A polite plea to dawdlers.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Yes  this is the normal / usual / preferred  procedure.

Although , as you  say ''normally''.  Overtaking or passing  on the wrong side is not prohibited  if communicated .

 

Indeed, and I've done that with boats coming the other way when it makes sense -- for example, if one is entering or leaving a lock next to a bend. The interesting bit is how to signal that, because few boaters seem to be aware of the extremely simple sound signal of one hoot=right, two hoots=left, so handwaving is needed which can be misinterpreted... 😞

[Paul C]

20 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Indeed, and I've done that with boats coming the other way when it makes sense -- for example, if one is entering or leaving a lock next to a bend. The interesting bit is how to signal that, because few boaters seem to be aware of the extremely simple sound signal of one hoot=right, two hoots=left, so handwaving is needed which can be misinterpreted... 😞

 

Hmmmm, interesting (almost). If its one boat out of a lock, next one in, normally its possible to actually talk to them and sometimes its even possible to reach an agreement on "what happens next"! (Often, sadly, it goes weird). I normally ask the opposing boat to get all their crew on if they're ascending (saves them stopping again), and if they're descending then will try to make it clear I want to pass non-towpath-side (to let them come in towpath side for the pickup).

 

If we're the ones leaving the lock, I'll normally make sure to ask "can we get on?" (before its too late to, if descending).

[GUMPY]

28 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Indeed, and I've done that with boats coming the other way when it makes sense -- for example, if one is entering or leaving a lock next to a bend. The interesting bit is how to signal that, because few boaters seem to be aware of the extremely simple sound signal of one hoot=right, two hoots=left, so handwaving is needed which can be misinterpreted... 😞

 

Simple answer to the signal is raise a Blue Flag or show a Blue Board

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_sign

Edited May 30, 2023 by GUMPY

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

 

Simple answer to the signal is raise a Blue Flag or show a Blue Board

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_sign

 

I bet even fewer boaters on the canals know this than the sound signals -- and the number of boats who have said blue board or flag is smaller still. Probably zero... 😉

Edited May 30, 2023 by IanD

[Iain_S]

46 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well not exactly. The colregs says you must have the agreement of the boat to be passed, the bylaw says the overtaken boat must steer to the right regardless (no agreement needed). Anyway my original point with WV stands, the statement that an overtaking boat has to keep clear of the overtaken boat does not apply on BW inland waterways.

I'd have thought that was covered by Byelaw 18(2).

In any case, Colregs apply unless overridden by local legislation. If the Byelaws are silent on the subject, then Colregs 13(a) applies

[haggis]

6 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

 

If we're the ones leaving the lock, I'll normally make sure to ask "can we get on?" (before its too late to, if descending).

Fine if you ask ! At Derwent Mouth Lock many years ago I had wandered up to the lock as there were two boats going down ahead. To my amazement, both ( male ) skippers told their ( female ) lock workers to get back on board as soon as the boats started descending leaving muggins to open both bottom gates ( yes, they needed two) , wind down the paddles and close up after they had left. 

I don't think I would ever have the brass neck to do that and even when I am told to get back on board I make sure I show my appreciation. 

 

[Rob-M]

12 minutes ago, haggis said:

Fine if you ask ! At Derwent Mouth Lock many years ago I had wandered up to the lock as there were two boats going down ahead. To my amazement, both ( male ) skippers told their ( female ) lock workers to get back on board as soon as the boats started descending leaving muggins to open both bottom gates ( yes, they needed two) , wind down the paddles and close up after they had left. 

I don't think I would ever have the brass neck to do that and even when I am told to get back on board I make sure I show my appreciation. 

 

I would have just wandered off and left them sat in the lock.

[haggis]

24 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I would have just wandered off and left them sat in the lock.

I would probably do that now but then I was just so gobsmacked at encountering such a selfish  attitude that I was speechless 

[GUMPY]

6 minutes ago, haggis said:

I would probably do that now but then I was just so gobsmacked at encountering such a selfish  attitude that I was speechless 

Surely not 😀

[sigsegv]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Yes  this is the normal / usual / preferred  procedure.

Although , as you  say ''normally''.  Overtaking or passing  on the wrong side is not prohibited  if communicated .

cheers, this answers my question earlier in the thread

[Wanderer Vagabond]

4 hours ago, Midnight said:

I've never had a problem overtaking or being overtaken on the Trent. Did have a cruiser skipper shake his fist as he passed by last year. Him on the flood and us on the ebb on a tricky corner but he could have waited as he was coming against the flow and anyway there was enough channel to share otherwise he would have been on the bottom. 

