Best Stern for Single Handed

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Let me put it simply: you have no investment in the wellbeing of the forum or the canal infrastructure, your posts here dilute the value of this wonderful resource because we all need to either ignore your posts (virtually or using the forum feature) or wade through the tons of crap you post in amongst the occasional useful thing. I am sure you will say you don't argue, and you may very well perceive that you don't - but you do. Sometimes its entertaining, usually its boring and off-putting.

 

Step back once in a while.

 

Don't knee-jerk react.

 

Aim for quality; rather than quantity.

 

Comical. Utterly comical.

 

How about you step back? Nobody asked you to stick your oar in did they?

[Captain Pegg]

I can't see why a manufacturer would be obliged to hold back their offer price or their actual build costs for any product they can offer or have offered. It's their information to do what they want with.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I can't see why a manufacturer would be obliged to hold back their offer price or their actual build costs for any product they can offer or have offered. It's their information to do what they want with.

Correct. And for obvious reasons they're also much more likely to be open with a customer spending a 6-digit sum with them than a keyboard warrior spoiling for an argument... 😉

 

But like the technical details of a new boat design that they've invested a lot of time and effort getting to, they can also ask that this isn't made public.. 🙂

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I can't see why a manufacturer would be obliged to hold back their offer price or their actual build costs for any product they can offer or have offered. It's their information to do what they want with.

 

Is it their info to share though?

 

I would say no it isn't (obviously ). Particulaly when its a bespoke build that doesnt come with an 'off the shelf' price which is visible to all.

 

 

15 minutes ago, IanD said:

Correct. And for obvious reasons they're also much more likely to be open with a customer spending a 6-digit sum with them than a keyboard warrior spoiling for an argument... 😉

 

But like the technical details of a new boat design that they've invested a lot of time and effort getting to, they can also ask that this isn't made public.. 🙂

 

Off you go again. 'I'm spending loads of money on a boat'.

 

Honestly?

 

I should also add that I have no interest in how much that boat costs, because its none of my business, just as it isnt any of yours even if you are spending circa £250k with them. That frankly counts for nothing.

[peterboat]

46 minutes ago, IanD said:

Correct. And for obvious reasons they're also much more likely to be open with a customer spending a 6-digit sum with them than a keyboard warrior spoiling for an argument... 😉

 

But like the technical details of a new boat design that they've invested a lot of time and effort getting to, they can also ask that this isn't made public.. 🙂

Ian we don't agree on a lot of things but we do agree on this, Finesse have invested serious time and money on Electric boats, I would say they are the best in the country at this moment in time, they can't afford to lose that lead after literally putting all their eggs in one basket! I for one won't endanger them as I am friends with most of them there

[Captain Pegg]

53 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

Is it their info to share though?

 

I would say no it isn't (obviously ). Particulaly when its a bespoke build that doesnt come with an 'off the shelf' price which is visible to all.

 

 

Yes.

 

Build costs are solely their own information. The people who bought that boat have no right no know that. It's also possible that for a boat such as this the sale price was less than build cost. I haven't read the thread in detail but I don't think anyone has stated exactly which cost was divulged. My guess is that it was a broad order of cost. 

 

There may be an argument that offer price is moot because there isn't anything to offer but even when it comes to actual sale price the argument against disclosure is ethical rather than legal.

 

As it happens I see sales documents that tell me who bought a boat and what they paid for it regularly.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Yes.

 

Build costs are solely their own information. The people who bought that boat have no right no know that. It's also possible that for a boat such as this the sale price was less than build cost. I haven't read the thread in detail but I don't think anyone has stated exactly which cost was divulged. My guess is that it was a broad order of cost. 

 

There may be an argument that offer price is moot because there isn't anything to offer but even when it comes to actual sale price the argument against disclosure is ethical rather than legal.

 

As it happens I see sales documents that tell me who bought a boat and what they paid for it regularly.

 

The claim being made is that the ammount paid by the buyers was divulged by the builder.

