Looking for three month hire in northern canals

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

We someutimes hired a boat that is bigger than needed for the crew size.

 

Thus plenty of space. 

 

We often did the same, for example a nominally 6-berth boat (meaning, no need to convert the dinette) for 4 people, and a lot less cramped.

 

Still doesn't mean you can find space inside for a full-size folding bike though... 😉

 

Where do you fit yours on your boat?

6 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

We sometimes hired a boat that is bigger than needed for the crew size.

 

Thus plenty of space. 

 

Ps I dont know why you refered to me as a liveaboard (twice now).

 

We have never lived aboard longer than four to six weeks at a time.

I thought that's what you were from your posts... 😉

 

Would still like to know where you put your full-sized folder inside, because one certainly wouldn't fit easily inside most of the hire boats I've been on over the years -- including the "4-6 berth" Aqua one...

Edited May 10, 2023 by IanD

[Guest]

Just now, IanD said:

 

We often did the same, for example a nominally 6-berth boat (meaning, no need to convert the dinette) for 4 people, and a lot less cramped.

 

Still doesn't mean you can find space inside for a full-size folding bike though... 😉

 

Of course Ian as ever you are 100% right. Everybody else is wrong.

 

Over to you for the last word because Im bored already and you sure aint drawing me in to another exchange like last nights.

[IanD]

Just now, M_JG said:

 

Of course Ian as ever you are 100% right. Everybody else is wrong.

 

Over to you for the last word because Im bored already and you sure aint drawing me in to another exchange like last nights.

I don't want the last word, I'm just curious as to where you fit your full-sized folding bike in since that's the solution you keep suggesting.

[Hudds Lad]

3 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

I had the full size Dahon one and it was miles better (literally) than the small wheeled one I had previously. I would imagine with the wheels off it wouldnt have been much bigger than the small wheeled one folded with the wheels on. Of course you then have to store the wheels but easier off the bike.

 

 

 

Change do a reasonable looking folding MTB if you have a spare £2K, although i'd need wider bars and a dropper seat post and the stand would have to go  

Folds to 95cm x 75cm

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Change do a reasonable looking folding MTB if you have a spare £2K, although i'd need wider bars and a dropper seat post and the stand would have to go  

Folds to 95cm x 75cm

 

Bike prices have got really silly, again during and post pandemic.

 

Daughter 2 is currently looking for and im helping her find one and its a struggle to find a decent well made (non folding) one at much under a grand.

 

I see Change do a cheaper one too.

 

https://www.changebike.co.uk/products/folding-mountain-bike-df-809

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by M_JG

[Arthur Marshall]

33 minutes ago, IanD said:

I don't want the last word, I'm just curious as to where you fit your full-sized folding bike in since that's the solution you keep suggesting.

Wouldn't you stick it on the roof like everyone else?

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Wouldn't you stick it on the roof like everyone else?

Not on a hire boat if they say you can't, and not if you don't want to risk it being nicked or chucked in the cut... 😉

 

8 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

Bike prices have got really silly, again during and post pandemic.

 

Daughter 2 is currently looking for and im helping her find one and its a struggle to find a decent well made (non folding) one at much under a grand.

 

 

Depends what kind of bike she's looking for (e.g. crossbar or not). If you don't mind giving money to Halfrauds and don't want to spend too much, these are quite well made with decent brakes and gears and cheaper than comparable bikes from elsewhere, I've been happy with mine:

 

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/hybrid-bikes/carrera-subway-2-mens-hybrid-bike-2020---black---s-m-l-xl-frames-346198.html?stockInventory=undefined

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by IanD

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Wouldn't you stick it on the roof like everyone else?

 

You could but sometimes Hire companies dont like you doing this and it would be fairly insecure.

 

Inside, if you hired a boat of a suitable size it could easily be store on one of the spare/unused beds. Probably best covered to protect the interior of the boat.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

You could but sometimes Hire companies dont like you doing this and it would be fairly insecure.

 

Inside, if you hired a boat of a suitable size it could easily be store on one of the spare/unused beds. Probably best covered to protect the interior of the boat.

