Engine mount to engine bearer torque settings

[PCSB]

Does anyone know the torque settings for the bolts that secure the engine mount to the engine bearer? Canaline 42 & PRM150. The bolts are 17mm so I believe they will be M10's. Noticed some that were not tight (not loose, just not tight). My instinct is to go FT but if there is a correct setting I can grab a torque wrench from a friend and do it correctly.

 

No undue vibration and from what I can tell all is still in alignment. The mount to engine leg fittings are all tight too.

 

TIA,

Paul.

[springy]

The bolt head should be marked, probably 8.8 but could be 9.8, 10.9 or 12.6 - these give you the bolt strength and thus the Maximum you could use,

From here 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-bolts-maximum-torque-d_2054.html

 

gives a Maximum of 57.3 Nm for M10 8.8 grade, other grades higher. Doesn't actually seem that high to me - FT with a spanner but easily surpassed using the longer leverage available with a torque wrench.

 

springy

[BEngo]

FT with a spanner.  Fit nyloc nuts to discourage vibration loosening.

 

N

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, BEngo said:

FT with a spanner.  Fit nyloc nuts to discourage vibration loosening.

 

N

Seconded.

[Peugeot 106]

45 minutes ago, BEngo said:

FT with a spanner.  Fit nyloc nuts to discourage vibration loosening.

 

N

Now for the truly ignorant could you possibly expand on FT. I assume it means Fully Tight with a “normal size” spanner but it would be helpful if you explained for those of us with supernatural strength or in my case very little strength? I’m never sure exactly what the relationship between standard spanner size and tightness is though i’ve Stripped plenty of threads in my time. 

I’m asking for a practical lesson on using spanner’s to get the correct torque. I’ve come across one finger tightness etc but some simple rules would be very helpful as the obvious is not always obvious to the likes of me

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Now for the truly ignorant could you possibly expand on FT.

 

No, because it is probably against the forum rules.

 

However, it is a matter of feel and a decent spanner should be of a length that makes it difficult, but not impossible, for a normal person to strip the thread.

[PCSB]

10 hours ago, springy said:

The bolt head should be marked, probably 8.8 but could be 9.8, 10.9 or 12.6 - these give you the bolt strength and thus the Maximum you could use,

From here 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-bolts-maximum-torque-d_2054.html

 

gives a Maximum of 57.3 Nm for M10 8.8 grade, other grades higher. Doesn't actually seem that high to me - FT with a spanner but easily surpassed using the longer leverage available with a torque wrench.

 

springy

Thanks. I'll bookmark that site

 

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

FT with a spanner.  Fit nyloc nuts to discourage vibration loosening.

 

N

Ta muchly. I may put witness lines on the bolts and mounting plate as a quick check.

 

55 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Seconded.

Thanks Tony

 

7 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Now for the truly ignorant could you possibly expand on FT. I assume it means Fully Tight with a “normal size” spanner but it would be helpful if you explained for those of us with supernatural strength or in my case very little strength? I’m never sure exactly what the relationship between standard spanner size and tightness is though i’ve Stripped plenty of threads in my time. 

I’m asking for a practical lesson on using spanner’s to get the correct torque. I’ve come across one finger tightness etc but some simple rules would be very helpful as the obvious is not always obvious to the likes of me

 

 

 

Apologies, I first came across FT when I was in the RAF, if you substitute the Fully with a swear word you will have it. In practice it is as tight as practical using a spanner of typical length for the bolt size. Some people develop a feel for when things are tight enough ...

[Eeyore]

1 hour ago, PCSB said:

 

Apologies, I first came across FT when I was in the RAF, if you substitute the Fully with a swear word you will have it. In practice it is as tight as practical using a spanner of typical length for the bolt size. Some people develop a feel for when things are tight enough ...

The “F” is a commonly used abbreviation for the “universal adjective”. 😎 We was taught proper in the RN.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Eeyore

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

The “F” is a commonly used abbreviation for the “universal adjective”. 😎 We was taught proper in the RN.

Adjective, pronoun, noun -- possibly the only word in the English language which can be used four times in a row to make a grammatically correct sentence by adding only "The" in front... 😉

Edited May 16, 2023 by IanD

[springy]

1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I’m asking for a practical lesson on using spanner’s to get the correct torque. I’ve come across one finger tightness etc but some simple rules would be very helpful as the obvious is not always obvious to the likes of me

 

Think of the spanner as a lever - the longer the spanner the more leverage you have and so you can pull the nut tighter for a given hand pressure.

This page shows how to improvise a torque wrench with a spanner and a luggage scale and how to calculate the torque applied :-

 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-wrench-luggage-scale-d_1909.html

 

springy

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, springy said:

 

Think of the spanner as a lever - the longer the spanner the more leverage you have and so you can pull the nut tighter for a given hand pressure.

This page shows how to improvise a torque wrench with a spanner and a luggage scale and how to calculate the torque applied :-

 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-wrench-luggage-scale-d_1909.html

 

springy

Or once, when fitting new wheel bearings on a car that needed to be done  up to a ridiculously high torque, sliding a scaffold pole on to the socket bar, then calculating how far along it I needed to stand, with the scaff pole parallel to the ground!

[BEngo]

1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I’m asking for a practical lesson on using spanner’s to get the correct torque. I’ve come across one finger tightness etc but some simple rules would be very helpful as the obvious is not always obvious to the likes of me

 

Assuming the threads are clean,oiled  and in good order. 

 

Finger tight- self evident. 

 

Tight: hard enough pull to get one white knuckle on a spanner of the correct size.

 

Dead Tight/ B Tight:  Two white  knuckles  on a combination spanner, using the ring end on the nut

 

F TIght:  three white knuckles on  a combination spanner as above.

 

Loony Tight:  Three white knuckles on a huge breaker bar with a 3/4 drive socket.

 

Jesus Nut Tight.  Tighter than a tight thing.Fitted with a hydraulic spanner.  Not going to vibrate loose, ever.

 

N

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Or once, when fitting new wheel bearings on a car that needed to be done  up to a ridiculously high torque, sliding a scaffold pole on to the socket bar, then calculating how far along it I needed to stand, with the scaff pole parallel to the ground!

Or the same in reverse, to get wheel nuts off that had presumably been tightened by a gorilla with an air spanner... 😞

[ditchcrawler]

48 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Assuming the threads are clean,oiled  and in good order. 

 

 

If they are oiled consider this 

 

General Information on Torque Specifications (antiseize.com)

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by ditchcrawler

[Eeyore]

Oh go on then, what about yield point tightening (if you can afford the kit).

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Adjective, pronoun, noun -- possibly the only word in the English language which can be used four times in a row to make a grammatically correct sentence by adding only "The" in front... 😉

It may not be an exclusively Bristolian thing, but it definitely fits very nicely, in its various forms, between the syllables of longer words. Dia*bolical is a personal favourite.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 hours ago, Eeyore said:

Dia*bolical is a personal favourite

Fan*tastic is mine