without an exchange. 

 

The thought had crossed my mind that the small Patio Gas might be discontinued, and also that flogas might stop doing the 3.9kg too. 

 

To add, given the amount of gas I use cost is almost irrelevant. I've been on board most weekends this summer and not used anything like an entire 3.9kg cylinder 

 

Further thought - I don't think it's anything like as easy to self-fill Patio Gas bottles as the tap is on the regulator not the bottle, and I suspect the regulator stops any backflow into the bottle 

[cuthound]

17 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Just think; narrow boats with wide beam sized cabins inside.

 

Yes but the TARDIS noise would have to be switched off between 8:00pm.and 8:00am, so you would still have to sleep in a narrow bedroom... 😅😂

Edited September 2, 2023 by cuthound
To remove a full stop masquerading as a space.

[magnetman]

I sometimes wonder when someone will put together a narrow boat with slideout cabin sides. 

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I sometimes wonder when someone will put together a narrow boat with slideout cabin sides. 

That's been suggested before. Unlike a caravan/motorhome they'd only be able to expand above water level, which is practically useless... 😞

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

That's been suggested before. Unlike a caravan/motorhome they'd only be able to expand above water level, which is practically useless... 😞

Not really. Usually a slideout is related to seating areas which in a lot of cases have a cushioned platform which is above the water line. Not far above but far enough to work. I think a sofa slideout on a canal boat could work. 

 

It isn't about providing more square feet it is about providing the illusion of having more square feet. 

 

 

 

 

A bit nasty when someone hits it with another boat though ! 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

The problem being that (if you can understand my desciption) the 'furntiture' (benches tables, whatever.......) that fit in the slide outs are actually blocking the inside of the boat / vehicle when they are slid in. So the inside of the boat would be unusable.

 

If the slide-outs were each 3 foot 'deep' when they are slid into the 'in' position they would take up ALL of the internal width of a NB.

[magnetman]

Good point. 

 

3ft seems a bit excessive I think in a narrow boat one foot extra or maybe 18 inches would be good. Not had a nb since 2008 but when I went from 7ft to 9ft wide the difference was amazing. 

 

You don't need a lot but I suppose as with so many other things it is basically pointless. 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Good point. 

 

3ft seems a bit excessive I think in a narrow boat one foot extra or maybe 18 inches would be good. Not had a nb since 2008 but when I went from 7ft to 9ft wide the difference was amazing. 

 

You don't need a lot but I suppose as with so many other things it is basically pointless. 

 

 

 

 

I bet the BSS would insist that the bottom of the slide out must be 10" above the water line, which might make it only suitable for coffin-beds.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I bet the BSS would insist that the bottom of the slide out must be 10" above the water line, which might make it only suitable for coffin-beds.

only on hire boats

[IanD]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

Not really. Usually a slideout is related to seating areas which in a lot of cases have a cushioned platform which is above the water line. Not far above but far enough to work. I think a sofa slideout on a canal boat could work. 

 

It isn't about providing more square feet it is about providing the illusion of having more square feet. 

 

 

 

 

A bit nasty when someone hits it with another boat though ! 

 

 

If you think where the level of a sofa/seat is compared to the waterline, it should be obvious why this won't work... 😉

[system 4-50]

Didn't there used to be forklift gas bottles that operated on their sides?  Are they still available?