Usually the spare/unused beds are the dinette, unless you hire a *very* oversized boat (e.g. 6+2 berths for 4 people) -- which for 3 months is going to be expensive... 😉

[Hudds Lad]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

Depends what kind of bike she's looking for (e.g. crossbar or not). If you don't mind giving money to Halfrauds and don't want to spend too much, these are quite well made with decent brakes and gears and cheaper than comparable bikes from elsewhere, I've been happy with mine:

Halfords bikes got better when they ditched the Apollo stuff made from girders and started the Carrera range, had a couple of them for the offspring as she grew and were as well specced as most budget bikes and not too heavy. As long as you can dodge anything with twist shifters that they used to love sticking on the cheaper ones  

 

Also, under no circumstances let them build or service it for you, utter muppets most of them

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Halfords bikes got better when they ditched the Apollo stuff made from girders and started the Carrera range, had a couple of them for the offspring as she grew and were as well specced as most budget bikes and not too heavy. As long as you can dodge anything with twist shifters that they used to love sticking on the cheaper ones  

 

Also, under no circumstances let them build or service it for you, utter muppets most of them

The gears (9+2 is a good choice) and shifters (thumb lever) are decent Shimano ones, I've had no trouble with them. Halfrauds built it (with no problems) but if I needed a service I'd go to my local bike shop, not the muppets... 😉

Edited May 10, 2023 by IanD

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Halfords bikes got better when they ditched the Apollo stuff made from girders and started the Carrera range, had a couple of them for the offspring as she grew and were as well specced as most budget bikes and not too heavy. As long as you can dodge anything with twist shifters that they used to love sticking on the cheaper ones  

 

Also, under no circumstances let them build or service it for you, utter muppets most of them

 

Never had a good experience with bikes from Halfords so a bit wary but I will have a look.

 

 

[Tony1]

 

From the liveaboard perspective, the roof is not the option it might first appear for bike storage.

In my case the roof is full of solar panels, and the little space left (around the centre line ring) has to be used for 10 or 12 bags of coal between Oct and March. 

But theft would be a concern for me. I'm a lazy bugger so I use ebikes- that way I have the option to get some exercise, and also to get some assistance on longer/hilly rides if I need it. 

Also, lifting a 25kg ebike onto a roof would be a bit of a stretch (although I have gotten mine over a few gates and fences).

And you really need to protect them from rain with a cover, which of course get blown all over the roof as soon as there are some strong winds. 

I did pass a boat a while back with a bike rack (that I think was designed for use on the back of a motorhome). The bike rack was firmly attached to the stern rail, and a couple of compact folding bikes were hanging on it, well away from the sides and thus no risk of damage from lock walls etc. It looked like a really neat solution if you need to carry two bikes- even a cruiser stern is going to get a bit crowded with two folders on it. 

What is brilliant about a brompton, even though the ride is harsh, is that you just fold it up and take it inside with you- so its never in the weather.

But for me, there are just too many situations, especially in winter, when it is not very pleasant to ride. But it is, to be fair to it, an urban focused bike.

All that said, this company are producing some tweaked bromptons that might be half decent on a towpath or a rough rural lane, and this could make the brompton an acceptable all rounder:

https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/category/custom-builds/

 

 

[IanD]

45 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

From the liveaboard perspective, the roof is not the option it might first appear for bike storage.

In my case the roof is full of solar panels, and the little space left (around the centre line ring) has to be used for 10 or 12 bags of coal between Oct and March. 

But theft would be a concern for me. I'm a lazy bugger so I use ebikes- that way I have the option to get some exercise, and also to get some assistance on longer/hilly rides if I need it. 

Also, lifting a 25kg ebike onto a roof would be a bit of a stretch (although I have gotten mine over a few gates and fences).

And you really need to protect them from rain with a cover, which of course get blown all over the roof as soon as there are some strong winds. 

