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Southam to Leeds, a viable journey?


Mark R

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For a journey least likely to be affected by water shortages, head East. Either Grand Union, Coventry, right at Fradley and join the Trent at Shardlow, or carry on at Braunston, left at Norton, Leicester line, River Soar and then Trent...both routes leaving at Keadby.

 

The North has seen precious little rain,  with June's forecast for this to continue, so the L&L, Huddersfield and Rochdale, along with the Peak Forest/Macc may well see restrictions soon.

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20 minutes ago, matty40s said:

For a journey least likely to be affected by water shortages, head East. Either Grand Union, Coventry, right at Fradley and join the Trent at Shardlow, or carry on at Braunston, left at Norton, Leicester line, River Soar and then Trent...both routes leaving at Keadby.

 

The North has seen precious little rain,  with June's forecast for this to continue, so the L&L, Huddersfield and Rochdale, along with the Peak Forest/Macc may well see restrictions soon.

 

Thanks Matt, that was partly my concern as it is rather dry up here at the moment. Would you be able to estimate the time taken for that journey?

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Straight up the Leicester line via the Trent would be the shortest route. More likely to be delayed by a brief flood on the Soar than water shortages going that way. Timing also depends on your tolerance for long days which are definitely possible in most parts (Trent tide times and restricted hours at Foxton/Watford flights might limit them in others) but should be comfortably do-able in two weeks

 

The Trent is big for a narrowboat, but it's safe enough if your engine is reliable, you can follow instructions and you have a suitable anchor fitted

Edited by enigmatic
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2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Straight up the Leicester line via the Trent would be the shortest route. More likely to be delayed by a brief flood on the Soar than water shortages going that way. Timing also depends on your tolerance for long days which are definitely possible in most parts (Trent tide times and restricted hours at Foxton/Watford flights might limit them in others) but should be comfortably do-able in two weeks

 

The Trent is big for a narrowboat, but it's safe enough if your engine is reliable, you can follow instructions and you have a suitable anchor fitted

Additionally, ABP also require VHF to be carried which entails a licence for  the equipment and appropriate certification for the  operator,  and a continuous radio  watch maintained. 

 

Howard

Edited by howardang
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3 minutes ago, howardang said:

Additionally, ABP also require VHF to be carried which entails a licence for  the equipment and appropriate certification for the  operator,  and a continuous radio  watch maintained. 

 

Howard

 

Really? On the Trent? I thought it was advisory, like on the Ribble link, but a mobile phone is perfectly acceptable as an alternative...

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7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Really? On the Trent? I thought it was advisory, like on the Ribble link, but a mobile phone is perfectly acceptable as an alternative...

It is mandatory below Gainsborough. Similarly on ABP controlled water on the Yorkshire Ouse  from Trent Falls to upstream of Goole.

 

Howard

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18 minutes ago, howardang said:

It is mandatory below Gainsborough. Similarly on ABP controlled water on the Yorkshire Ouse  from Trent Falls to upstream of Goole.

 

Howard

 

For boats longer than 65', from what I can find -- but I may well be wrong... 😉

 

(indeed, according to the IWA this applies to all powered vessels regardless of length...)

 

https://waterways.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/vhf_guidance.pdf

Edited by IanD
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19 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

For boats longer than 65', from what I can find -- but I may well be wrong... 😉

 

(indeed, according to the IWA this applies to all powered vessels regardless of length...)

 

https://waterways.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/vhf_guidance.pdf

It’s not worth arguing about it but as far as I remember from when I was an ABP Dockmaster it applies to all vessels regardless of length and I am pretty certain that it is covered is covered by the ABP Annual notice to mariners. Additionally, it is just plain common sense to carry VHF and it is a foolish person who thinks otherwise. The Humber/Trent/Lower Ouse is somewhere that requires more than a degree of care and an awareness of shipping movements and current and forecast weather condition which VHF can provide at a small cost. 

 
Howard

 

 

32 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

But in reality, many people make the trip without. Don't ask me how I know?! Trent charts more useful than VHF unless you plan on transiting lots of rivers anyway...

How does a Trent Chart advise you of current traffic movements?


It is not good advice to imply that many people make the trip without the proper equipment and is certainly not something to boast about.

 

Howard

 

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26 minutes ago, howardang said:

How does a Trent Chart advise you of current traffic movements?


It is not good advice to imply that many people make the trip without the proper equipment and is certainly not something to boast about.

 

Howard

 

The point was that the charts advise you of a number of fixed hazards which might be non-obvious throughout the entire length of the tidal journey and also give you a reasonable idea about journey times to indicate whether you're on course to arrive as planned, which might be considered more essential than real time voice updates on commercial vessel movements of which only the short stretch near Keadby before you leave it is a concern, where the river is wide and any commercial traffic planned in advance and extremely visible.

 

Trentlink's unofficial guidance to boaters suggests that if you're going to Keadby and no further (and you wouldn't go any further taking a narrowboat to Leeds) you should be able to get vessel movements above Keadby bridge by calling Humber VTS.  https://trentlink.wordpress.com/comms/. The Keadby lockies, who are actually good, will also advise.

Edited by enigmatic
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26 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 

The point was that the charts advise you of a number of fixed hazards which might be non-obvious throughout the entire length of the tidal journey and also give you a reasonable idea about journey times to indicate whether you're on course to arrive as planned, which might be considered more essential than real time voice updates on commercial vessel movements of which only the short stretch near Keadby before you leave it is a concern, where the river is wide and any commercial traffic planned in advance and extremely visible.

