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So, I'm new to boating having just bought a 24ft Motor Sailer but more especially to BMC 1500 Captain engines, so please be kind. I have a little knowledge of engines being of an age when we could hit things with hammers when they didn't work, but I am by no means an expert so would welcome any help I can get.

 

My boat has been used as a live aboard since 2018, one of the many jobs is to get the engine running again as it has not been fired up in anger since then. So I have overhauled the water pump, replace many of the cooling hoses before moving on to the fuel supply, tried to replace the lift pump -  cant get the old one off because Mr. Boat Designer imagined I had the dexterity of a snake and would be able to slither down between the fuel tank and the engine into that tiny space where I can hardly fit my hand let alone work.  so bleeding the fuel lines seemed iffy, there is little resistance when I manually operate the lift pump, however I did get bubbles followed by free flowing diesel at the filter outlet before moving on to the injection pump, here is where I hit problems. The instructions say to crack two bleed screws, one on top of the pump and one on the side. So having cracked the one on the side of the pump, my mistake was in thinking that the bleed screw on top of the pump was the entire thing which I now discover is the anti-stall adjuster and not just the very small bolt on the top which is actually the bleed screw . Despite pumping for 3 1/2 years -seemed like it anyway - nothing came out of the screw on the side, but it was flowing freely from the top screw. Checking in line from the fuel tank, there is fuel in the water trap and lift pump,(brass gauze is clean) Although I can t tell if the pump is knackered I got bubbles at the filter outlet then free flowing diesel so I assume it is doing something at least. Then at the injection pump I got fuel from the top bleed screw but nothing from the one on the side. Advise I have had from a boat yard is to remove the entire pump and send it off to be factory set, I find that a bit strange because under the locking nut is a rubber O ring which will perish and need replacing on a fairly regular basis  and to have to remove the pump and send it away in order to replace a rubber O ring seems excessive to me. Somewhere down the line the engine has been painted with blue Hammarite and I did disassemble the anti-stall thingy to clean it up before putting it back together and refitting it. I don't know if I have by chance reset it to the correct setting but surely there has to be a way to adjust this without removing the pump and sending it away at a cost of lots of shiny pennies. 

Any advise would be very welcome 

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Yes, there is and it is described in one of the online BMC manuals. You do not need to send the pump away, but you can't do it unless the engine is running. I also can not see why the pump has to go away to change an O ring on a bleed screw or anti-stall device.

 

Why no fuel will come out of the bleed screw on the side while using the priming lever is beyond me, unless the hole in the domed adapter "nut" the bleed screw fits into is blocked - possibly a previous owner has broken the end of a bleed screw off inside it.  I would take the adapter nut out to ensure it is clear.

 

Make sure the lift pump is not sitting on the peak of the eccentric on the camshaft. If it is then the priming leaver can not deliver a full stroke of fuel.

 

There is no locknut on either bleed screw, but there is one on the anti-stall adjuster and I can't say I have noticed an O ring on it, but there might be.

 

If you get air free fuel out of the top bleed screw I would proceed to loosening the injector unions and spinning the engine. If you get drips or little spurts of fuel from there it should start.

 

If it doesn't bleed try this. Undo the filter end union on the pipe that comes up from the pump closest to the engine. Push a short length of plastic hose over the end of the pipe and direct it into a container. Set full throttle and spin the engine, that should purge any air in the pump. Expect a lot of fuel to flow into the container.

 

 

PS  - Your comment about the ease of use of the priming lever suggests the pump is on the peak of the eccentric. Turn the engine over one complete turn, and try again.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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HI Again,

 

Starting from the tank, I cracked the union at the inlet on the fuel filter, managed to get fuel up to the point (I think - not exactly gushing out) moved on to the spare outlet and did the same, undid the bleed screw on the side of the injector pump and set to on sorting the bleed screw on top of the pump, here is where I messed up.

