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Awful incident a Autherley Junction today.


churchward

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21 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Drawing the paddles of the next higher lock is about the best hope.  But it is not a great solution as it raises the level of the pound but not necessarily of the lock.  With the boat grounded on the cill and a tight fit widthways, there is not much of a passage to replenish the water being lost from the lock.

 

It's a horrible situation.

 

 

...but it wouldn't have worked, because with the boat acting as a bung in the lock entrance you can't get enough water past it to stop the level inside the lock dropping rapidly, and can't raise the upper pound level fast enough to float the bows off.

 

Even once we'd reversed off the cill and into the lock, it took quite a long time (maybe 10-15 minutes?) of running water down to raise the level enough to get out safely, and all the time water was p*ssing through the bottom gates... 😞

 

It was indeed horrible, and the only reason we didn't sink was having seen the description of the sinking incident here on CWDF -- so a heartfelt thank-you to whoever it was that posted that 🙂

Edited by IanD
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44 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

But that is my point. I don't stay on the boat. Especially not when another boater kindly offers 'help' and tells me to 'stay on the boat'.

 

If something goes wrong (e.g. bow fender gets caught in the gate, or whatever) the last place you need to be is on the boat, at the helm.

 

I do. I'd rather be at the helm then on the bank. But my boat is only 57ft long so there's no need for the bow or stern to be anywhere near the gates. 

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4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I do. I'd rather be at the helm then on the bank. But my boat is only 57ft long so there's no need for the bow or stern to be anywhere near the gates. 

Except on some Northern canals where that's the maximum length or close to it... 😉

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

Other boaters never have the interests of your boat foremost in their minds and after opening the paddles have a habit of either walking off to attend to their own boat, or get chatting with other people lockside etc whilst ignoring your frantic sounding of the horn.

 

DAMHIK. 

As do volunteer lockies on occasion.

 

DAMHIK.

 

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14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

As do volunteer lockies on occasion.

 

DAMHIK.

 

I upset one volunteer when I shouted at him as he put the paddles up and walked off into his shed to get his cup of tea leaving the paddles unattended.

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53 minutes ago, IanD said:

Except on some Northern canals where that's the maximum length or close to it... 😉

 

I'm not on the northern canals 😉 but if I ever get up North on my boat and I'm in those particular locks then I might refuse the offer of help and stay on the bank. However, I can't help thinking that I've still got more control of my boat at the helm.

Edited by blackrose
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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

we know he shouldnt have, but his stern mooring line was coiled up on the deck near the base of the tiller, it had fallen off the stern as he came into the lock and was trailing out behind him.

What is advisable for storing the stern mooring lines while underway? We have a couple of hooks we hang them from on the railing of our cruise stern

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1 minute ago, sigsegv said:

What is advisable for storing the stern mooring lines while underway? We have a couple of hooks we hang them from on the railing of our cruise stern

Unhook from the bollard or tee stud, coil up and store on the cabin roof or rear slide, where it will be to hand when next needed.

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34 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm not on the northern canals 😉 but if I ever get up North on my boat and I'm in those particular locks then I might refuse the offer of help and stay on the bank. However, I can't help thinking that I've still got more control of my boat at the helm.

It's a six of one/half a dozen of the other problem. If you stay on the boat you have more control of it and are less likely to get into trouble at either end of the lock -- but if something does go wrong unexpectedly you can't get to the paddles quickly if whoever is on the bank doesn't...

16 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Unhook from the bollard or tee stud, coil up and store on the cabin roof or rear slide, where it will be to hand when next needed.

That's certainly what trad boaters with no railing did. So long as the rope is secure on the hooks so it can't fall or get kicked over the stern I don't see a problem with this solution on a cruiser stern rail, which trads don't have.

 

Especially for less experienced boaters who when in a hurry might well forgot that the rope isn't attached to the boat with your "trad" solution, and throw the whole thing off the boat. No it wasn't me, but I did find it funny... 🙂

Edited by IanD
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I always have an emergency rope cutter tool in my back pocket on a day when I'm going to be doing locks. The real question is whether I'd have the presence of mind to remember it was there, if the worst actually happened.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beaver-Sports-Trigger-Cutter-Orange/dp/B07BH42329/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=emergency+rope+cutter&qid=1685622915&sr=8-18

 

 

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It is good in a way that the Topic has spawned a discussion about boating safety.

