Anglian waterways trip - questions!

[nicknorman]

We are planning to do the Nene / Middle Levels / Great Ouse (and tributaries) this July/August. Well apart from anything else, if there’s going to be another drought then the water flows down hill and so head for the low ground!

 

I have a few questions for those in the know please:

Is it worth joining the friends of the River Nene?

Is it worth joining the GOBA?

do the water levels in the Nene and Gt Ouse ever become too low for navigation?

Is there likely to be a serious problem with weed?

 

and anything else…?

 

I think we will trade in our CRT licence for a gold one, then we can get the Anglian Pass. I was a bit surprised that a gold licence is only slightly more expensive than the normal canals one.

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Is it worth joining the friends of the River Nene?

Yes

9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Is there likely to be a serious problem with weed?

As long as you stay on the main through route, weed isn't too bad. It won't be a serious problem, that is not to say it will be weed free. The ML weed cutters do get out and about, but there are only a couple of them.

10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

do the water levels in the Nene and Gt Ouse ever become too low for navigation?

No so much too low, but they can have shallow parts, which are usually well documented and sometimes buoyed. Depends on your draught I suppose. We have touched bottom in places, bu never been unable to proceed.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Yes

As long as you stay on the main through route, weed isn't too bad. It won't be a serious problem, that is not to say it will be weed free. The ML weed cutters do get out and about, but there are only a couple of them.

Is it just the ML that is prone to weed? How about the Gt Ouse and tributaries?

[rusty69]

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

and anything else…?

Book the lock into stanground and salters lode a few days in advance. Get the nene key, and Ouse windlass.

14 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Is it just the ML that is prone to weed? How about the Gt Ouse and tributaries?

The Ouse and Nene are less weedy than the ML. Never done the tributaries, so will leave that for someone else to comment on.

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

and anything else…?

Sign up for the strong stream warnings. Though hopefully they should be few and far between until the autumn now.

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

do the water levels in the Nene and Gt Ouse ever become too low for navigation?

It can be shallow sometimes at Upwell/Outwell on the ML.

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

and anything else…?

https://teamup.com/ks42748cc81f4df974

 

ETA. Actually. I'm not sure that closure link is still valid.

Edited May 22, 2023 by rusty69

[nicknorman]

28 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Book the lock into stanground and salters lode a few days in advance. Get the nene key, and Ouse windlass.

The Ouse and Nene are less weedy than the ML. Never done the tributaries, so will leave that for someone else to comment on.

Sign up for the strong stream warnings. Though hopefully they should be few and far between until the autumn now.

It can be shallow sometimes at Upwell/Outwell on the ML.

https://teamup.com/ks42748cc81f4df974

 

ETA. Actually. I'm not sure that closure link is still valid.

 

Thanks. We have a Nene key from last visit about 5 years ago (turned round at Peterborough). Will get Ouse windlass. And a bulldog clip for the Nene electric gate buttons to stop the sore finger syndrome!

[pearley]

Yes, the tributaries are subject to weed. We cruised to Burwell last May, slow going with 30 inch draught but no real trouble.  Juky we cruised up the Wissey, no problems until the end at Stoke Ferry but nothing we hadn't handle before then up to Brandon. That was a bit more problematic as very weedy from the Cut Off Channel upwards although the weed cutters were out.. Badly grounded winding below Brandon Lock but a narrowboat dragged us round. Much easier on return as the cutters had finished.

Haven't been up the Lark for a few years but hope to this year.

No trouble in the main river although we were a bit concerned that levels on the Old West would be too low. In the event need not have worried. Whilst moored at Aldreth a nice looking cruiser passed us. Looking up the spec it have a 36 inch draught so easy for us. The area upstream of Twenty Pence us very shallow and is bouyed in places but we always just creep along just above tickover.

Have paid the extra £112 for the Anglian Pass this year so as to go to Cambridge, more than once we hope to get the value. Hopefully be there for Shakespeare in the Colleges.

A number of the EA visitor moorings are closed, some for minor reasons, so mooring may be a struggle during the school holidays so  yes to FOTRN and GOBA.

Dates and places to avoid are:

Ely Aquafest 2 July

Hemingford GOBA moorings 8 July

St Neots Tri-Athlon 16 July and 10 September 

St Neots Regatta 22/23 July 

St Ives Illuminated Boat Parade 14 October

If you want to visit Stretham Old Engine it's only open one Sunday a month.