 

I didn't realise that the anti-stall was what it is and wrongly assumed it was the bleed screw. I removed the entire thing and while I had it off I disassembled it completely and cleaned all the parts up, Spring, needle etc. There is a badly perished O ring that sits under the locking nut which I will have to replace next time I'm at the boat. I reassembled the three pieces and screwed it back onto the top of the Injector pump. Using the lift pump, I got free flowing fuel out of the bleed screw but nothing from the one on the side. I did crack a union at one of the injectors but got nothing, Im told I would need to crank the engine on the starter to achieve this which I cant do until my new batteries arrive in the next few days.

 

In summary, I have prepared the engine as best I can to fire up (not been started since 2018 but does turn freely,) Im told that these engines whilst old, are pretty robust and there should be few reasons it would not start even after such a long time. My issues before this were, (1) are the pre-heaters working and (2) are the injectors doing likewise. Now I have to add a third question, (3) is the anti stall going to stop it firing. Is there a way I can adjust the anti stall just to fire it up that would allow it to start and which I could then adjust to get the right tick over speed.

Hope all that makes sense.

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One thing that could stop it starting is old fuel.

 

If it is the original fuel I'd suggest that you get a jerry can full of 'fresh fuel', disconnect the fuel line and connect it to the Jerry can and let gravity do its job.

 

This takes any 'dirty' or old fuel and clogged filters etc 'out of the loop'

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4 minutes ago, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

(3) is the anti stall going to stop it firing. Is there a way I can adjust the anti stall just to fire it up that would allow it to start and which I could then adjust to get the right tick over speed.

 

If the anti-stall valve is badly out of adjustment it could hold the governor valve down, so it won't deliver fuel, but usually it just limits how high it will rev. The tickover adjustment is by the screw by that disk thing. If youn have put the stall device back in very approximately the correct position it should run.

 

I think that once you get it running on idle you screw the valve down until the revs just start to drop and then unscrew it a turn or two. Then set the idle on the  setscrew adjuster. However, don't take this as correct, read the manual.

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Not sure how much fuel was left in the tank but I have added 10 litres of fresh fuel myself and checked the brass gauze in the lift pump which was fine, new Fuel filter as well. Although there was not much resistance when I operated the lift pump, I did get bubbles followed by neat fuel at the spare outlet on the fuel filter and from the top bleed screw on the injector pump though nothing from the bleed screw on the side. I havent reached the 'will it start' stage yet because I am waiting on a new set of batteries as the originals are knackered and only 20ah each so I wanted to replace them anyway. 

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20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

One thing that could stop it starting is old fuel.

 

 

I think diesel would have to be really old to fail to ignite under normal compression in a diesel engine.

 

Petrol however loses the most volatile fractions first as it ages, these being put there in the first place to aid starting. So if the OP's engine in petrol then yes, new fuel is the first thing to try but if diesel, far less likely to make any difference.

 

 

  • Greenie 2
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Hi Tony,

 

Thanks for that, The bleed screw and its accompanying nuts and screws was painter over with blue Hammarite, I took it to pieces and wire brushed the threads before reassembling it. Im pretty sure that I only screwed it back together to about the same settings. I will try what you have said and report back on my glorious success - or otherwise.

Hi MtB

No its diesel, I have added 10 litres of new fuel so Im hoping that whatever was still in the tank will be combustible. I have checked the water trap, lift pump gauze and replaced the fuel filter so Im hoping that will be enough on the fuel quality side. As my other comments demonstrate, I have messed up the anti-stall not realising what it was while trying to bleed the system. Tony have given me some good pointers and I will certainly try what he suggests when I next stand looking down on the engine and wondering why I did this to myself.

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48 minutes ago, MtB said:

I think diesel would have to be really old to fail to ignite under normal compression in a diesel engine.

 

Really old diesel will not be a problem - it started going down-hill from about 4 or 5 years ago when it started to get 'watered down' with carrot juice, etc.

