A polite plea to dawdlers.

[jonathanA]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I don’t have a crystal ball, apparently my projects tend toward late delivery.

at work I keep teasing the project manager types by assuring them that the sooner I help their project get behind the sooner they'll be able to work on getting it back on schedule....

 

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I don’t have a crystal ball, apparently my projects tend toward late delivery.

 

I'm sure the boatyard would have been happy about me delivering the boat back to them late, so long as I explained about dawdler-twit... 😉

 

My point is that the whole incident was completely unnecessary, he wasn't in a hurry so it would have been absolutely no skin off his nose to pull over and slow down for a minute or so to let me pass -- and I had asked nicely, and explained why I wanted to do this. His response was "it's not a Grand Prix", and to not just refuse to let me pass but deliberately add extra delay when he was mooring up "at home". Just plain selfish bloody-mindedness... 😞

[Bee]

Our boat gets along quite well at most engine speeds but at tickover and just above it doesn't run very smoothly, it's all a bit lumpy so sometimes we start to catch someone up, doesn't happen often as the canals in Europe tend to be quieter and often as not there's a great big ship doing 10 kph or more steaming past us but it really is a pain as overtaking in narrow and shallow canals involves the sort of physics that means you just can't get past slow boats without using all the power you can muster.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

And there are the boaters who slow right down whenever they come to a bridge. The peak of this was a hireboat on the Llangollen who stopped completely while the bloke at the sharp end manoevred the pointy bit into the gap with the bargepole. They didn't seem to be drunk or stoned, either.

That is because they dont fit hire Narrowboats with bow thrusters 😄

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is because they dont fit hire Narrowboats with bow thrusters 😄

Because if they did some people would use them for steering instead of the tiller... 😉

[Hudds Lad]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is because they dont fit hire Narrowboats with bow thrusters 😄

I'm pretty sure there are some ABC boats with them?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

7 hours ago, nicknorman said:

The canals are primarily a transport system. I am not advocating speeding and eg creating a breaking wave, but equally there is no virtue in going as slow as possible and causing frustration to people behind who just want to go at a normal speed. You say there is not much difference between 2mph and 4 mph but in fact there is a huge difference. A journey that would take 1 day at 4 mph, will take 2 days at 2mph and some people have busy lives that don’t allow for an extra day to be taken.

 

If you want to go at 2mph then fine, but don’t force everyone else to do it.

It may have once been primarily a transport system, it is now primarily a leisure system. The difference between 2mph and 4mph is minimal since you can rush as much as you want, as I've heard boaters saying,"We have to get around the Leicester Ring"(really?) only to go around the next corner and find either a tree down across the canal which may well hold you up for a couple of days or a lock gate that some muppet has dislodged that may also hold you up for a couple of days. In my hire boating days I always had a 'bail out' point where if I hadn't reached there by halfway through the week (for whatever reason) I'd turn around and go back the way I'd come. I always reference the comment of an old friend that I used to go salt water sailing with, "We don't do timetables, we just do destinations". If your life is dependent upon tight schedules it's possible that narrowboating isn't really for you since there are a whole host of things that can bugger up any schedule, not simply slow boaters.

[Captain Pegg]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

Because if they did some people would use them for steering instead of the tiller... 😉

 

For a bit of evening entertainment I read the owners manual of a boat I moved recently and the section on bow thrusters said "they are only effective when moving in forward gear". I think I used them twice in 44 hours of cruising and neither time was I moving forward.

 

The general tone of the piece on bow thrusters was "please try not to use them, they aren't up to much".

 

The whole thing was a bit odd.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

It may have once been primarily a transport system, it is now primarily a leisure system. The difference between 2mph and 4mph is minimal since you can rush as much as you want, as I've heard boaters saying,"We have to get around the Leicester Ring"(really?) only to go around the next corner and find either a tree down across the canal which may well hold you up for a couple of days or a lock gate that some muppet has dislodged that may also hold you up for a couple of days. In my hire boating days I always had a 'bail out' point where if I hadn't reached there by halfway through the week (for whatever reason) I'd turn around and go back the way I'd come. I always reference the comment of an old friend that I used to go salt water sailing with, "We don't do timetables, we just do destinations". If your life is dependent upon tight schedules it's possible that narrowboating isn't really for you since there are a whole host of things that can bugger up any schedule, not simply slow boaters.

