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Moving the gulper


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Hope this isn't a silly question but I don't understand enough about pumps to work this out.   My Gulper is about 2/3 along a 3m run of hose from the shower drain to the skin fitting.  the filter is immediately 'upstream' of the pump i.e. between shower and pump. The skin fitting is about 60 cm above the gulper pump.  All works fine.   I'm refitting the bathroom and need to move the gulper and filter as a single unit.   If I move them  further away from the skin fitting (i.,e so the new hose length is about 1.5 m from the pump to the skin fitting) will there be any loss of performance regarding pumping or draining?   What happens if I move the pump closer to the skin fitting but move the filter closer to the shower drain?  TIA

 

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It's unlikely to matter. Most of the work is in lifting the water from floor to gunwale height; the resistance of an extra 1m of smooth pipe is negligible wherever you put it.

 

All other things being equal, closer to the shower is preferable because it'll prime quicker - less air in the pipe before the pump. Also less pipe before the filter at risk of being clogged.

 

Lower is better, if the pump is too high above the drain it won't prime at all depending on how strong a vacuum it can create. Probably not an issue with your Gulper wherever it is.

Edited by Francis Herne
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Never used a filter😱

It's important to have a longer length of pipe between the shower and the pump than between the pump and skin fitting.

This means that when it drains back, which it will do, the water stays in the pipe and doesn't drain back into the shower.

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8 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

All other things being equal, closer to the shower is preferable because it'll prime quicker - less air in the pipe before the pump. A 

I disagree and thing there should be a good length of hose to act as ullage to hold any water that may creep back through the pump while its off

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40 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I disagree and thing there should be a good length of hose to act as ullage to hold any water that may creep back through the pump while its off

 

 

Same here. The water in the outlet pipe where it rises to the skin fitting will (rather than 'may') seep back through the pump after it has been turned off, so the volume of the pipe from the shower tray to the pump needs to be big enough to contain this volume of water or it will back up into the shower tray. 

 

I'd also ditch the filter. Why would you want a filter? The whole point of a Gulper is that it doesn't need one. 

 

 

Edited by MtB
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46 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Never used a filter😱

It's important to have a longer length of pipe between the shower and the pump than between the pump and skin fitting.

This means that when it drains back, which it will do, the water stays in the pipe and doesn't drain back into the shower.

 

39 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I disagree and thing there should be a good length of hose to act as ullage to hold any water that may creep back through the pump while its off

I agree with @Loddon to not use a filter. What's the point? It is somewhere for hair, grit, soap and all the other nastiness that goes down the shower to become trapped and bung up. The valves in a gulper are perfectly OK at coping with this stuff. Had a gulper on my boat for 16 years now. No filter. Still working fine.

I disagree with @Loddon and agree with @ditchcrawler; longer length of hose between shower drain and gulper. Shorter length between gulper and hull skin fitting.

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Thanks for all your expert responses, especially the advice relating to the water seeping back through the pump.   I currently have a flojet R4195 143A, which, as I can't find anywhere on any system, I assume that Noah installed it in his ark.   This has a separate in line filter which, since the introduction of a lint trap on the shower trap, only needs cleaning about every month or so.  Nevertheless, this is quite the task as the clear, round plastic top normally needs the oil filter wrench to move it, but once free and cleaned, the system works faultlessly for about a month.   I might try ditching the filter and see how the Flojet manages on its own with all the crud from the shower directly.   Safe boating.

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A gulper is not a generic term for a shower pump. In canal circles, people assume you are specifically referring to a gulper pump made by Whale. This has the clog free valves that make it such a reliable pump for emptying boat showers and not needing a filter. We were assuming you were talking about a Whale gulper, not some Flojet pump, so the expert and inexpert responses will need reconsidering in light of the new information.