I don't know if it is me, but I'm baffled by this one. Was the boat overtaking you? if so how was he 'on the flood' and you were 'on the ebb', surely if you were both going the same way you were both on the same tidal state. Even if you were going in opposite directions you would still have been on the same tidal state since it is either ebbing, flooding or slack water, I don't think it can do both at the same time.

 

If the other boat was 'coming against the flow' the onus is on him to avoid you if you were going with the flow.

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Iain_S said:

I'd have thought that was covered by Byelaw 18(2).

In any case, Colregs apply unless overridden by local legislation. If the Byelaws are silent on the subject, then Colregs 13(a) applies

I disagree. Colregs rule 1 states “These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.”

 

So, apart from such things as the Manchester ship canal, and big rivers, the colregs specifically do not apply to “ordinary” canals frequented by narrowboats.

[Momac]

4 hours ago, Midnight said:

. Him on the flood and us on the ebb 

That can't happen

The tide is flooding  or its  ebbing or its slack

The tide can't be flooding and ebbing for two boats within  the same vicinity.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by MartynG

[Midnight]

19 minutes ago, MartynG said:

That can't happen

The tide is flooding  or its  ebbing or its slack

The tide can't be flooding and ebbing for two boats within  the same vicinity.

 

Doh! Sorry

Yes senior moment - us going down on the ebb him pushing against it. His problem as it was a left turn. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

5 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

Are you using this specific situation and extrapolating it more widely to all of your boating everywhere, when you say "my concern will be to remain in the navigation channel."?

 

I am not familiar with that stretch of the Trent but I didn't realise the navigation channel was <14' wide, or thereabouts.....once again, I will ask the simple question, if you met a boat in the opposite direction here, would you not be able to pass either?

I think we've already covered that, IF there was a boat coming from the opposite direction, the onus will be on him/her to avoid me so if anyone has to go into jeopardy off the navigation line it is going to be them.

 

This talk of a 'boat coming in the opposite direction', what sensible boater wants to flog into the tide (either on the flood or the ebb) by choice? Not only are you going to use twice as much fuel to get to your destination, but you are going to have to give priority to all boats coming towards you. There are occasions when you have to flog against the tide, the Ribble Link being one, but you aren't going to meet anyone in a narrow channel doing that one.

 

Going from Torksey to Cromwell on the flooding tide, you only have 2 hours (if I remember right) before the tide turns so the last hour (takes me about 3 hours in my narrowboat) will be against an ebbing tide, but the big difference is that you are going to be on the top of the tide. Going off the navigation line is going to be less of an issue at the top of the tide compared to 3 - 4 hours into an ebbing tide.  

59 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Doh! Sorry

Yes senior moment - us going down on the ebb him pushing against it. His problem as it was a left turn. 

So the other guy, who was shouting at you, was actually in the wrong, as you correctly say it was his problem to avoid you. Sounds like distraction tactics by him to me

5 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

 The hull of an 8 ton GRP cruiser is not the deepest part of the boat.

 

It is the drive gear that is deeper (and more expensive when it hits the bottom of the river)

Not being particularly au fait with the draughts of cruisers, what would be the normal draught of an 8 ton GRP Cruiser? Obviously if they decide to go up 'on the plane' then their draught then will become a whole lot deeper, but at normal speed what would it be?

[Momac]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 

 

Going from Torksey to Cromwell on the flooding tide, you only have 2 hours (if I remember right) before the tide turns so the last hour (takes me about 3 hours in my narrowboat) will be against an ebbing tide, but the big difference is that you are going to be on the top of the tide. Going off the navigation line is going to be less of an issue at the top of the tide compared to 3 - 4 hours into an ebbing tide.  

 

HW Cromwell is HW Hull +5hrs

HW Torksey is HW Hull + 3hrs 15min

The flood at Torksey  runs in for 2 hrs

In a narrowboat if you leave Torksey as  soon as the flood arrives and you take 3hrs 45mins to travel to Cromwell you will arrive at HW Cromwell.

On neaps and when there is loads of fresh on the tide never really makes it to Cromwell

 

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Just now, MartynG said:

 

HW Cromwell is HW Hull +5hrs

HW Torksey is HW Hull + 3hrs 15min

The flood at Torksey  runs in for 2 hrs

In a narrowboat if you leave Torksey as  soon as the flood arrives and you take 3hrs 45mins to travel to Cromwell you will arrive at HW Cromwell.

On neaps and when there is loads of fresh on the tide never really makes it to Cromwell

 

 

 

Didn't work out that way when we did it, we ran out of tide before we got to Cromwell, it wasn't like flogging against the Douglas and Ribble on the Ribble link, but we weren't going very fast for the final hour. I think the fact that we'd had to come through Torksey lock first because the moorings below were full probably slowed us down.