 

So what happens if having turned back you then encounter another blockage or stoppage?

 

That is no guarantee that you still might need to press on when going back.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by M_JG

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

It may have once been primarily a transport system, it is now primarily a leisure system. The difference between 2mph and 4mph is minimal since you can rush as much as you want, as I've heard boaters saying,"We have to get around the Leicester Ring"(really?) only to go around the next corner and find either a tree down across the canal which may well hold you up for a couple of days or a lock gate that some muppet has dislodged that may also hold you up for a couple of days. In my hire boating days I always had a 'bail out' point where if I hadn't reached there by halfway through the week (for whatever reason) I'd turn around and go back the way I'd come. I always reference the comment of an old friend that I used to go salt water sailing with, "We don't do timetables, we just do destinations". If your life is dependent upon tight schedules it's possible that narrowboating isn't really for you since there are a whole host of things that can bugger up any schedule, not simply slow boaters.

All true -- but there are still times when this isn't the case, like when you're close to the boatyard on the final afternoon of a two-week holiday and you get stuck behind dawdler-twit... 😉

 

Regardless of *why* the boat behind (speed merchant?) wants to go faster than the boat in front (dawdler?), if there's space and water to let them pass there's no reason not to do so, apart from pig-headedness... 😞

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

It may have once been primarily a transport system, it is now primarily a leisure system. The difference between 2mph and 4mph is minimal since you can rush as much as you want, as I've heard boaters saying,"We have to get around the Leicester Ring"(really?) only to go around the next corner and find either a tree down across the canal which may well hold you up for a couple of days or a lock gate that some muppet has dislodged that may also hold you up for a couple of days. In my hire boating days I always had a 'bail out' point where if I hadn't reached there by halfway through the week (for whatever reason) I'd turn around and go back the way I'd come. I always reference the comment of an old friend that I used to go salt water sailing with, "We don't do timetables, we just do destinations". If your life is dependent upon tight schedules it's possible that narrowboating isn't really for you since there are a whole host of things that can bugger up any schedule, not simply slow boaters.

 

It is not about rushing, it is about going along at a normal pace and not seeing virtue in going as slow as possible and holding up people as much as possible. Yes there can of course be unforseen events such as trees down and other stoppages, but these are not within the power of boaters. Holding people up unnecessarily, and causing frustration, is within the power of other boaters and I just think it is a shame that some people relish wielding that power to control how other people conduct themselves. As I said, I don't want to force other people to go faster than they want, I just don't want them to force me to go slower when they could let me pass.

As to your final sentence, well thank you for your opinion on whether or not the canals are suitable for me. That is a phenomenal display of arrogance and it is easy to see why you think it quite OK to force other people to go along at your pace.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

So what happens if having turned back you then encounter another blockage or stoppage?

 

That is no gurantee that you might need to press on when going back.

Which rather brings us back to the point of not getting particularly excited by getting caught behind a slow boat, because there are a whole host of other things that may well stop you, from sudden flooding (River Soar) to engine breakdown. As far as the Soar Flooding went, we were just told by the hire company to moor where we were and they'd ship the following week's hirers to us, and then take us back to the boatyard from there.

[IanD]

33 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

For a bit of evening entertainment I read the owners manual of a boat I moved recently and the section on bow thrusters said "they are only effective when moving in forward gear". I think I used them twice in 44 hours of cruising and neither time was I moving forward.

 

The general tone of the piece on bow thrusters was "please try not to use them, they aren't up to much".

 

The whole thing was a bit odd.