 

It is with great sadness however that we have learnt this morning that the poor man died in the night in hospital from his injuries. His wife is being cared for.

 

I am truly upset today, there are images in my head that will take some time to fade and I am so sorry for his family and friends. 

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5 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I always have an emergency rope cutter tool in my back pocket on a day when I'm going to be doing locks. The real question is whether I'd have the presence of mind to remember it was there, if the worst actually happened.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beaver-Sports-Trigger-Cutter-Orange/dp/B07BH42329/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=emergency+rope+cutter&qid=1685622915&sr=8-18

 

 

I wish I'd had one a few years back, going up a staircase lock a CRT workman advised my daughter's BF (it was his first canal holiday) to drop two turns of centreline rope round the bollard instead of one (as he had been doing) so he wouldn't need to pull on the rope so hard. As the boat rose above the bollard the rope tightened and locked one turn over the other, boat started to tilt -- I was at the other end of the second lock and couldn't get there fast enough, by the time I did it was locked solid -- both paddles were open so I couldn't drop them fast enough. Luckily the workman saw what was happening and ran over and cut the rope with his saw (they were putting up new railings), boat rocked violently from side to side, cue crashing noises and swearing from inside. We lost a bottle of gin *and* a bottle of chilli sauce, and a mixture of both these and broken glass is good for nothing... 😞

 

Apart from wishing I had a rope cutter in my pocket, this also shows that just because somebody works for CRT doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're talking about when giving advice to boaters... 😉

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I have a friend who by all rights should be mincemeat..

It was the habit when coming up the Northampton arm  that you would leave a lock drop the boat into reverse to bring it back to you then step off and close the gate.

J had done this many times until one day as she stepped off the boat her jacket caught on a bolt on the rear doors. This sent her tumbling into the cut behind her boat that was starting to reverse back towards her.  Realising she couldn't get out in time the only place she could go was the gate recess in the lock wall, making herself as small and as upright as she could she shrank into the recess. The boat came back and passed by her and continued back until it hit the bottom gates. J is a small person and had it been anyone bigger they would not have survived.

Since this incident we removed all the bolts of the back doors of our boats and now stop the boat in the lock exit rather than be lazy and let the engine do the work for you.

 

ETA 

Time flies, just looked it up and this happened in March 1998 on the way back from the Westbridge Arm

Edited by GUMPY
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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I think they are called "Volocky" operated locks - although my own experience suggests they do tend to be more dangerous than other locks.

Ether me of the misses is on the bank as well as them. If she has gone ahead I will be on the bank, no one on the boat, I don't mind climbing ladders.

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2 hours ago, churchward said:

It is good in a way that the Topic has spawned a discussion about boating safety.

 

It is with great sadness however that we have learnt this morning that the poor man died in the night in hospital from his injuries. His wife is being cared for.

 

I am truly upset today, there are images in my head that will take some time to fade and I am so sorry for his family and friends. 

So sorry for the family concerned and also all of you who witnessed it. Can't imagine how horrible and upsetting it must have been. I hope it doesn't spoil your experience of boating.

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4 hours ago, magnetman said:

It would be great to have kill cords attached to the morse control on canal boats. OK not everyone would use it but a really handy addition. 

 

It is a legal requirement for outboard motors. 

 

Easy enough to wire it to the stop solenoid. It could be a magnet on the end of a cord opening a reed switch. 

Are you sure it is legal requirement for outboard motors. I know it is for RIB's and Jetskies where there is a possibility of you being knocked off but in a Norman cruiser on the Thames then I do not think it is required 

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2 hours ago, churchward said:

It is good in a way that the Topic has spawned a discussion about boating safety.

 

It is with great sadness however that we have learnt this morning that the poor man died in the night in hospital from his injuries. His wife is being cared for.

 

I am truly upset today, there are images in my head that will take some time to fade and I am so sorry for his family and friends. 