 

Last year, with the weather we had, there certainly wasn't loads of fresh and, I'm guessing now, but I don't think this year is going to be much different given the current lack of rain.

[Momac]

3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Didn't work out that way when we did it, we ran out of tide before we got to Cromwell, it wasn't like flogging against the Douglas and Ribble on the Ribble link, but we weren't going very fast for the final hour. I think the fact that we'd had to come through Torksey lock first because the moorings below were full probably slowed us down.

 

Last year, with the weather we had, there certainly wasn't loads of fresh and, I'm guessing now, but I don't think this year is going to be much different given the current lack of rain.

if you go on springs it will be more likely to carry you further  up to Cromwell although the tide will always reduce in strength the further up you go.

Yes we  seem to be in drought already and no rain forecast in the next week while just over a week ago (19th to 21st May) there was plenty of fresh on .

 

32 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 

Not being particularly au fait with the draughts of cruisers, what would be the normal draught of an 8 ton GRP Cruiser? 

3ft to 4ft

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think we've already covered that, IF there was a boat coming from the opposite direction, the onus will be on him/her to avoid me so if anyone has to go into jeopardy off the navigation line it is going to be them.

 

This talk of a 'boat coming in the opposite direction', what sensible boater wants to flog into the tide (either on the flood or the ebb) by choice? Not only are you going to use twice as much fuel to get to your destination, but you are going to have to give priority to all boats coming towards you. There are occasions when you have to flog against the tide, the Ribble Link being one, but you aren't going to meet anyone in a narrow channel doing that one.

 

Going from Torksey to Cromwell on the flooding tide, you only have 2 hours (if I remember right) before the tide turns so the last hour (takes me about 3 hours in my narrowboat) will be against an ebbing tide, but the big difference is that you are going to be on the top of the tide. Going off the navigation line is going to be less of an issue at the top of the tide compared to 3 - 4 hours into an ebbing tide.  

So the other guy, who was shouting at you, was actually in the wrong, as you correctly say it was his problem to avoid you. Sounds like distraction tactics by him to me

Not being particularly au fait with the draughts of cruisers, what would be the normal draught of an 8 ton GRP Cruiser? Obviously if they decide to go up 'on the plane' then their draught then will become a whole lot deeper, but at normal speed what would it be?

Around 3ft, maybe a bit more for a bigger boat.

 

On the plane the draught is shallower as most of the boat and drive is out of the water. 

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think we've already covered that, IF there was a boat coming from the opposite direction, the onus will be on him/her to avoid me so if anyone has to go into jeopardy off the navigation line it is going to be them.

Not even tidal and this happens.

14 boats passed us in Blisworth tunnel yesterday,(we were the only one Northbound)... no problem except a private boat about 8th, who decided that they didnt want to get wet in the waterfall and steered into the centre to avoid,  big bang and I swore.

Their dog on the back slide had the cheek to bark at me, so I told it to blame its owner not me. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

11 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Around 3ft, maybe a bit more for a bigger boat.

 

On the plane the draught is shallower as most of the boat and drive is out of the water. 

Odd 'cos I would have thought if you raise the bow (going onto the plane) the stern would drop, or have you got a hydrofoil?

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Odd 'cos I would have thought if you raise the bow (going onto the plane) the stern would drop, or have you got a hydrofoil?

 

You'd have thought quite wrong then.

 

Rach is probably not the best woman for you to try mansplaining powerboat handling to.  She has quite a lot of experience handling a fast boat.

 

Sometimes in unwise locations, but we won't hold that against her. 😁

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You'd have thought quite wrong then.

 

Rach is probably not the best woman for you to try mansplaining powerboat handling to.  She has quite a lot of experience handling a fast boat.

 

Sometimes in unwise locations, but we won't hold that against her. 😁

 

 

Not 'mansplaining' or even criticising (what do I know about cruisers?) but it just seemed logical that if you lift one end of the boat up, the other end of the boat would go down. Alternatively, is it genuinely a hydrofoil effect?

Edited May 30, 2023 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Not being particularly au fait with the draughts of cruisers, what would be the normal draught of an 8 ton GRP Cruiser? Obviously if they decide to go up 'on the plane' then their draught then will become a whole lot deeper, but at normal speed what would it be?

 

Clearly.

 

If you think a boat 'on the plane' has a greater draft.

 

The clue is in the description.

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

Clearly.

 

If you think a boat 'on the plane' has a greater draft.

 

The clue is in the description.

 

So the way to get it through the shallows on the Trent is to get it up on the plane then