I did pass a boat a while back with a bike rack (that I think was designed for use on the back of a motorhome). The bike rack was firmly attached to the stern rail, and a couple of compact folding bikes were hanging on it, well away from the sides and thus no risk of damage from lock walls etc. It looked like a really neat solution if you need to carry two bikes- even a cruiser stern is going to get a bit crowded with two folders on it. 

What is brilliant about a brompton, even though the ride is harsh, is that you just fold it up and take it inside with you- so its never in the weather.

But for me, there are just too many situations, especially in winter, when it is not very pleasant to ride. But it is, to be fair to it, an urban focused bike.

All that said, this company are producing some tweaked bromptons that might be half decent on a towpath or a rough rural lane, and this could make the brompton an acceptable all rounder:

https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/category/custom-builds/

 

 

Some interesting Brompton mods there, but I suspect you'd have to lose your remaining arm and leg as well as the ones you lost to pay for the Brompton. Cycling with no arms or legs is a tad difficult... 😉

[Ianws]

4 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

Never had a good experience with bikes from Halfords so a bit wary but I will have a look.

 

 

Some of the decathlon  stuff was decent and reasonably price, at least a few years ago. My son had a  decent one. Nothing wrong with the bike, apart from being nicked from a secure locked bike room in his apartment's basement car park (it was in Salford near the city centre) 

 

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/browse/c0-sports/c1-cycling/c2-bikes/_/N-ba8g2t

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Ianws

[Arthur Marshall]

I carried a folder for years on the front deck, which is fairly big. I found I hardly used it and it's been dumped in the garage for years. An electric folder might be useful - how heavy are they to lug about? It might be a solution to get me to the station from my mooring...

[Ianws]

There is at least one in the link I just shared. I guess they are pretty heavy, hard to store and eminently nickable. And it's another drain on you battery. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Ianws
Weird typo

[Tony1]

31 minutes ago, IanD said:

Some interesting Brompton mods there, but I suspect you'd have to lose your remaining arm and leg as well as the ones you lost to pay for the Brompton. Cycling with no arms or legs is a tad difficult... 😉

 

Yep, no doubt about it, the costs are pretty naughty. But the benefits could be worthwhile, for some people. These bikes last for a a couple of decades, so its a long term decision. They have that superb build quality. 

My electric brompton is the only one that still runs fine out of the four ebikes that I've bought since moving aboard. Cheaper ebikes can be a minefield of abysmal quality. 

But this does illustrate the problem of finding the ideal bike for a liveaboard, or a person who cruises for a few months at a time.

There's no one answer, it depends on each person's needs and preferences. 

I carry 20kg of shopping sometimes for say 3-5 miles over hilly terrain, and so I insist on using ebikes to make it more pleasant. 

But there are so many variables depending on the individual - eg when do you cruise? If you're a May-Sept cruiser only, you could live happily with the compromises of a standard brompton. On the muddy days you'll get by with just walking the towpath, or maybe not bother making the trip (because the bike is taking too much of a battering from the ruts and potholes). You'll find a way around the problem of not being able to use the bike for that particular trip. 

But as you'll know, once you start spending a month or two cruising in winter, the limitations of 16 inch high pressure tyres become more apparent, and you might find there are more compromises involved than you realised. I've found many stretches of towpath that in winter were not safe on the brompton, but could be done on the bike with fatter tyres. 

I've found many rural roads (and actually many urban ones) where the brompton was battered by numerous ruts and minor holes, and in the dark or in the rain it can feel a bit sketchy. 

One of these days they'll invent a full size bike with 2 inch wide tyres that folds down to the size of the brompton. But until then, I'm still using two bikes. The Brompton for anything involving a rail/bus journey, or a posh town where the roads will probably be well maintained - or to take inside supermarkets (they fit into the large trolleys).

And the fat tyre 20 inch wheel bike when it gets rough, muddy, and wet- i.e. most of the time.  

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I carried a folder for years on the front deck, which is fairly big. I found I hardly used it and it's been dumped in the garage for years. An electric folder might be useful - how heavy are they to lug about? It might be a solution to get me to the station from my mooring...

 

My new ebike is 20kg, which is a fair bit of weight, but manageable for me at the moment.

