BSC for inboard generator

[waterworks]

I have a workshop on my boat under canvas with a self contained 6 kva Diesel generator not linked to the fuel or electrical system, exhaust just goes over the gunwhale when I use it,  what BSC rules apply to it ?

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, waterworks said:

I have a workshop on my boat under canvas with a self contained 6 kva Diesel generator not linked to the fuel or electrical system, exhaust just goes over the gunwhale when I use it,  what BSC rules apply to it ?

 

The rules will depend on the examiner - they all just interpret the rules to suit the day of the week. Irrespective of what the rules say, the only way to get a 'pass' is to ask the examiner that you intend to use what he wants to see.

It will then probably fail at the next BSS examination.

[MtB]

Also depends on what phase the moon is in. 

 

I think maybe you didn't know that...

 

 

 

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

Also depends on what phase the moon is in. 

 

I think maybe you didn't know that...

 

 

 

It's always waning when ours is done. I usually have an umbrella on standby just in case.

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, waterworks said:

I have a workshop on my boat under canvas with a self contained 6 kva Diesel generator not linked to the fuel or electrical system, exhaust just goes over the gunwhale when I use it,  what BSC rules apply to it ?

How does a diesel generator work if it doesn't have a fuel or electrical system?

I can't see any reason why the full set of BSS rules for fuel systems, diesel engines, electrical systems and engine exhausts would not apply.

A portable generator just dropped in the boat should be an automatic fail. And an exhaust which is led over the gunwale only when in use sounds like the sort of bodge that lay behind the deaths on the Arniston, albeit that diesel fumes are not as dangerous as petrol fumes.

[magnetman]

Just indicate that the hold is a no go area and full of sensitive business related equipment such as drugs, immigrants, Russian bushels or loads of boxes and the BS man might not even go there. 

 

 

[MtB]

Just tell the BSS bod you lift the 150kg 6KVA genny out onto the bank whenever you use it, obviously. 

 

I get people assuring me they always open a window when they fire up their statutory-gas-safety-check-failing gas boilers too, so they are fine really. 

 

Yeah, right.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

You'd wonder 'what planet' these people are on to actually need to ask the question.

[ditchcrawler]

14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You'd wonder 'what planet' these people are on to actually need to ask the question.

So what BSS rules apply then?

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So what BSS rules apply then?

All the standard BSS rules that apply to a fixed diesel propulsion engine and its associated systems.

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So what BSS rules apply then?

 

I could suggest some - but it will depend on the individual examiner as to which he thinks apply, so my thoughts are 'worthless' as far as passing the BSS examination.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I could suggest some - but it will depend on the individual examiner as to which he thinks apply, so my thoughts are 'worthless' as far as passing the BSS examination.

The only portable stuff they talk about if petrol powered gennies, gas appliances and outboards. On an inboard diesel engine they don't check the exhaust actually goes outside the boat and the fuel tank would be too small for the regs, so probably only flexible hoses. That of coarse is just a guess 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

The only portable stuff they talk about if petrol powered gennies, gas appliances and outboards. On an inboard diesel engine they don't check the exhaust actually goes outside the boat and the fuel tank would be too small for the regs, so probably only flexible hoses. That of coarse is just a guess 

 

My 1st thought would be (at apparently 150kgs) it would would not really be classed as a portable appliance, particularly as they say a 'portable' generator should not be run on board, and neither should it be 'installed'. So if it is 'portable' then it should be lifted off the boat and if it is run on the boat it should be a properly installed generator and not a 'portable generator' with a modified exhaust pipe (for example) draped over the side.

 

You must decide which it is : Portable or permanently, and correctly, installed

 

From the BSS Guidance for use of generators :

 

The BSS says that if boaters want to use generators, these three basic bullet points should be followed: -

• Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.

• Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to the boat’s doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
• Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

From the BSS Guidance for use of generators :

 

The BSS says that if boaters want to use generators, these three basic bullet points should be followed: -

• Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.

• Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to the boat’s doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
• Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

We know that makes real good sense, but in its self doesn't make it a BSS fail or pass which is what the OP is worried about. I supose its a bit like there Chinese diesel heaters that are self contained.  I am interested to see what the actual outcome is.

[Slim]

I had a cocooned diesel generator installed in a cockpit locker for the last 5 or 6 BSS inspections. All passed with no issues or advisories. I always mentioned it and every examiner seemed to develop a hearing failure. One did look at the connecting fuel lines, said OK and that anything inside the cocoon was down to the generator manufacturer. Not saying what's right only what happened.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Slim said:

I had a cocooned diesel generator installed in a cockpit locker for the last 5 or 6 BSS inspections. All passed with no issues or advisories. I always mentioned it and every examiner seemed to develop a hearing failure. One did look at the connecting fuel lines, said OK and that anything inside the cocoon was down to the generator manufacturer. Not saying what's right only what happened.

 

I think the problem will be is it a portable generator or is it installed ?

 

You say you had the Cocooned generator INSTALLED  in a locker so there should be no reason why that should fail.

 

A diesel (big frame ?) generator simply sat in the hold of the boat under canvas with an exhaust pipe 'hanging'over the gunwale is NOT installed correctly.

 

As I said in post No2 the rules will be whatever the examiner decides they are, so ask the examiner that you plan to use what he will accept / expect.

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think the problem will be is it a portable generator or is it installed ?

 

You say you had the Cocooned generator INSTALLED  in a locker so there should be no reason why that should fail.

 

A diesel (big frame ?) generator simply sat in the hold of the boat under canvas with an exhaust pipe 'hanging'over the gunwale is NOT installed correctly.

 

As I said in post No2 the rules will be whatever the examiner decides they are, so ask the examiner that you plan to use what he will accept / expect.

sounds the best bet.

 

Take the exhaust off and tell him its cargo if its not connected to anything 😈

[Quattrodave]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Take the exhaust off and tell him its cargo

 

Just what I was going to say 🙄

[MtB]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

sounds the best bet.

 

Take the exhaust off and tell him its cargo if its not connected to anything 😈

 

Excellent idea. What you are actually giving him is a viable defence. 

 

The primary concern of any "safety inspector" capable of critical thinking in any field will be "Will I end up in court over this if I issue a Pass Certificate?". 

 

So if you tell him your diesel genny with the dodgy exhaust is "cargo", then that is what he will say in court in his defence, when prosecuted for your death after you used it to charge your batteries.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Excellent idea. What you are actually giving him is a viable defence. 

 

The primary concern of any "safety inspector" capable of critical thinking in any field will be "Will I end up in court over this if I issue a Pass Certificate?". 

 

So if you tell him your diesel genny with the dodgy exhaust is "cargo", then that is what he will say in court in his defence, when prosecuted for your death after you used it to charge your batteries.

 

 

But the BSS is not there to prevent you killing yourself while you charge your batteries 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

But the BSS is not there to prevent you killing yourself while you charge your batteries 

 

Eggs actly - it is to stop the hose that is hanging over the side of the boat 'wiping out' all of the passers-by with CO poisoning.

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Eggs actly - it is to stop the hose that is hanging over the side of the boat 'wiping out' all of the passers-by with CO poisoning.

 

 

Diesels don't really emit CO in their products of combustion.

 

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Diesels don't really emit CO in their products of combustion.

 

 

 

True when they are being run efficiently. 

 

Not true when they are not.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Diesels don't really emit CO in their products of combustion.

 

 

 

They do, but a much smaller amount than petrol

[Momac]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Diesels don't really emit CO in their products of combustion.

 

 

What do you mean  by ''don't really''

 

On 26/04/2023 at 17:19, waterworks said:

I have a workshop on my boat under canvas with a self contained 6 kva Diesel generator not linked to the fuel or electrical system, exhaust just goes over the gunwhale when I use it,  what BSC rules apply to it ?

Whether or not the presence of the generator  is a BSS fail probably depends whether it fixed engine or not.

Photographs may help.