magnetman Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 Reading the wikipedia article about the Spector geyser it really shows how bad it can be to be 'successful' and famous. Or maybe he was just a nutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted May 24, 2023 Report Share Posted May 24, 2023 On 12/05/2023 at 00:32, john.k said: I d laugh if someone gives him another derelict boat to live on. The boat was not possessed because of its condition but because it was not licenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Flight Posted May 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2023 https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/23533006.homeless-boater-now-living-tent-bradford-avon-canal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 What would George's living conditions be described as now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Heartland said: What would George's living conditions be described as now ? He seems to have shade, better headroom and much more width than a narrowboat interior. I'd say its an improvement. It would also be an improvement over an unheated narrowboat in winter - but that's not directly answering your question. Now, 27th March at about 10:34am, its lovely weather for camping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, Paul C said: He seems to have shade, better headroom and much more width than a narrowboat interior. I'd say its an improvement. It would also be an improvement over an unheated narrowboat in winter - but that's not directly answering your question. Now, 27th March at about 10:34am, its lovely weather for camping. It looks quite comforable at the moment (27th May) and with his solar panels he appears to be here for the long haul, don't like to think about his toilet facilities, but I wonder now what CRT are going to do about him. He does appear to be an awkward old sod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 What legal powers do CRT have to stop people camping on their land? The nearest I can see in the Byelaws is that you must not obstruct the towpath, but is his tent actually an obstruction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 1 minute ago, David Mack said: What legal powers do CRT have to stop people camping on their land? The nearest I can see in the Byelaws is that you must not obstruct the towpath, but is his tent actually an obstruction? The Vagrancy Act 1824, I'd have thought. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_Act_1824 "The Vagrancy Act 1824 is an Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom that makes it an offence to sleep rough or beg in England and Wales." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacchus Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Mad Harold said: don't like to think about his toilet facilities From the article (my italics) -- "George Ward, 62, is camping on the canal towpath close to Smelly Bridge near Bradford on Avon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 1 hour ago, MtB said: The Vagrancy Act 1824, I'd have thought. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_Act_1824 "The Vagrancy Act 1824 is an Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom that makes it an offence to sleep rough or beg in England and Wales." That seems to be a law that is honoured more in the breach than the observance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 hours ago, David Mack said: What legal powers do CRT have to stop people camping on their land? The nearest I can see in the Byelaws is that you must not obstruct the towpath, but is his tent actually an obstruction? Whatever the actual detail of the law is, the police are very well aware of the situation and took no action. I'm not sure CRT can take legal action except on the relevant byelaws and waterways acts (which would mention the duty of the "board"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 The towpath is private land (unless it is a section designated as public right of way, in which case you have a right to pass along it, but not to erect a tent, store possessions or stay indefinitely). So I think by camping Ward is trespassing and maybe also squatting. In either case I think that means CRT would have to get a Court Order if he refuses to go. But past history would suggest that is not a quick way of dealing with the matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 47 minutes ago, Paul C said: Whatever the actual detail of the law is, the police are very well aware of the situation and took no action. I'm not sure CRT can take legal action except on the relevant byelaws and waterways acts (which would mention the duty of the "board"). They could use Section 9 of the British Waterways Act 1983. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 55 minutes ago, Orwellian said: They could use Section 9 of the British Waterways Act 1983. Which is here as a PDF, if anyone wants to read it. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1983/2/pdfs/ukla_19830002_en.pdf Scroll down to page 10 of the PDF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 It does not seem to mention the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, magnetman said: It does not seem to mention the land. Mind you, right at the beginning we have this, which basically says "inland waterway" includes the towpath and other land associated with the waterway: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, magnetman said: It does not seem to mention the land. Look at section 2 Interpretation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) The problem here is that there is a.) b.) and c.). a.) and b.) don't apply and c.) seems to be interesting as it mentions lawful authority to be "in the waterway or reservoir". How would lawful authority work if you are on land owned by the board? Does the tent need a BSC and a licence given that the land owned by the Board / Trust is included in the part 2 definition of 'waterway'? I flagged this on this thread a while ago as a potentially interesting situation. The CRT need to get their shit together and deal with inappropriate use of land asap or Bad Things will happen. This Ward geyser is a squatter and as with all good squatters he is asking questions by his actions. Interesting questions. Edited May 27, 2023 by magnetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, magnetman said: The problem here is that there is 1, 2 and 3. 1 and 2 don't apply and 3 seems to be interesting as it mentions lawful authority to be "in a waterway or reservoir". How would lawful authority work if tou are on land owned by the board? I flagged this on this thread a while ago as a potentially interesting situation. The CRT need to get their shit together and deal with inappropriate use of land asap or Bad Things will happen. I think George is going to turn out to be a trailblazer. Given CRT's dismally slow response to George's 'two fingers' up at them regarding his boats, I can imagine them taking another ten years with his tent. To start with, they will no doubt feel obliged to obtain an unnecessary court order to clear it off their waterway just as they did with his boat. Which will probably require at least three or four years of navel-gazing while they try to wake up their solicitor. By which time I suspect 'tent' will be too small a word to describe the small shanty town George will probably build for himself. Lots of people will be watching and I suspect more tent-dwellers will join him as neighbours. I think what might happen actually is the local planning authority will issue an enforcement order of some sort to force CRT's hand. But whatever happens, I can see it taking years to implement. During which time, living in a complicated and high-tech tent on the canal bank will become a thing. After all there are plenty of facilities provided for boaters they can use. Already most CRT car parks have a campervan or two. Edited May 27, 2023 by MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 I wonder if there are laws around littering. It seems to me that the temporary nature of a tent and associated equipment and activities would be dealt with by something other than waterways legislation. There is no boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 27, 2023 Report Share Posted May 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, magnetman said: I wonder if there are laws around littering. It seems to me that the temporary nature of a tent and associated equipment and activities would be dealt with by something other than waterways legislation. There is no boat. But by CRT's own argument, it is someone's home and therefore a court order must be obtained first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 His tent would make a good starter for a bonfire. Would be a real shame if the local scrotes decided to have one🤔😱 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 There have been quite a few little tent encampments on the K&A in the past, I don't know if and how they have been removed by the authorities. Also discrete overnight camping accross the system is not uncommon, a few people do some very big towpath walks. The canal is a mostly relaxed place full of slightly unconventional characters and it will be very sad if George causes things to get more controlled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 6 hours ago, GUMPY said: His tent would make a good starter for a bonfire. Would be a real shame if the local scrotes decided to have one🤔😱 If CRT ever get around to cutting the towpath vegetation the mower would make a right mess of his tent... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 On 27/05/2023 at 17:18, MtB said: I think what might happen actually is the local planning authority will issue an enforcement order of some sort to force CRT's hand. But whatever happens, If (and it's a big if) the local authority use their powers - which might be planning or one of their other statutory functions, the CRT will be given a relatively short period to act or the authority will do it for them. Planning authorities have had houses demolished before now so the fact it's a tent that someone is living in won't stop them - lack of resources and lack of political will might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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