 

It's no consolation to his family, but if it turns out that the cause of the accident can be established, and it was something that boaters can be advised to avoid doing in future (and they take notice of this advice!), there's some small chance that it will save another family the same grief...

Edited by IanD
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24 minutes ago, MrsM said:

So sorry for the family concerned and also all of you who witnessed it. Can't imagine how horrible and upsetting it must have been. I hope it doesn't spoil your experience of boating.

It has certainly spoilt the last couple of days and with the images in my head and the knowledge he died, I won't get too much sleep again tonight.

 

Still, I have been boating for the last 15 years in my own boat and 35 years or so before that in share and hire boats so I have seen some sights over that time but this is the most gruesome and tragic without doubt. But I expect to keep on boating until age or health tells me I'm done.

29 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

It's no consolation to his family, but if it turns out that the cause of the accident can be established, and it was something that boaters can be advised to avoid doing in future (and they take notice of this advice!), there's some small chance that it will save another family the same grief...

Yes, it would be worthwhile to use the tragedy to warn other boaters of the risks.

 

I do know more of the circumstances than I have said but right now I have no wish to regurgitate all that I saw.  All I will say is beware of the danger of sitting on a cruiser or any stern within the sweep of the tiller arm and the boat moving in gear.

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20 minutes ago, churchward said:

It has certainly spoilt the last couple of days and with the images in my head and the knowledge he died, I won't get too much sleep again tonight.

I do know more of the circumstances than I have said but right now I have no wish to regurgitate all that I saw.  All I will say is beware of the danger of sitting on a cruiser or any stern within the sweep of the tiller arm and the boat moving in gear.

I really feel for you and I can understand how it will be very difficult to stop thinking about it. My thoughts are with the boaters family.

 

From what you have said, it brings to mind discussions which crop up here from time to time about the safety or otherwise of some seats on the stern of boats and where to stand when steering . Hopefully this terrible tragedy will help make boaters be more conscious of the risks. 

 

haggis

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56 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Are you sure it is legal requirement for outboard motors. I know it is for RIB's and Jetskies where there is a possibility of you being knocked off but in a Norman cruiser on the Thames then I do not think it is required 

 

Its a requirement that the outboard is fitted with one, not a requirement it is ''used' in all applications.

The outboard (or the manufacturer) does not know if it is being used on a RIB or a Norman on the Thames.

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Its a requirement that the outboard is fitted with one, not a requirement it is ''used' in all applications.

The outboard (or the manufacturer) does not know if it is being used on a RIB or a Norman on the Thames.

But when did the requirement come in.

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16 minutes ago, haggis said:

I really feel for you and I can understand how it will be very difficult to stop thinking about it. My thoughts are with the boaters family.

 

From what you have said, it brings to mind discussions which crop up here from time to time about the safety or otherwise of some seats on the stern of boats and where to stand when steering . Hopefully this terrible tragedy will help make boaters be more conscious of the risks. 

 

haggis

 

There was such a discussion very recently in the last few pages of this, which as so often shed more heat than light on the subject...

 

 

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3 hours ago, IanD said:

It's a six of one/half a dozen of the other problem. If you stay on the boat you have more control of it and are less likely to get into trouble at either end of the lock -- but if something does go wrong unexpectedly you can't get to the paddles quickly if whoever is on the bank doesn't...

That's certainly what trad boaters with no railing did. So long as the rope is secure on the hooks so it can't fall or get kicked over the stern I don't see a problem with this solution on a cruiser stern rail, which trads don't have.

 

Especially for less experienced boaters who when in a hurry might well forgot that the rope isn't attached to the boat with your "trad" solution, and throw the whole thing off the boat. No it wasn't me, but I did find it funny... 🙂


It’s not just a “trad” thing. It was part of the syllabus on my RYA helmsman course last year.

 

The other point about it is that it puts the stern line in a position where it is ready to deploy on either rear dolly/stud.  On a boat with a cruiser rail that’s more important than on a trad because those rails are a PITA for deployment of stern lines.

 

Also to add I’ve just had the tiller ripped out of my hand by a solid object hitting the rudder. No problem as I was standing in the correct position, which is in front of the tiller no matter what type of stern you’re steering.

Edited by Captain Pegg
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