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7 hours ago, Cal Ando said:

Thanks for all your expert responses, especially the advice relating to the water seeping back through the pump.   I currently have a flojet R4195 143A, which, as I can't find anywhere on any system, I assume that Noah installed it in his ark.   This has a separate in line filter which, since the introduction of a lint trap on the shower trap, only needs cleaning about every month or so.  Nevertheless, this is quite the task as the clear, round plastic top normally needs the oil filter wrench to move it, but once free and cleaned, the system works faultlessly for about a month.   I might try ditching the filter and see how the Flojet manages on its own with all the crud from the shower directly.   Safe boating.

 

Please do not use it without the filter. I am sure that what you have is really a domestic water pump with three or five small pumping chambers, each with two small, non-self cleaning valves. Without the filter, I can almost guarantee a valve or valves will jamb open, so it loses pumping volume.

 

AS others have said, fit a Whale Gulper that has one big pumping chamber and self clearing valves.

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Back along when we had a boat there was no seepage back through the gulper when it was brand new and the valve likewise, but as small bits of detritus gathered there it would start to drain back, at first I would clean it regularly but soon gave up and accepted back seepage, wasn't a prob really, just me trying to achieve perfection 😊

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Im going to get rid of my Flojet with filter as it has stopped removing waste water in spite of filter being clean.

On eBay there is a Gulper for Narrowboats, 12v, cheaper than same for yachts, what special thing is a N B gulper?

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13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Im going to get rid of my Flojet with filter as it has stopped removing waste water in spite of filter being clean.

On eBay there is a Gulper for Narrowboats, 12v, cheaper than same for yachts, what special thing is a N B gulper?

Are you comparing like for like? There is a gulper 220 and a gulper 320.

 

ETA. There are also 24V and 12V versions, which may not be the same cost.

Edited by rusty69
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21 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Im going to get rid of my Flojet with filter as it has stopped removing waste water in spite of filter being clean.

On eBay there is a Gulper for Narrowboats, 12v, cheaper than same for yachts, what special thing is a N B gulper?

 

I once bought a Whale Gulper 220 from eBay for £80 but that was years ago and things are more expensive these days.

 

Just make sure you're buying the Whale Gulper 220. 12v - assuming your boat has a 12v system rather than 24v. From memory I think it requires a 5a fuse so check what fuse you've got in your current pump installation.

 

This is the cheapest one I can see on eBay at the moment.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295649646248?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=mGVN6HVbTHa&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SV_sF0T7SiS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited by blackrose
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1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I once bought a Whale Gulper 220 from eBay for £80 but that was years ago and things are more expensive these days.

 

Just make sure you're buying the Whale Gulper 220. 12v - assuming your boat has a 12v system rather than 24v. From memory I think it requires a 5a fuse so check what fuse you've got in your current pump installation.

I bought one in 2017 for £86 to use as a second bilge pump. 

Or £103 if you dont' mind a 10 day delivery

 

https://www.cactusnav.com/whale-gulper-shower-pump-p-21788.html

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16 hours ago, Cal Ando said:

Thanks for all your expert responses, especially the advice relating to the water seeping back through the pump.   I currently have a flojet R4195 143A, which, as I can't find anywhere on any system, I assume that Noah installed it in his ark.   This has a separate in line filter which, since the introduction of a lint trap on the shower trap, only needs cleaning about every month or so.  Nevertheless, this is quite the task as the clear, round plastic top normally needs the oil filter wrench to move it, but once free and cleaned, the system works faultlessly for about a month.   I might try ditching the filter and see how the Flojet manages on its own with all the crud from the shower directly.   Safe boating.

It will be like mine Viz. u/s

Mine worked as you describe for quite a few years but no more.

I found I could get the filter housing of if I lay on the loo floor and reach two hands in to the small cupboard where the filter was housed.

I'd avoid using tools if possible, I tried plumbers grease but that did not seal the washer thing.

The filter is currently clean but pump is not shifting the waste.

I once had a shower guard with fine mesh which help a lot.

 

Edited by LadyG
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