 

They take a lot of power and flatten batteries and (mostly) overheat quite quickly, and are often undersized and ineffective, so in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use them they're a bit of a liability.

 

There are exceptions to this (like the 48V Vetus Pro BT) but these are expensive and never fitted to hire boats -- in fact they're pretty rare on narrowboats full stop.

Edited May 24, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

For a bit of evening entertainment I read the owners manual of a boat I moved recently and the section on bow thrusters said "they are only effective when moving in forward gear". I think I used them twice in 44 hours of cruising and neither time was I moving forward.

 

I probably do that in 440 hours unless I am playing 

[nicknorman]

Anyway, I will just mention that whilst we seemed to go through a phase of getting stuck behind ludicrously slow boaters a few years ago, recently it hasn't been much of a problem. People do generally either cruise at a reasonable speed or allow others to pass, although sometimes we have to ask. There are only a tiny minority of selfish people who see no problem in forcing others to go at their pace, although they do seem to be congregating on here!

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I probably do that in 440 hours unless I am playing 

We haven't done it once in 4000 hrs. Could be because we don't have one!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Which rather brings us back to the point of not getting particularly excited by getting caught behind a slow boat, because there are a whole host of other things that may well stop you, from sudden flooding (River Soar) to engine breakdown. As far as the Soar Flooding went, we were just told by the hire company to moor where we were and they'd ship the following week's hirers to us, and then take us back to the boatyard from there.

 

I cant understand why somebody doesnt wish to make 'reasonable' progress and in doing so force somebody else to go at their pace. Not a problem on places like the A&C where there is ample opportunity to pass but on the usual canals its just imposing you wishes on somebody else.

 

It frankly smacks of arrogance.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

 

It is not about rushing, it is about going along at a normal pace and not seeing virtue in going as slow as possible and holding up people as much as possible. Yes there can of course be unforseen events such as trees down and other stoppages, but these are not within the power of boaters. Holding people up unnecessarily, and causing frustration, is within the power of other boaters and I just think it is a shame that some people relish wielding that power to control how other people conduct themselves. As I said, I don't want to force other people to go faster than they want, I just don't want them to force me to go slower when they could let me pass.

As to your final sentence, well thank you for your opinion on whether or not the canals are suitable for me. That is a phenomenal display of arrogance and it is easy to see why you think it quite OK to force other people to go along at your pace.

I think that you will find that nowhere have I said anything about forcing other people to 'go at my pace', in fact I have clearly stated in my first post,".....To be honest, if I'm caught up by another boat I'm quite content to pull over and let them pass....."  but you obviously missed that. The fact is that on most narrow canals, overtaking is simply a PITA because of the underwater profile of the canal (always shallower at the sides). Overtaking on wide canals and rivers, no real problem, but narrow canals not really. So you are following someone down the Rushall canal (if it's open at the moment), or the Chesterfield, or the Huddersfield and you want them to get out of your way (and inevitably run aground) so that you can overtake, that to me sounds more like arrogance.

12 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

I cant understand why somebody doesnt wish to make 'reasonable' progress and in doing so force somebody else to go at their pace. Not a problem on places like the A&C where there is ample opportunity to pass but on the usual canals its just imposing you wishes on somebody else.

 

It frankly smacks of arrogance.

I'm not sure that carries much weight, coming from a caravanner

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think that you will find that nowhere have I said anything about forcing other people to 'go at my pace', in fact I have clearly stated in my first post,".....To be honest, if I'm caught up by another boat I'm quite content to pull over and let them pass....."  but you obviously missed that. The fact is that on most narrow canals, overtaking is simply a PITA because of the underwater profile of the canal (always shallower at the sides). Overtaking on wide canals and rivers, no real problem, but narrow canals not really. So you are following someone down the Rushall canal (if it's open at the moment), or the Chesterfield, or the Huddersfield and you want them to get out of your way (and inevitably run aground) so that you can overtake, that to me sounds more like arrogance.

I'm not sure that carries much weight, coming from a caravanner

If you're following someone down a canal with not enough room or water to pass, then stay behind.