Prickwillow Drainage Engine Museum is a must visit.

[Pie Eater]

Have a browse through the narrowboatwill vlog as he has been in that area.

[GUMPY]

26 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

And a bulldog clip for the Nene electric gate buttons to stop the sore finger syndrome!

You will have fun with the manual locks on the Nene if the electric ones give you a sore finger 🤔

By special request Titchmarsh lock has been added to those that are manual 😱

 

Fotrn and Goba are well worth joining.

Upwell is shallow just like the canal 😉

Some new "wild moorings" on the ML well worth exploring rather than dashing through.

If you want some real excitement try a trip down to Wisbech or Kings Lynn, just needs a bit of planning for the tides.

 

[David Mack]

The Cut Off Channel from Denver towards King's Lynn is worth doing. As is boating up beyond Bedford as far as the water depth allows.

[pearley]

43 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The Cut Off Channel from Denver towards King's Lynn is worth doing. As is boating up beyond Bedford as far as the water depth allows.

That's the Relief Channel. Cut Off Channel not navigable.

3 lots of pontoon moorings on the Relief Channel, all with water. The Downham Market one was rather full with overstayers last year. Good farm shop about mile walk from the Stowbridge one. Also a very nice pub there.

Edited May 22, 2023 by pearley

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, pearley said:

That's the Relief Channel. Cut Off Channel not navigable.

Yes. My mistake.

[Scholar Gypsy]

You  may find this helpful. I checked it quite recently and believe it is up to date

https://goba.org.uk/a-guide-for-visitors-to-the-east/

[pearley]

22 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Yes. My mistake.

Let you off!

 

What I find most remarkable that although the 2 channels were not constructed until the 50/60s they followed virtually the same course as suggested by Vermuyden 300 years earlier.

Edited May 22, 2023 by pearley

[Scholar Gypsy]

And there are lots of photos of the various extremities here, if that is helpful. I reckon the limit for Upware lock is about 64'

https://scholargypsy.org.uk/contents/

1 minute ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

And there are lots of photos of the various extremities here, if that is helpful. I reckon the limit for Upware lock is about 64'

https://scholargypsy.org.uk/contents/

Here's a map (hint, North is to the right!). The Ely Ouse has also been considerably modified since then.

 

[pearley]

Just now, Scholar Gypsy said:

And there are lots of photos of the various extremities here, if that is helpful. I reckon the limit for Upware lock is about 64'

https://scholargypsy.org.uk/contents/

It's certainly a bit tight in 60ft. But worth it. I really like the Upware visitor mooring as you are elevated above the land with the resultant fantastic sunsets.

[Scholar Gypsy]

And here is another lovely map, showing how things were about 1,000 AD.  (source: Chisholm   https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Anglo-Saxon-Hydraulic-Engineering-Fens-Chisholm-Michael/31367675444/bd ) 
 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Scholar Gypsy

[pearley]

8 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

And here is another lovely map, showing how things were about 1,000 AD.  (source: Chisholm   https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Anglo-Saxon-Hydraulic-Engineering-Fens-Chisholm-Michael/31367675444/bd ) 
 

Just finished reading "The Draining of the Fens" by HC Darby. I find the reclamation if the Fens fascinating.

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 minute ago, pearley said:

Just finished reading "The Draining of the Fens" by HC Darby. I find the reclamation if the Fens fascinating.

So do I !  There are a lot of new and good books around, I would commend The Fens by Francis Pryor which explains the new archeological techniques, and Imperial Mud by James Boyce which makes an interesting analogy between the Fens in C17 and later, and English attitudes to colonialization. (ie the Fenlanders were uncivilized savages etc).  A lot of the "accepted wisdom" has been debunked in recent years. A community that could have built this in 1083 can't have been that poor... 

[TheBiscuits]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Upwell is shallow

 

That's where that bloke who keeps throwing garden waste in the water lives ...

[john6767]

We have done the Nene and the ML, but we ran out of time, and still need to do the GT Ouse.

 

I thought with the new licensing you had to have a gold licence, as you can not buy a licence for the ML if you just have a CRT licence and an EA visitor licence?  That said the EA visitor licence for Nene and Ouse are even more expensive than the Thames, so I think if you intend to spend more and a month on EA, then it will be cheaper and certainly more convenient to get a gold licence. 
 

the windlass you need is for the ML, and there is also a ML Yale key, principally for the service at March, at least I think that is all we used it for.  You get them from Stanground lock.  
 

