Harborough Marine narrowboat

[Mark R]

I’m off to take a look at the following boat on Sunday, now I know a lot of you guys will scoff at what you’re about to see but I’d ask you to overlook the very strange paint job and the ‘modern’ interior.

 

I was hoping you might be able to offer advice as to value! The boat is a 1973 Harborough Marine 57’, stern cruiser, narrow boat. I believe it to have been an ex hire boat, owned by a previous owner for decades before being bought by the current vendor who is selling it as a project boat (he’s not finished his own personal fit-out).

 

Having learned a bit about Harborough Marine I’m lead to believe that their hull bottoms were often 6mm thick. The present owner said the hull on this was between 8 and 10mm thick with the sides being 6mm. He tells me the boat has never been over-plated. Would I be right in thinking that this design would have been a wet bilge?

 

From the information online it appears that the boatbuilder made these boats with a GRP top, when I asked the seller the thickness of steel for the top I’m sure he said 4mm, do you guys think the pictures show it being made of GRP?

 

There is no survey or BSC with this boat. What are your general opinions? I was initially taken by it as a project but given it’s age, the presumed plate thicknesses at the time of building and that it’s not been over-plated I’m starting to think it might not be value for money.

 

I intend to take an ultrasonic thickness tester with me to do a few checks and would never buy any boat without a survey. You might save me a wasted visit though!

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/478759551076066/

[Tony Brooks]

Seeing the source, what have you done to minimise the chances that this is not yet another scam.

I spy wooden handrails, so always a propensity to leak.

 

The side doors suggest the top is steel to me, as does the way the roof overlaps the top of the cabin side but no idea about the framing etc.

[mrsmelly]

I had a harborough years ago and it was a good boat. However, they are all now very old hulls. If its sound, then it will be fine. Yes it will have been a through/wet bilge so check for interior corrosion. I would guess at 6 mil baseplate but dont be put off, I have had 6 mil 10 mil 12 mil and 15 mil baseplates, all were fine. I bought a twenty year old colecraft with 6 mil sides and bottom that had not been blacked for 18 years or docked!! and the worst bit was 5.7mm

The ONLY way to know wether this is a good hull or not is to go and look.

[Mark R]

How do you mean scam? Maybe I'm being naive but I'm only going to look at it. I'd certainly not part with that amount of money on a whim. Am I being a bit green?

 

[Jak]

Seems like a lot of money for a project boat though. 

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Mark R said:

How do you mean scam? Maybe I'm being naive but I'm only going to look at it. I'd certainly not part with that amount of money on a whim. Am I being a bit green?

 

 

1 minute ago, Jak said:

Seems like a lot of money for a project boat though. 

Its a ridiculous price for what it is, even in todays inflated market. Hes probably a chancer thats hoping for someone a bit green. Trouble today is, everything is a ridiculous price!! Property being the worst.

[Mark R]

Jak, maybe it is. My thoughts were if it was mainly completed much of the structural work would be complete and the boat would be in a good position for the fit-out. Again, maybe I'm being naive.

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Mark R said:

How do you mean scam? Maybe I'm being naive but I'm only going to look at it. I'd certainly not part with that amount of money on a whim. Am I being a bit green?

 

 

All sorts of scammers selling boats that do not belong to the seller seem to like social media sites. Some of the excuses as to why you can't see the boat, why they have no document trail for the boat and so on are very convincing and inventive. Ask to see his driving licence, take a photo of it and his face, ask for proof of address. Ask to see receipts for work done, mooring fees, licensing etc. Once you get the address, try to visit the house to see if he actually lives there.

 

There is no system of registered owner for boats ;like there is for cars, so just take precautions to minimise any risk.

[Mark R]

mrsmelly, that's interesting you both say that, from what I gathered the guy wanted to sell and recoup some of the costs. My gut feeling was it might be on the high side.

 

Cheers Tony, appreciate your insight. It's certainly something I need to pay attention.

[LadyG]

18 minutes ago, Jak said:

Seems like a lot of money for a project boat though. 

Seems like a lot of money for an old boat which has never been a great boat.

The vendor has lots of good things to say about steel but without proof the opinion of vendor of such an old boat comes in may well be in the realms of wishful thinking.

I know boats have gone up in price the last four years, but this time could be top of the market. I think you could go and have a look but as a learning experience. Bear in mind he might well have paid £20K for it and that in four years time it could be back at that sort of money.

IF you are looking for a cheaper alternative to renting housing for yourself, you may need to do a lot of research and define your needs a bit tighter. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, Mark R said:

mrsmelly, that's interesting you both say that, from what I gathered the guy wanted to sell and recoup some of the costs. My gut feeling was it might be on the high side.