The problem you have is not lifting them onto the deck or whatever, its more getting the bike up a flight of stone steps from the towpath and through a narrow stile onto the road, or getting them over a gate if you're using a footpath etc.

Or even lifting them into the cratch (and at that point you're lifting the 20kg with outstretched arms, which is pretty risky for your back). 

 

If weight is a priority there are some reasonably light ones coming onto the market- e.g. this one is not too dear and only weight 16kg:

 

https://www.adoebike.com/en-gb/products/ado-air-20?variant=44953452511552

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Tony1

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Yep, no doubt about it, the costs are pretty naughty. But the benefits could be worthwhile, for some people. These bikes last for a a couple of decades, so its a long term decision. They have that superb build quality. 

My electric brompton is the only one that still runs fine out of the four ebikes that I've bought since moving aboard. Cheaper ebikes can be a minefield of abysmal quality. 

But this does illustrate the problem of finding the ideal bike for a liveaboard, or a person who cruises for a few months at a time.

There's no one answer, it depends on each person's needs and preferences. 

I carry 20kg of shopping sometimes for say 3-5 miles over hilly terrain, and so I insist on using ebikes to make it more pleasant. 

But there are so many variables depending on the individual - eg when do you cruise? If you're a May-Sept cruiser only, you could live happily with the compromises of a standard brompton. On the muddy days you'll get by with just walking the towpath, or maybe not bother making the trip (because the bike is taking too much of a battering from the ruts and potholes). You'll find a way around the problem of not being able to use the bike for that particular trip. 

But as you'll know, once you start spending a month or two cruising in winter, the limitations of 16 inch high pressure tyres become more apparent, and you might find there are more compromises involved than you realised. I've found many stretches of towpath that in winter were not safe on the brompton, but could be done on the bike with fatter tyres. 

I've found many rural roads (and actually many urban ones) where the brompton was battered by numerous ruts and minor holes, and in the dark or in the rain it can feel a bit sketchy. 

One of these days they'll invent a full size bike with 2 inch wide tyres that folds down to the size of the brompton. But until then, I'm still using two bikes. The Brompton for anything involving a rail/bus journey, or a posh town where the roads will probably be well maintained - or to take inside supermarkets (they fit into the large trolleys).

And the fat tyre 20 inch wheel bike when it gets rough, muddy, and wet- i.e. most of the time.  

 

 

Don't worry, I'm under no illusions about how well a Brompton (or the Moulton I rode for many years) and muddy towpaths in winter don't go together, they do exist even round here -- but having two bikes on board (and space to put them) just won't work for me, so I'll have to put my boots on and walk and pretend I don't have a bike... 😉

[Tony1]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Don't worry, I'm under no illusions about how well a Brompton (or the Moulton I rode for many years) and muddy towpaths in winter don't go together, they do exist even round here -- but having two bikes on board (and space to put them) just won't work for me, so I'll have to put my boots on and walk and pretend I don't have a bike... 😉

 

Yes, I knew you'd be aware of the limitations, and I understand the choice of a brommie as the compromise solution. 

But I am beginning to feel that in Britain we are developing a problem with road quality. I used to commute 7 miles each way, and although it was a 700C bike, I dont remember the roads being as poor as they are now.  To be fair, I was in my 20s and 30s, and a hell of a lot fitter and stronger, so maybe I just adapted to it.

But this year, because my third cheap ebike failed (a Byocycle Boxer, supplied by decathlon), I've been forced to use the brompton exclusively for several months, and it has not been a pleasant experience.

If you like, I will send you a link to a video I did of a typical shopping trip on the brommie, demonstrating that riding a brompton could at times be a pretty challenging experience. 

If I was in your situation and I had to choose one bike, it would be incredibly difficult. The thing is, I know the brompton will not let me down.

If the road permits, it will get me there.

The cheaper ebikes are a bit of a lottery. From my own experiences, I feel that one morning you're going to switch the bike on and it'll be dead. So there is that. 