 

That is not the sellers information to divulge to a third party.

 

You presumably as a boat mover see such documents as part of the moving process and therefore have a vested interest. 

 

It would be like you divulging how much you specifically charged one of your customers to move their boat from A to B. Another customer of yours does not have the same vested interest.

 

You could give a quote for the same journey but it would be unethical to tell someone how much a particular customer paid because for a variety of reasons you may have chosen to charge them differently.

[Captain Pegg]

6 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

The claim being made is that the ammount paid by the buyers was divulged by the builder.

 

That is not the sellers information to divulge to a third party.

 

You presumably as a boat mover see such documents as part of the moving process and therefore have a vested interest. 

 

It would be like you divulging how much you specifically charged one of your customers to move their boat from A to B. Another customer of yours does not have the same vested interest.

 

You could give a quote for the same journey but it would be unethical to tell someone how much a particular customer paid because for a variety of reasons you may have chosen to charge them differently.

 

It obviously is the sellers information but it's not solely their information. There is no data protection law against it but it could be considered unethical.

 

I have no vested interest in the historic sale prices of any boat I move. I need to know the broad current value for insurance purposes and customers or brokers will divulge that information. What they sell for isn't my business and I don't know any more than anybody viewing those boats online. I may be told the value assigned by a 'broker' to a part exchange boat or the price of one they have bought outright. That is their business to divulge if they wish.

 

I've also had a customer declare their boat moving costs on social media and that included costs they paid to the broker for fueling the boat before departure.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about the ethics but it's not really a discussion that's worthwhile on this forum. It's a matter that only directly relates to a parties that aren't members.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

It obviously is the sellers information but it's not solely their information. There is no data protection law against it but it could be considered unethical.

 

I have no vested interest in the historic sale prices of any boat I move. I need to know the broad current value for insurance purposes and customers or brokers will divulge that information. What they sell for isn't my business and I don't know any more than anybody viewing those boats online. I may be told the value assigned by a 'broker' to a part exchange boat or the price of one they have bought outright. That is their business to divulge if they wish.

 

I've also had a customer declare their boat moving costs on social media and that included costs they paid to the broker for fueling the boat before departure.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about the ethics but it's not really a discussion that's worthwhile on this forum. It's a matter that only directly relates to a parties that aren't members.

 

 

If somebody divulges the cost they paid for you to move their boat that is their information to share.

 

But yes we can agree on the ethics though. That was fundamentaly my point.

Edited May 24, 2023 by M_JG

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

It obviously is the sellers information but it's not solely their information. There is no data protection law against it but it could be considered unethical.

 

I have no vested interest in the historic sale prices of any boat I move. I need to know the broad current value for insurance purposes and customers or brokers will divulge that information. What they sell for isn't my business and I don't know any more than anybody viewing those boats online. I may be told the value assigned by a 'broker' to a part exchange boat or the price of one they have bought outright. That is their business to divulge if they wish.

 

I've also had a customer declare their boat moving costs on social media and that included costs they paid to the broker for fueling the boat before departure.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about the ethics but it's not really a discussion that's worthwhile on this forum. It's a matter that only directly relates to a parties that aren't members.

 

 

When I'm having a boat built ('ow much?!?!?), it's perfectly ethical to ask the builder "How much more would one like Time of Life cost?" -- just like asking "How much extra would a Josher bow and inset side panels and rivets like that one over there cost?", or "how much extra for the 35kWh LFP battery over the 20kWh one?".

 

I know all these figures, but they're between me and Ricky -- if anyone else wants to know, why not hand over a large sum of money to show you're serious and then ask him yourself? 😉

 

(I did tell someone privately and in confidence how much my boat cost, because he was looking at getting a similar one built -- however that's my business and his, not the forums...)

 

Methinks somebody on here is just trying to pick an argument rather than make any useful contribution to the forum... 😉

Edited May 24, 2023 by IanD

[Guest]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

When I'm having a boat built ('ow much?!?!?), it's perfectly ethical to ask the builder "How much more would one like Time of Life cost?" -- just like asking "How much extra would a Josher bow and inset side panels and rivets like that one over there cost?".

