Horse shortage

[oboat]

Just been looking at a TV program, on railways, first steam engine and all that stuff, which suggested that the principal reason steam power was developed was due to a shortage of horse power due to the Napoleonic Wars.
Much in the canal world is blamed on the Napoleonic Wars however I can't recall ever having heard that said before in relation to canals.  
Any comments?
Note:
I am aware that other animals were used on occasion, but assumed it was expediency rather than an out and out shortage of suitable horses. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by oboat

[matty40s]

I blame brexit.

[magnetman]

I blame Findus. 

[Pluto]

All the contemporary books on canals I have read suggest that one of the reasons for investing in canals was to reduce the number of horses and men then in use on road transport. This would allow them to be used in agriculture and thus improve the food supply to the growing population living in towns. As one horse could easily pull 50 tons on inland waterways, while they would be lucky to move one ton by road, canals could have been the cause of fewer horses being required, though the increase in tonnages being carried has to be set against this. Most railway expansion also took place at least 25 years after the Napoleonic wars had ended, by which time I would have thought the horse population would be well on the way to recovery. After the 1st WW it does not seem to have been worthwhile returning many army horses to Britain, and they were left for the French to eat. (That's a joke, honest)

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Pluto said:

All the contemporary books on canals I have read suggest that one of the reasons for investing in canals was to reduce the number of horses and men then in use on road transport. This would allow them to be used in agriculture After the 1st WW it does not seem to have been worthwhile returning many army horses to Britain, and they were left for the French to eat. (That's a joke, honest)

Sadly, the horses that were used in WW1, for Cavalry Regiments, and general transportation were remounts taken from their rural homes in Britain, and never returned. So its likely many battlefield survivors did end up on the dinner table. No doubt agricultural production would have been severely disrupted, and food would be in short supply.

Edited May 3, 2023 by LadyG

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Sadly, the horses that were used in WW1, for Cavalry Regiments, and general transportation were remounts taken from their rural homes in Britain, and never returned. So its likely many battlefield survivors did end up on the dinner table. No doubt agricultural production would have been severely disrupted, and food would be in short supply.

 

They were euthanised at the end of the conflict to save the 'aggro' of bringing them back to Britain.

[Fender151]

I believe that a high  proportion of the war horses that survived the war action, sold to French butchers for the meat trade.

 

[Captain Pegg]

4 hours ago, oboat said:

Just been looking at a TV program, on railways, first steam engine and all that stuff, which suggested that the principal reason steam power was developed was due to a shortage of horse power due to the Napoleonic Wars.
Much in the canal world is blamed on the Napoleonic Wars however I can't recall ever having heard that said before in relation to canals.  
Any comments?
Note:
I am aware that other animals were used on occasion, but assumed it was expediency rather than an out and out shortage of suitable horses. 

 

Yes. In the case of the Worcester & Birmingham canal the use of pairs of mules or donkeys was to enable them to be transported through the tunnels.

[oboat]

47 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Yes. In the case of the Worcester & Birmingham canal the use of pairs of mules or donkeys was to enable them to be transported through the tunnels.

Very interesting. But you say yes, then give a reason why it would NOT be a problem?

[Captain Pegg]

17 minutes ago, oboat said:

Very interesting. But you say yes, then give a reason why it would NOT be a problem?

The “yes” was agreement to your premise that where horses weren’t used it was due to expediency rather than shortage of horses.

[oboat]

Just now, Captain Pegg said:

The “yes” was agreement to your premise that where horses weren’t used it was due to expediency rather than shortage of horses.

Understand. As a regular on the W&BC I can see it would have been a brilliant solution to save time at the ramps.

3 hours ago, Pluto said:

All the contemporary books on canals I have read suggest that one of the reasons for investing in canals was to reduce the number of horses and men then in use on road transport. This would allow them to be used in agriculture and thus improve the food supply to the growing population living in towns. As one horse could easily pull 50 tons on inland waterways, while they would be lucky to move one ton by road, canals could have been the cause of fewer horses being required, though the increase in tonnages being carried has to be set against this. Most railway expansion also took place at least 25 years after the Napoleonic wars had ended, by which time I would have thought the horse population would be well on the way to recovery. After the 1st WW it does not seem to have been worthwhile returning many army horses to Britain, and they were left for the French to eat. (That's a joke, honest)

Surrey Iron Railway Act. 1801.
End of the Napoleonic War Nov 1815.
Murdock was ignored the same year.
Rainhill Trials 1829. 

I was really thinking about the causation rather than the effect?

A bit like a ball gathering speed. 

 

[Pluto]

10 hours ago, oboat said:

Understand. As a regular on the W&BC I can see it would have been a brilliant solution to save time at the ramps.

Surrey Iron Railway Act. 1801.
End of the Napoleonic War Nov 1815.
Murdock was ignored the same year.
Rainhill Trials 1829. 

I was really thinking about the causation rather than the effect?

A bit like a ball gathering speed. 

Canals solved the problem of carrying heavy bulk cargoes economically, but could only go where there was a sufficient water supply; this limits their potential. They did encourage economic development, though that was not necessarily to their benefit. For textiles, apart from low-lying Manchester, water power remained a major source of power until the development of the small horizontal condensing mill engine in the mid 19th century. Many textile mills were thus up valleys where canals could not reach, so road transport continued to be used. Cloth was transported in small, high-value bundles, which made it ideal for road transport. North of Manchester, the turnpike roads to that town from East Lancashire developed in the early 19th century as the route was almost impossible for canal building. The Haslingden Canal is an excellent example of the problems.

 

Canals formed the basis upon which industrial development could take place. On general goods traffic, railways could not compete economically, and it was the rapid development of passenger traffic which allowed them to survive. The average load on a goods train did not go above around 60tons until almost the end of the 19th century, hardly a system which could compete with good water transport. There were  areas where railways were important, such as in the NE coalfield, which was unsuitable for canal-building. In general, the early canal projects, promoted by local merchants and industrialists to improve the local economy continued to be successful until the 1st WW, while those built during the Canal Mania with the idea of making money from transport tended to be failures.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Cows are just short horses. The tall horse is at the back looking over the heads of the short horses.

https://www.publicdomainpictures.net/en/view-image.php?image=91713&picture=herd-of-cows-and-horses-pasture

[Heartland]

As canals could be blocked by ice there was an argument that plateways such as the Surrey Iron Railway could use a horse to carry goods along it all year round. The Surrey Iron Railway went towards Croydon and there was a dock and lock connected with the Thames.

 

Whether the Napoleonic Wars had any effect on horse usage on British Canals, or other navigable waterways, is a debatable point. More serious effects were felt afterward with the economic downturn, several carriers by water were made bankrupt.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Heartland

[rivergate]

I have a few cobs they can buy if that helps...? ...will get them out of the garden.....

[TheBiscuits]

On 04/05/2023 at 10:51, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Cows are just short horses.

 

There's no need to call them that, and your autocorrect is getting worse! 🤣

[Heartland]

Horses were used for driving some types of milling equipment and also were once commonly used to drive a gin ("oss gin in the Black Country) where miners and minerals were taken from a pit. These gins were also to be found on some early canal construction projects.

 

 

[magnetman]

One of man's most adaptable quadrupeds.