But gun to head, I would go with a 20 inch folder (with off road tyres) as my least-worst compromise, and just hope that I could get it onto a train (folded up) without being  challenged, in high summer when the bike compartments already have 6 bikes in them. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Halfords bikes got better when they ditched the Apollo stuff made from girders and started the Carrera range, had a couple of them for the offspring as she grew and were as well specced as most budget bikes and not too heavy. As long as you can dodge anything with twist shifters that they used to love sticking on the cheaper ones  

 

Also, under no circumstances let them build or service it for you, utter muppets most of them

 

Another plus for Halfords is that you have a nationwide network of stores that you can wheel your faulty bike into, and ask for it to be fixed. 

Chinese imports on ebay and amazon may be cheap, but I've found out the hard way that if something major fails, the supplier has usually ceased trading by the time you contact them, or just doesnt answer your emails.  

Halfords will generally tend to use the cheaper end of the components range, typically Shimano Tourney and the like- but they are functional, and you can keep them adjusted and working fairly well. That said, the brakes I've found to be a bit disappointing on the cheap models, but that was on ebikes which are pretty heavy- maybe they work better on lighter bikes. 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Tony1

[BillD]

Hi all

 

OP here.  Many thanks for all the comments and advice. 

 

On our last boat we had cheap folding bikes with 16" wheels, or possibly slightly larger.  With folding pedals and quick release on handlebars and seat, they were compact and easy to fold.  In travel bags we could fit them into the really deep lockers under the Pullman dinette seats.  To keep ready for use I could fit one under the cratch table (which was almost always down) and another one in the semi-trad on the side without a locker.

 

They were really good for lock-wheeling, repeat visits to shops and laundrettes.  Little wheels were not the best on towpaths away from locks but rear suspension helped. Didn't hit much mud; the worst was when crab-apples were covering the path - it was like riding over very bumpy ball-bearings.  They'd shoot out sideways as far as the middle of the canal!

 

If there's room on the boat we hire, I'll buy a cheap 20" folder from Argus or Halfords and a bag. I like the look of this one https://www.halfords.com/bikes/folding-bikes/apollo-tuck-folding-bike-127104.html    I'd sell it on eBay at the end of the trip.

 

By the way, is it possible to change the Thread title to e.g. "Which three month hire in northern canals/folding bikes/bike storage"?? 

[Tony1]

6 hours ago, BillD said:

Hi all

 

OP here.  Many thanks for all the comments and advice. 

 

On our last boat we had cheap folding bikes with 16" wheels, or possibly slightly larger.  With folding pedals and quick release on handlebars and seat, they were compact and easy to fold.  In travel bags we could fit them into the really deep lockers under the Pullman dinette seats.  To keep ready for use I could fit one under the cratch table (which was almost always down) and another one in the semi-trad on the side without a locker.

 

They were really good for lock-wheeling, repeat visits to shops and laundrettes.  Little wheels were not the best on towpaths away from locks but rear suspension helped. Didn't hit much mud; the worst was when crab-apples were covering the path - it was like riding over very bumpy ball-bearings.  They'd shoot out sideways as far as the middle of the canal!

 

If there's room on the boat we hire, I'll buy a cheap 20" folder from Argus or Halfords and a bag. I like the look of this one https://www.halfords.com/bikes/folding-bikes/apollo-tuck-folding-bike-127104.html    I'd sell it on eBay at the end of the trip.

 

By the way, is it possible to change the Thread title to e.g. "Which three month hire in northern canals/folding bikes/bike storage"?? 

 

Apologies for turning this into a bike thread! Its a bit of a hobby horse of mine as I've spent almost 3 years looking for the ideal bike- and ended up with two of them! 

I hate to pile on the brompton as it has some great qualities, but one thing I must add is that it won't hold normal size panniers- the rear rack is so low that 20 litre panniers drag on the ground frequently, and your heels scrape against the front of the bags when pedalling.

The biggest panniers I can fit on mine are ones intended for use on a front rack, they hold about 12 litres each, which is not a lot. So I frequently have to use a large rucksack for shopping with the brommie, and as we know, its safer and more comfortable to carry the weight lower down. 

