Rope round prop, consequences?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Hah. I see your fender and raise you a grappling hook.

 

An official CRT volly one just to add insult to injury!

length of chain on the end of the rope on The Cam

[rusty69]

A cam chain? 

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I find it unlikely that a rope would stop the prop and shaft so quickly that it would do any mechanical damage, unlike a rock or log, but the torque reaction on the engine may have damaged an engine mount so the engine and shaft are now out of alignment. Probably unlikely, but worth a close inspection. 

 

Because ropes bring the load on the system comparatively slowly compared with a log or rock, I doubt it would have damaged the drive plate unless the plate was in poor condition before the incident, but one can never be 100% sure.

 

If forced to give an opinion based on what you have said, I would suggest it may be that your senses have been heightened by the incident, so you are now more aware of vibrations etc that were always present.

I think you are correct, I've had a tootle about and all seems normal

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, dmr said:

When I got our rope round the prop (just the once as Arthur says) it wound really tight round the shaft between the back of the prop and the stern tube. In this case it could put quite an outward pull on shaft, could this have moved or broken something?

Of course that was my worry, but the rope was quite slack, so I think I got off with it. 

Compared to the duvet which was welded to the prop shaft, and a four day job, this was easy peasy.

The water was quite cold even with a kettle of hot water. Washed hands and applied anti viral cleanser.

Edited April 27, 2023 by LadyG

[MikeHing]

Had a rope round prop after assistant lock keeper on Thames dropped our stern rope and it wound around prop and stopped the engine dead. All seemed to be OK but engine ran progressively rough. Some hours later I  had a closer look at engine and could see that a rear engine mount bracket on Barus 1500 had cracked. This too was a PRM120 gearbox. Got it welded and next day other rear mount bracket failed. It wasn't obvious on initial inspection that there was a problem with the mounts.

[Mike Todd]

I think that anyone who believes that any particular incident will never happen to them, is a disaster waiting to happen, after all, this is what has happened with the H&S culture which forced many a complacent person to be aware of not only what might go wrong and how to avoid it, but also what to do in the event of it happening.

 

Anyone who had never had a rope around the prop, or perhaps even anything else like a jacket, has - in my opinion - not really boated the whole network. In some sections this is almost part of daily life! Best, perhaps, for some boaters to stay on their pontoon for life!

 

If someone asks for advice after an incident that has already happened, the only effect of saying that they should never have let it happen, is to increase your unwarranted smugness rating. It is like some one saying, when asked the best way to San Jose, is to say that (traditionally!) they would not start from here. It has happened - get on with life. At most, give advice on fool proof ways of prevention in the future. 

 

In this case, we have no information about how the incident happened, so some of the comments, based purely on supposition, are very much unwarranted.

[Midnight]

I woudn't worry a few years ago in Brighouse Midnight's prop got embedded in a log which jammed the prop against the counter. It didn't stall the engine, which emitted lots of black smoke before Mrs Midnight realised and pressed the stop button. At first I feared the worst but it seems likely that the PRM gearbox has some kind of slipping clutch to protect against damage. ??Tony Brooks??

[Tracy D'arth]

13 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I think that anyone who believes that any particular incident will never happen to them, is a disaster waiting to happen, after all, this is what has happened with the H&S culture which forced many a complacent person to be aware of not only what might go wrong and how to avoid it, but also what to do in the event of it happening.

 

Anyone who had never had a rope around the prop, or perhaps even anything else like a jacket, has - in my opinion - not really boated the whole network. In some sections this is almost part of daily life! Best, perhaps, for some boaters to stay on their pontoon for life!

 

If someone asks for advice after an incident that has already happened, the only effect of saying that they should never have let it happen, is to increase your unwarranted smugness rating. It is like some one saying, when asked the best way to San Jose, is to say that (traditionally!) they would not start from here. It has happened - get on with life. At most, give advice on fool proof ways of prevention in the future. 

 

In this case, we have no information about how the incident happened, so some of the comments, based purely on supposition, are very much unwarranted.

I have boated most of the UK canals.

I have had all sorts of rubbish on the prop from anoraks to yashmaks.  Never a zebra though. The worst are tyres I find.

Had bits of other persons ropes and fenders too.

I am not smug but have never got one of my own ropes on.  Its a simple case of care and common sense. There are some who have neither.

[Jon57]

22 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I woudn't worry a few years ago in Brighouse Midnight's prop got embedded in a log which jammed the prop against the counter. It didn't stall the engine, which emitted lots of black smoke before Mrs Midnight realised and pressed the stop button. At first I feared the worst but it seems likely that the PRM gearbox has some kind of slipping clutch to protect against damage. ??Tony Brooks??

Similar incident at tixall l lock. Lister jp3 blackstone box 2 to 1 reduction box 24 inch prop. Stop the engine dead. Luckily managed to get into the edged. Log firmly wedged under the counter. Took a bit of removing .luckily no damage to the gearbox.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Jon57
Spelling

[Captain Pegg]

12 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have boated most of the UK canals.

I have had all sorts of rubbish on the prop from anoraks to yashmaks.  Never a zebra though. The worst are tyres I find.

Had bits of other persons ropes and fenders too.

I am not smug but have never got one of my own ropes on.  Its a simple case of care and common sense. There are some who have neither.