The recommended life for 'modern diesel' is now 6-12 months. After 28 days it starts to degrade. (note threat No3)

 

Studies have determined within 28 days of storage diesel fuel #2 begins to become contaminated and start to degrade. Diesel fuel can only be stored from 6 to 12 months on average — sometimes longer under the best conditions. Generally, to prolong the life of the quality of stored diesel fuel, it should be:

  • Kept cool at around 70 degrees Fahrenheit;
  • Treated with biocides and stabilizers
  • Maintained properly in accordance with NFPA 110

NFPA 110 refers to diesel “Storage Life,” 1.5 to 2 years. The Standard recommends that, “Tanks should be sized so that the fuel is consumed within the storage life, or provision should be made to replace stale fuel with fresh fuel,” NFPA 110, A-5-9

When the above conditions are not met or are not met adequately, three main threats to the quality of the diesel may arise:

  1. Hydrolysis;
  2. Microbial growth; and
  3. Oxidation.

The presence of these three factors can shorten the lifespan of the diesel, and as such, you can expect the quality to degrade quickly after 6 months. 

 

 

  1. Threat From Hydrolysis

    When diesel is exposed to water, it causes a hydrolysis reaction, meaning the diesel breaks down due to exposure to water. When condensation accumulates, drops of water can drip from the roof of the storage tank onto the diesel. The exposure to water creates a chemical reaction that — as mentioned — breaks down the diesel and makes it susceptible to the growth of microbes (bacteria and fungus).

  2. Threat From Microbial Growth

    Microbial growth, as mentioned, is often the product of conditions created by water interfacing with diesel fuel: microbes require water to grow. On a performance level, it is problematic because microbes produce acids that degrade diesel fuel, clog tank filters due to biomass formations, restrict the flow of fluid, corrode the tanks, and damage engines. On a regulatory level, the increase in microbe growth today is the unfortunate result of an Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) mandate requiring less sulfur in diesel to reduce pollutants in the air, but less sulfur in diesel makes the fuel less stable and prone to microbial growth.

  3. Threat From Oxidation

    Oxidation is a chemical reaction that occurs when diesel fuel is introduced to oxygen, and this happens as soon as diesel fuel leaves the refinery. Oxidation reacts with compounds in the diesel to create high acid values and to develop unwanted gum, sludge, and sediment. The higher acid value works to corrode the tank while the production of gum and sediment work to clog filters.

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15 minutes ago, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

Makes you wonder what benefits there are in diluting diesel with cabbage water, after all, nature (cows) produces more green house gases in one day than all the internal combustion engines ever built.

 

 


 

Same as watering down the beer, empty the chip pan into the tank instead of paying 'top price' for diesel.

 

Isn't 'diesel' now about 90% diesel and 10% chip fat / carrot jooce etc ?

(checked Apparently the 2019 regulations allowed 8%  non-diesel in disesel.)

 

 

And then there is DIY :

How much vegetable oil should you use?

These are not my calculations, cos I haven't tried it properly yet - BUT the enthusiasts writing on the internet say you should start with a light blend, and increase each time you refill. That way, if you notice your car sputtering, you know you've hit the limit and should use less next time,

They claim that a 10% vegetable oil blend will work for everyone there should be no noticeable difference in how your car drives.

At 25% vegetable oil in 75% diesel, your exhaust stops smelling like a taxi and starts smelling like a doughnut fryer.

33% one part vegetable to two parts regular diesel - is the heaviest sensible mix for the British winter (the oil gets even thicker in colder weather), but half and half -they say- is a good running blend for the rest of the year. Half-and-half is where the cost savings really show themselves.

 

BBC - Lancashire - People - Psst! Want a cheaper fill-up?

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25 minutes ago, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

Makes you wonder what benefits there are in diluting diesel with cabbage water, after all, nature (cows) produces more green house gases in one day than all the internal combustion engines ever built.

 

 

That sounds pretty unlikely to me. Did that come from a reliable source?!

 

 

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