 

Cheers Tony, appreciate your insight. It's certainly something I need to pay attention.

 

It looks suspiciously as if the hull lining is reclaimed stained pallet wood. Nothing really wrong with that if it is, but tends to suggest penny-pinching. Radiators are cheap compared with the means of plumbing and heating that radiator.

[Mad Harold]

1973 is well old!

The vendor may say it's not been overplated but zooming in on the hull pics,I can see what looks like overplating or perhaps substantial patching.

The asking price is far too much for a boat of that age. It needs substantial fitting out, which I am sure you know will be costly and involve lots of work.

I would estimate the asking price from the information and photos published to be less than £10K.

I don't think an experienced boater would buy it, but a newbie might.

If you have £35K to spend on a boat, then I am sure you can do much better than that.

Keep looking and have patience.

Personally I am fairly pissed off with brokers and vendors of boats trying to talk up the price of boats.I have looked and am still looking for my next boat, but having owned three, I am now no pushover, and when I hear the usual horse manure spiel about buy now cos the price of boats is going through the roof, and what superb boat this is when I can see that the boat is anything but superb, I can feel my temper rising as I have probably driven for three hours to look at rubbish!

[system 4-50]

If thats the price for that boat, I should've trebled the price of my boat when I sold it 18 months ago!

[Mark R]

Cheers Mad Harold, from what you are saying it really does sound like it is overpriced...

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Jak said:

Seems like a lot of money for a project boat though. 

An awful lot

 

[Bee]

It needs looking at carefully. 1973 is an old boat. It was almost certainly built with 1/4" bottom and 3/16 sides and that top is fibreglass, that overlap is where the GRP 'lid' was fixed on. The chances of the hull not being overplated are very small indeed and in fact if I was buying it I would prefer seeing overplating. A 50 year old boat will have a lot of corrosion. I think it will have a straight through bilge and you will need to have a look at what lies beneath the floor, it might not be pretty. This looks like an attractive proposition but there is a great deal that might be wrong with it, be very careful, i fear its beauty might be cosmetic only and underneath it might be a raddled old hag. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Bee

[David Mack]

Looks like the standard Harborough grp cabin to me under that paint job. I also think I can see evidence of hull repairs, although the photos are not clear from that perspective. But a 50 year old hull without any repairs will probably be paper-thin anyway!

£35k is a ridiculous price for a part fitted boat that age. Old enough to have lots of problems, but not old enough to be of any real 'historic' value.

And no information at all about the engine and other systems. Does it even have a working engine? Would originally have been fitted with an air cooled Lister SR3, but anything (or nothing) might being there now.

One not to touch with your bargepole I think.

 

[Mark R]

I should have mentioned it is an SR3 in there, not running due to electrics though! From what I gather the owner hasn't been to the boat in a number of months, which come to think about it seems odd in that he told me that he'd had two people look at it and want to buy it.

[Hudds Lad]

Unless it’s being sold by Banksy there’s no way it’s worth that money. Lined with laminate not pallet wood, look careful you can see the pattern repeat.

 

2 minutes ago, Mark R said:

told me that he'd had two people look at it and want to buy it.

Classic sales technique to get you to bite, if two people wanted to buy it why is it still for sale?

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Unless it’s being sold by Banksy there’s no way it’s worth that money. Lined with laminate not pallet wood, look careful you can see the pattern repeat.

 

Classic sales technique to get you to bite, if two people wanted to buy it why is it still for sale?

Its only been up for 18 weeks so far, unless it re-advertised 

[Hudds Lad]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its only been up for 18 weeks so far, unless it re-advertised 

But “the first to see it will buy it”  

[alan_fincher]

36 minutes ago, Mark R said:

I should have mentioned it is an SR3 in there, not running due to electrics though!

 

Provided it comes with a starting handle you don't need any electrics of any description - just the ability to crank hard, and the knack of when to put it into compression.

 

This does look one of the most absurdly priced boats that anybody has pointed us to in a long while.

 

I would say "walk away", but "run away" would be even better advice!

[ditchcrawler]

48 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 This does look one of the most absurdly priced boats that anybody has pointed us to in a long while.

 

I would say "walk away", but "run away" would be even better advice!

[matty40s]

Its on facebook so sorry, cant help you, I'm out.

[MtB]

Looks to me like a boat where something bad has been discovered which the seller can't deal with (e.g. needing a £10k engine rebuild) so now wants out. So added up all the hours he spent on it plus materials used plus what he paid for it to arrive at "what it owes him".

 

I'd have thought it was a £15k project boat, tops. Or £10k for a quick sale given there is no interior and it is stuck on the hard with rent being paid.