 

You can never stop all adverse incidents purely through care and common sense. That's beyond the capability of human behaviour. These sorts of things happen when extraneous factors come into play and behavourial habits and norms go out of the window.

 

For 99.8% of the time I have owned my boat it has been fitted with two centre lines that are not long enough to reach the prop. Yet I have still managed to end up with one of my own centre lines around the prop. 

 

[1st ade]

32 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I woudn't worry a few years ago in Brighouse Midnight's prop got embedded in a log which jammed the prop against the counter. It didn't stall the engine, which emitted lots of black smoke before Mrs Midnight realised and pressed the stop button. At first I feared the worst but it seems likely that the PRM gearbox has some kind of slipping clutch to protect against damage. ??Tony Brooks??

I've a vague recollection (years ago) of mum and dad picking up an interior sprung mattress on the prop. As they struggled to remove it, a gentleman (I use the term wisely) walked past and asked what the problem was? When they explained, he replied, "I'm the managing director of that firm 20 yards up the road from the next bridge, tell them I sent you to borrow a set of bolt croppers". They did, it worked, they returned the Bolt Croppers and the firm refused a donation. Thanks to "A Gentleman"

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have boated most of the UK canals.

I have had all sorts of rubbish on the prop from anoraks to yashmaks.  Never a zebra though. The worst are tyres I find.

Had bits of other persons ropes and fenders too.

I am not smug but have never got one of my own ropes on.  Its a simple case of care and common sense. There are some who have neither.

Two statements that seem incompatible, from somebody who has form for repeatedly claiming their boating superiority over certain other posters... 😉

[enigmatic]

Drive plate failure within a couple of weeks is a likely outcome. Don't ask me how I know!

 

A failing drive plate might make a lot of noise, but you'll know when it's properly failed because the engine will rotate and the gearbox won't...

[Tony Brooks]

52 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I woudn't worry a few years ago in Brighouse Midnight's prop got embedded in a log which jammed the prop against the counter. It didn't stall the engine, which emitted lots of black smoke before Mrs Midnight realised and pressed the stop button. At first I feared the worst but it seems likely that the PRM gearbox has some kind of slipping clutch to protect against damage. ??Tony Brooks??

 

The hydraulic PRMs have oil operated multi-plate clutches, and I would expect them to slip in those circumstances. The smaller mechanical ones have cone clutches that are, arguably, less prone to slip, but probably would unless they also have a sliding dog clutch ring as will (aka synchromesh units), in which case they would not slip. The PRM 120 manual suggest they only use simple cone clutches.

[Tracy D'arth]

29 minutes ago, IanD said:

Two statements that seem incompatible, from somebody who has form for repeatedly claiming their boating superiority over certain other posters... 😉

?  Have you taken your pills today?

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

?  Have you taken your pills today?

Yes thank you -- have you? Maybe not, you do keep on being smugly superior and needlessly niggling at certain other posters... 😉

Edited April 28, 2023 by IanD

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Yes thank you -- have you? Maybe not, you do keep on being smugly superior and needlessly niggling at certain other posters... 😉

I caught it from you.

 

Its difficult being perfect.

 

The lady in question has already proved to the world that she should not be on a boat on her own.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I caught it from you.

 

Its difficult being perfect.

 

The lady in question has already proved to the world that she should not be on a boat on her own.

Which is no reason to keep repeatedly digging at her -- unless you want to be accused of bullying... 😉

Edited April 28, 2023 by IanD

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have boated most of the UK canals.

I have had all sorts of rubbish on the prop from anoraks to yashmaks.  Never a zebra though. The worst are tyres I find.

Had bits of other persons ropes and fenders too.

I am not smug but have never got one of my own ropes on.  Its a simple case of care and common sense. There are some who have neither.

 

It's a bit like falling in. I don't do it. It's nothing to do with smugness, quite the opposite in fact. I am deeply aware of how easily it happens and take great care ALL THE TIME boating not to do it. Especially as a single hander. 

 

I have always considered that one day it will happen and I try to keep a weather eye on my surroundings so I know where I will head to get out when the fateful day arrives.

 

I realised how hard getting out can be when I once met someone soaking wet at T&K marina who had fallen in and said they spent 20 minutes swimming amongst the moored boats trying to find a ladder. 

 

 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

It's a bit like falling in. I don't do it

I didn't fall in for over 20 years, until a few months back.I don't recommend it. If you are going to fall in, I suggest doing so in the summer months; not only is it warmer, there will likely be more people about to pull you out.

 

 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

I didn't fall in for over 20 years, until a few months back.I don't recommend it. If you are going to fall in, I suggest doing so in the summer months; not only is it warmer, there will likely be more people about to pull you out.

 

And *definitely* don't fall in through the ice on Xmas day, even if there are people around... 😞

Edited April 28, 2023 by IanD

[rusty69]

Just now, IanD said:

And *definitely* don't fall in through the ice, on Xmas day... 😞

Erm,I did break the ice, as it happens, along with my spare ribs.

[IanD]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Erm,I did break the ice, as it happens, along with my spare ribs.

You were on the way back from the local Chinese with a takeaway then? 😉

[rusty69]

Just now, IanD said:

You were on the way back from the local Chinese with a takeaway then? 😉

At least my sweet and sour pork balls remained intact.

[Tracy D'arth]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

At least my sweet and sour pork balls remained intact.

Obviously prawn crackers!

Edited April 28, 2023 by Tracy D'arth