 

Trentlink's unofficial guidance to boaters suggests that if you're going to Keadby and no further (and you wouldn't go any further taking a narrowboat to Leeds) you should be able to get vessel movements above Keadby bridge by calling Humber VTS.  https://trentlink.wordpress.com/comms/. The Keadby lockies, who are actually good, will also advise.

I think you are speaking about something else. We were discussing the carriage of VHF radio, not the various charts available. Of course you should carry up to date charts of the river. VTS broadcast vessel movents regularly as part of the VTS coverage and listening to them is one of the many reasons why you must carry VHF.

 

Howard
 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

For boats longer than 65', from what I can find -- but I may well be wrong... 😉

 

(indeed, according to the IWA this applies to all powered vessels regardless of length...)

 

https://waterways.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/vhf_guidance.pdf

 

4 hours ago, matty40s said:

That stipulation is the Port of London authority on the tidal Thames out of Limehouse.

45ft below Teddington for most craft although narrow boats are exempt between Teddington and Brentford

https://www.pla.co.uk/New-VHF-requirements-on-tidal-Thames

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4 hours ago, enigmatic said:

 

The point was that the charts advise you of a number of fixed hazards which might be non-obvious throughout the entire length of the tidal journey and also give you a reasonable idea about journey times to indicate whether you're on course to arrive as planned, which might be considered more essential than real time voice updates on commercial vessel movements of which only the short stretch near Keadby before you leave it is a concern, where the river is wide and any commercial traffic planned in advance and extremely visible.

 

Trentlink's unofficial guidance to boaters suggests that if you're going to Keadby and no further (and you wouldn't go any further taking a narrowboat to Leeds) you should be able to get vessel movements above Keadby bridge by calling Humber VTS.  https://trentlink.wordpress.com/comms/. The Keadby lockies, who are actually good, will also advise.


Thank you, I was just about to plug that bit of guidance....  

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All I would add is that having done the trip in reverse I would have hated doing it downstream to Keadby as a first major river trip. The river is very wide and other boats do not hang about, throwing up quite a swell. I think the wind would whip up a fair old chop on the Gainsborough to Keadby stretch as well. I don't know the OPs experience on very large rivers and tidal waters, but it would be prudent to prepare to be disquieted as you approach Gainsborough. It may well feel scary.

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6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

All I would add is that having done the trip in reverse I would have hated doing it downstream to Keadby as a first major river trip. The river is very wide and other boats do not hang about, throwing up quite a swell. I think the wind would whip up a fair old chop on the Gainsborough to Keadby stretch as well. I don't know the OPs experience on very large rivers and tidal waters, but it would be prudent to prepare to be disquieted as you approach Gainsborough. It may well feel scary.

Wow. You did in in reverse. That's proper brave. It's bad enough going forwards. 

 

Ok ok, I'm going. 

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41 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 I think the wind would whip up a fair old chop on the Gainsborough to Keadby stretch as well. I don't know the OPs experience on very large rivers and tidal waters, but it would be prudent to prepare to be disquieted as you approach Gainsborough. It may well feel scary.

All in a days work...although I think Mykaskin has a scarier one carrying on to Hull on Victoria.

 

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Just now, matty40s said:

All in a days work...although I think Mykaskin has a scarier one carrying on to Hull on Victoria.

 

 

I should start charging you 'appearence money'....

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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:


Thank you, I was just about to plug that bit of guidance....  

that is true but VTS have many responsibilities controlling traffic on the estuary which keep them busy which is why they broadcast vessel movements on the radio. VTS would prefer leisure boaters to get their movement information in that way - one of the many reasons for the need to monitor the radio.

 

Howard

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10 minutes ago, howardang said:

that is true but VTS have many responsibilities controlling traffic on the estuary which keep them busy which is why they broadcast vessel movements on the radio. VTS would prefer leisure boaters to get their movement information in that way - one of the many reasons for the need to monitor the radio.

 

Howard


I agree.  Sadly there is rather less traffic now, on our 2021 trip down to Hull we didn't see a single ship moving, nor hear a single bit of traffic info on the radio.

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6 hours ago, enigmatic said:

 

The point was that the charts advise you of a number of fixed hazards which might be non-obvious throughout the entire length of the tidal journey and also give you a reasonable idea about journey times to indicate whether you're on course to arrive as planned, which might be considered more essential than real time voice updates on commercial vessel movements of which only the short stretch near Keadby before you leave it is a concern, where the river is wide and any commercial traffic planned in advance and extremely visible.

 

Trentlink's unofficial guidance to boaters suggests that if you're going to Keadby and no further (and you wouldn't go any further taking a narrowboat to Leeds) you should be able to get vessel movements above Keadby bridge by calling Humber VTS.  https://trentlink.wordpress.com/comms/. The Keadby lockies, who are actually good, will also advise.

Thank you for that information, and I can assure you that I am  fully aware of the information provided on charts having been a professional seafarer all my working life. The point I was making was that an item of information obviously not available on charts is vessel movement information and for reasons I mention in another post that information is broadcast regularly on VTS broadcasts which is why you are requested to monitor the appropriate channel to hear these broadcasts. This would avoid the need for phone calls to VTS so that they can get on with controlling ship movements in their area, although they are always there if you have an urgent need for their services.

 

Howard

 

 

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