The way Stanground lock worked when we were there is that they give you a specific time to get to the lock.

 

I joined Friends of the River Nene, there is a lack of mooring on the Nene so it was worth it, I suspect they have more mooring now.  
 

We went off piste on the ML and there was quite a lot of weed, and of course some very low bridges, but well worth it. 

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 minute ago, john6767 said:

We have done the Nene and the ML, but we ran out of time, and still need to do the GT Ouse.

 

I thought with the new licensing you had to have a gold licence, as you can not buy a licence for the ML if you just have a CRT licence and an EA visitor licence?  That said the EA visitor licence for Nene and Ouse are even more expensive than the Thames, so I think if you intend to spend more and a month on EA, then it will be cheaper and certainly more convenient to get a gold licence. 
 

the windlass you need is for the ML, and there is also a ML Yale key, principally for the service at March, at least I think that is all we used it for.  You get them from Stanground lock.  
 

The way Stanground lock worked when we were there is that they give you a specific time to get to the lock.

 

I joined Friends of the River Nene, there is a lack of mooring on the Nene so it was worth it, I suspect they have more mooring now.  
 

We went off piste on the ML and there was quite a lot of weed, and of course some very low bridges, but well worth it. 

You'll need the Yale Key if you go really off piste eg to get through Lode End lock to Holme Fen, the lowest point in England.

[Mac of Cygnet]

In the 15 years I had Cygnet, three summers were spent in East Anglia, I liked it so much.  Including buying the boat at Calcutt, and taking her to Sowerby Bridge via Cambridge.  The most magical mooring?  Wicken Lode (but of course limited by Upware lock).  I could have been back in the Middle Ages.   There were some very ad hoc moorings to allow me to explore (and it did feel like exploration) some less frquented parts, but of course Cygnet was only 27ft. and I felt I could always turn round and retreat if necessary!

 

Edited to say that it was all very much less complicated regarding licences when I did it, including more than a month in the Middle Level with nothing to pay at all.  I think I would hesitate to do the same trips today.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Mac of Cygnet

[Scholar Gypsy]

6 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

In the 15 years I had Cygnet, three summers were spent in East Anglia, I liked it so much.  Including buying the boat at Calcutt, and taking her to Sowerby Bridge via Cambridge.  The most magical mooring?  Wicken Lode (but of course limited by Upware lock).  I could have been back in the Middle Ages.   There were some very ad hoc moorings to allow me to explore (and it did feel like exploration) some less frquented parts, but of course Cygnet was only 27ft. and I felt I could always turn round and retreat if necessary!

I think I would agree. Konik ponies featured in the latest David Attenborough series, February 2023:  https://scholargypsy.org.uk/2023/02/11/wicken-fen-in-the-winter/

Edited May 22, 2023 by Scholar Gypsy

[nicknorman]

34 minutes ago, john6767 said:

 

I thought with the new licensing you had to have a gold licence, as you can not buy a licence for the ML if you just have a CRT licence and an EA visitor licence?  That said the EA visitor licence for Nene and Ouse are even more expensive than the Thames, so I think if you intend to spend more and a month on EA, then it will be cheaper and certainly more convenient to get a gold licence. 

No I’m pretty sure you can get a daily, weekly or monthly licence for ML with just a CRT standard licence.  But you can’t get a short term licence for the Cam and the only way to get an “Anglian pass” which covers ML and Cam, is to have a gold licence (or annual EA registration)..

 

But doing the sums it looks like trading our CRT licence in for a gold one will be the best deal and certainly removes any timing hassles. Also means our licence will renew in January as opposed to April which means we might miss an increase!

Edited May 22, 2023 by nicknorman

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

No I’m pretty sure you can get a daily, weekly or monthly licence for ML with just a CRT standard licence.  But you can’t get a short term licence for the Cam and the only way to get an “Anglian pass” which covers ML and Cam, is to have a gold licence (or annual EA registration)..

 

But doing the sums it looks like trading our CRT licence in for a gold one will be the best deal and certainly removes any timing hassles. Also means our licence will renew in January as opposed to April which means we might miss an increase!

You are correct re the Cam (of which  I am now a Conservator - it's not as grand as it sounds!).