 

I know all these figures, but they're between me and Ricky -- if anyone else wants to know, why not hand over a large sum of money and then ask him yourself? 😉

 

And again....

 

Im very rich and spending loads of money?

 

Seriously?

 

Harry Enfield rides again.

[Captain Pegg]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

When I'm having a boat built ('ow much?!?!?), it's perfectly ethical to ask the builder "How much more would one like Time of Life cost?" -- just like asking "How much extra would a Josher bow and inset side panels and rivets like that one over there cost?", or "how much extra for the 35kWh LFP battery over the 20kWh one?".

 

I know all these figures, but they're between me and Ricky -- if anyone else wants to know, why not hand over a large sum of money to show you're serious and then ask him yourself? 😉

 

It's totally fine to ask that. If I were him though I'd tell you what it would cost you if he built another rather than what the one he sold actually sold for. Of course they may be the same number. I think there is some implied confidentiality in the specifics of a contract purely on ethical grounds, unless you know both parties are fine with those details being divulged, which again may be the case.  

[IanD]

31 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

It's totally fine to ask that. If I were him though I'd tell you what it would cost you if he built another rather than what the one he sold actually sold for. Of course they may be the same number. I think there is some implied confidentiality in the specifics of a contract purely on ethical grounds, unless you know both parties are fine with those details being divulged, which again may be the case.  

What you said is exactly what I asked, as I thought I'd made clear -- I'm always careful to respect confidentiality, if you don't then nobody will tell you anything in future 🙂

 

Probably not exactly the same number anyway given the time difference, and it's also not uncommon to effectively give a discount to the first person to try out something new because it acts as a high-profile demonstrator -- but this is speculation, whether this happened with Time of Life is between Ricky and the customer... 😉

 

(But I've done deals like this in the past in other fields, both supplier and customer win)

[Guest]

5 hours ago, IanD said:

-- I know the actual figure

 

Mmmmmm....

 

Not quite the same as asking what a boat like that would cost now.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Probably not exactly the same number anyway given the time difference, and it's also not uncommon to effectively give a discount to the first person to try out something new because it acts as a high-profile demonstrator -- but this is speculation, whether this happened with Time of Life is between Ricky and the customer... 😉

 

(But I've done deals like this in the past in other fields, both supplier and customer win)

 

In my experience this is a risky business strategy as it inevitably leads to the next customer saying "Well you did it for "£x" for him, why not for me?" 

 

Or in my field back in the day, the same customer saying "You did it for for £x last time, same again please." Hard to argue against without souring the business relationship. 

 

Nowadays I make sure of a healthy profit from day one on anything I do or I turn the business down. 

 

 

 

[IanD]

14 hours ago, MtB said:

 

In my experience this is a risky business strategy as it inevitably leads to the next customer saying "Well you did it for "£x" for him, why not for me?" 

 

Or in my field back in the day, the same customer saying "You did it for for £x last time, same again please." Hard to argue against without souring the business relationship. 

 

Nowadays I make sure of a healthy profit from day one on anything I do or I turn the business down. 

 

 

I never said that I'd been told that such a deal had been done, or the exact price that the customer paid, I just know that such deals are not uncommon where the supplier sees value in either the publicity or the experience -- and what's certain is that this particular boat got a *lot* of attention. Maybe the customer got a good deal because of this, or maybe they got charged the full whack given the depth of their pockets...

 

I was simply told what it might cost if I wanted a similar boat (and Peter's £500k is not a bad estimate), which involves no  confidentiality or ethical issues, and is what you'd have thought would be of interest to people interested in boats rather than arguing for the sake of it... 😉

Edited May 25, 2023 by IanD

[David Mack]

11 hours ago, M_JG said:

The claim being made is that the ammount paid by the buyers was divulged by the builder.

 

That is not the sellers information to divulge to a third party.