All that said, I've seen touring brompton riders rig up a rucksack so that it sits on the rear rack, with the top attached to the seat or the seatpost- so there are possible solutions out there if you dont mind some farkling around. 

 

[BillD]

8 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Apologies for turning this into a bike thread! Its a bit of a hobby horse of mine as I've spent almost 3 years looking for the ideal bike- and ended up with two of them!   .... 

 

No worries, there's lots of good stuff here and it's helped me refine my bike specs.  I'd just like it to be visible to future browsers/searcher, hence the wish to refine the Thread title.

To that end, once I've decided on hirer & bike, I intend to bullet point (in a positive way) what I've found/been told about the hirers and bike(s). 

[IanD]

54 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Apologies for turning this into a bike thread! Its a bit of a hobby horse of mine as I've spent almost 3 years looking for the ideal bike- and ended up with two of them! 

I hate to pile on the brompton as it has some great qualities, but one thing I must add is that it won't hold normal size panniers- the rear rack is so low that 20 litre panniers drag on the ground frequently, and your heels scrape against the front of the bags when pedalling.

The biggest panniers I can fit on mine are ones intended for use on a front rack, they hold about 12 litres each, which is not a lot. So I frequently have to use a large rucksack for shopping with the brommie, and as we know, its safer and more comfortable to carry the weight lower down. 

All that said, I've seen touring brompton riders rig up a rucksack so that it sits on the rear rack, with the top attached to the seat or the seatpost- so there are possible solutions out there if you dont mind some farkling around. 

 

 

Why not use the front carrier mount on the Brompton -- not big enough? For sure, if you want to carry a lot through a swamp, it's the wrong bike... 😉

Edited May 11, 2023 by IanD

[Tony1]

24 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Why not use the front carrier mount on the Brompton -- not big enough?

 

(still beautifully engineered including folding, still less than ideal on muddy towpaths...)

 

There are some very nice (and expensive) bags for the front mounting, but sadly since mine is the electric model, that space is taken up by a mounting that supports the battery, held inside a small bag.

I bought the larger size battery bag, so I can get maybe 15 litres of stuff in there (stuffed in around the battery), but there is I think about a 10kg weight limit on all of those front mountings, so its not a solution for a weeks shop. You could add a rixen and kaul klickfix seatpost clamp, that will allow a 20 litre shopping bag to be attached to the seatpost.

So by using maybe 4 smaller bags combined, you can have 50-60 litres of shopping space held around the bike- but that can start to feel like a faff. Many times I just grab the large rucksack to save time.

And there's that annoying situation where you take enough bags to hold the stuff that you anticipate buying, but on the journey you see something else that you'd like to buy,  but you have no luggage space left for it.

So I do try to leave some contingency luggage space nowadays.

But people do get around the shopping challenge in different ways, as you'll already know. E.g. many people spending 3 months aboard or living on a boat will use the supermarket delivery service, and get their shopping delivered to a local pub car park, or even a bridge (so I've heard). 

I've still not tried this service whilst on the boat- I remember when I tried it from home a few years ago I received a lot of very short dated stuff, and on a boat that is worse than useless. I like to get to the supermarket in person, so that I can reach right to the back of the shelf and pick out the longest-dated items. 

But if shop deliveries work for you, then the brompton becomes more of a single-item or quick-dash ad-hoc shopping tool, or for local exploring. 

But here's a live scenario:  I'm in Manchester now, and I need to go to a launderette about a mile away (I carry the laundry in a very large rucksack).

I cant take the 20 inch ebike because of fear it will be stolen if chained outside the laundry- so in this case, when in a big city with typical big city bike theft problems, I have to take the brompton because I know I wont be challenged if I take it inside the launderette with me. 

So in this case it has to be the brommie, and I can put up with some rough surfaces for a one mile ride.

Here in the big city, because it can go indoors anywhere, the brompton has become the mandatory choice for any bike trips. Any other ebike probably couldn't be safely left outdoors in any city centre location, even with a good chain. 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Tony1