 

Which is different to the case where there *is* enough space and water, as I keep saying but you keep ignoring... 😉

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I'm not sure that carries much weight, coming from a caravanner

 

Except the difference is I travel at my limit where its safe and always keep an eye on whats going on behind me and pull over to let people pass.

 

Which in reality I find I rarely have to do.

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

I'm trying to remember if we have ever been overtaken on the canals🤔..........no can't remember once.

On the Thames however we have often been overtaken by gin palaces and twice been flagged by the EA for going to fast 😱

 

Blimey, we were overtaken around 25 times in a fortnight last year as our engine was being temperamental. 7 in one day 🤣

It’s terribly easy, slow down ask if they would like to overtake and just go slow on a straight ish area. Aim to go very slowly towards the bank and leave plenty of space. Only once did we get stuck but a quick reverse and we were off again. Didn’t hit anyone. This was all round the four counties ring and N Oxford. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

If you're following someone down a canal with not enough room or water to pass, then stay behind.

 

Which is different to the case where there *is* enough space and water, as I keep saying but you keep ignoring... 😉

The problem is that with most of the narrow canals there isn't going to be enough space and water. To take as an example, when passing oncoming boats I will tend to remain in the centre of the canal until almost the last minute and then turn to starboard (assuming that the other boat is going to do the same) and then as my bow passes the centre point of the oncoming boat, begin to turn towards their stern, so that we are both out of the centre channel for the minimum amount of time, because the centre is obviously where the greatest depth is going to be. With any overtaking manoeuvre you are both going to be out of the centre channel for a considerable time, so it just becomes a slog, even with the best intentions in the world. Perhaps if all canals were dredged to the same depth across their width (as I believe they were when they were built), then it would be less of an issue, but they aren't.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Blimey, we were overtaken around 25 times in a fortnight last year as our engine was being temperamental. 7 in one day 🤣

It’s terribly easy, slow down ask if they would like to overtake and just go slow on a straight ish area. Aim to go very slowly towards the bank and leave plenty of space. Only once did we get stuck but a quick reverse and we were off again. Didn’t hit anyone. This was all round the four counties ring and N Oxford. 

 

And no body would have an issue with that. However if you had slowly pootled along ignoring the boat(s) behind.......

[Captain Pegg]

35 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think that you will find that nowhere have I said anything about forcing other people to 'go at my pace', in fact I have clearly stated in my first post,".....To be honest, if I'm caught up by another boat I'm quite content to pull over and let them pass....."  but you obviously missed that. The fact is that on most narrow canals, overtaking is simply a PITA because of the underwater profile of the canal (always shallower at the sides). Overtaking on wide canals and rivers, no real problem, but narrow canals not really. So you are following someone down the Rushall canal (if it's open at the moment), or the Chesterfield, or the Huddersfield and you want them to get out of your way (and inevitably run aground) so that you can overtake, that to me sounds more like arrogance.

@Tom and Bex on Tatty Lucy passed @Rob-M and myself on Vulpes with no difficulty at all half way along the central section of the Walsall canal during last years BCN Challenge. The Rushall has nothing on the Walsall when it comes to weeds and shallowness.

 

The reason that was possible is because we got ourselves into a position where they could overtake because it was obvious they were much faster than us.

 

 

44 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I probably do that in 440 hours unless I am playing 

I bet you don’t often get out of shape because you stopped in a bridge hole to make a cup of tea?

Edited May 24, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[GUMPY]

I have 5hrs river boating and  6hrs canal boating left to do. Hopefully won't meet any dawdlers or speedsters in that time.

Rothersthorpe could be a problem if we get behind a numpty🤔

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I have 5hrs river boating and  6hrs canal boating left to do. Hopefully won't meet any dawdlers or speedsters in that time.

Rothersthorpe could be a problem if we get behind a numpty🤔

 

Being a nosey so and so Im looking forward to seeing your boat when it gets to RBS..