 

11 hours ago, M_JG said:

If somebody divulges the cost they paid for you to move their boat that is their information to share.

 

So are you saying that in any transaction the customer is free to disclose the cost of the goods or service, but the supplier isn't?

 

That seems very illogical to me. I would have thought the rights of disclosure were the same for both parties, unless the contract specifically states otherwise.

[Tigerr]

I have a dog, he sits on the semi trad seat. I nearly bought a trad stern but he wasn’t having it - he’d be around my feet and a hazard. I also like to be able to perch on the high seat with my feet on the other side seat for cruising comfort.  the compromise is the engine being down in the hole which is increasingly inconvenient as gave advances.

But - for cruising with the dog - the semi trad setup is ideal. 

[IanD]

19 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

I have a dog, he sits on the semi trad seat. I nearly bought a trad stern but he wasn’t having it - he’d be around my feet and a hazard. I also like to be able to perch on the high seat with my feet on the other side seat for cruising comfort.  the compromise is the engine being down in the hole which is increasingly inconvenient as gave advances.

But - for cruising with the dog - the semi trad setup is ideal. 

Oh no, you've gone against the "trad is best" mafia -- expect opprobrium as a result! 😉

 

Different things -- including sterns -- suit different people, they all have pros and cons, and what suits one person the best won't necessarily suit another the best...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

So are you saying that in any transaction the customer is free to disclose the cost of the goods or service, but the supplier isn't?

 

No not in any transaction. I am not saying that at all.

 

But I believe in certain transactions (like the ones you cited) the price the customer pays to the supplier is a matter between them and no body else. The supplier is of course free to quote another customer for the same goods or service and that may or may not be the same.

1 hour ago, Tigerr said:

But - for cruising with the dog - the semi trad setup is ideal. 

 

We found the same.

[enigmatic]

17 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I can't see why a manufacturer would be obliged to hold back their offer price or their actual build costs for any product they can offer or have offered. It's their information to do what they want with.

There's also a ballpark figure provided by Finesse in the linked article. I'm sure if you said "so what bells and whistles do they have apart from the electric propulsion and what do they cost and sounded like a customer rather than a competitor, they'd give you an answer

 

 

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

There's also a ballpark figure provided by Finesse in the linked article. I'm sure if you said "so what bells and whistles do they have apart from the electric propulsion and what do they cost and sounded like a customer rather than a competitor, they'd give you an answer

 

 

I am a customer, and they did... 🙂

Edited May 25, 2023 by IanD

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I am a customer, and they did... 🙂

 

Well if you really want to prolong this fairynuff.

 

Yes we know. But you claimed you knew the actual cost Finesse had charged the owner, which is different from being quoted a 'ball park figure' separately for what it may cost a new customer.

 

Not quite the same thing.

 

And as your boat is nothing like Time of Life the actual cost of it is completely irrelevant to you.

Edited May 25, 2023 by M_JG

[cuthound]

9 hours ago, Tigerr said:

I have a dog, he sits on the semi trad seat. I nearly bought a trad stern but he wasn’t having it - he’d be around my feet and a hazard. I also like to be able to perch on the high seat with my feet on the other side seat for cruising comfort.  the compromise is the engine being down in the hole which is increasingly inconvenient as gave advances.

But - for cruising with the dog - the semi trad setup is ideal. 

 

Our first two rescues enjoyed travelling in the "cuthound seat".

 

Then when the second one become old and arthritic we got our current trad because he found it easier to go down into the cabin via the engine cover and steps rather than the short ladder that both of our semi-trads had to access the cabin.

[Roper]

9 hours ago, Tigerr said:

I have a dog, he sits on the semi trad seat. I nearly bought a trad stern but he wasn’t having it - he’d be around my feet and a hazard. I also like to be able to perch on the high seat with my feet on the other side seat for cruising comfort.  the compromise is the engine being down in the hole which is increasingly inconvenient as gave advances.

But - for cruising with the dog - the semi trad setup is ideal. 

How dare you bring this back on topic 😆