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Freeman 22 window leaking.


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Hi there everyone. I bought a Freeman 22 narrow beam in 2016 for restoration and have managed to restore it to it's former glory. One job which has on whole been successful is taking all six windows out then taking them apart replacing all internal seals and finally once together again refitting. I again used brand new seals all bought from Sheridan Marine. Five of the six windows are working perfectly but the largest by dinette table has leaked on and off from the start. I tried putting more silicone behind rubber and Captain Tolley's creeping crack cure to no avail. Please advise. I would quite happily pay for an expert to do it for me.

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Have you worked out where it is leaking?  Plumbers fluorescein is good stuff for leak detecting.  Get it in Screwfix.

 

Silicone sealant is really only designed to work when there is at least a 3mm thickness of the stuff. It is rarely successful for long behind windows in a thin layer.

 

If the leak is between the frame and the "glass"!! then another try at new seals, with some lubricant. Ensure the window frame is not distorted when it is fitted.

 

If it is between boat and frame then try a butyl tape or gun sealant, ( google seamseal CV)  or self adhesive closed  cell foam tape. Pull the window onto its seat gently and evenly to avoid stressing the frame and causing leaks. Butyl never sets hard and is easy to use.  Remove with white spirit. Closed cell tape can be built up in layers to even out a not very flat surface.

 

N

 

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I think you are more likely to find a tradesman if you were able to take the boat to a boatyard/marina.  The boatyard at Sileby may be worth approaching.

 

That said, if you have done a major refit,  including the other windows successfully, it seems you probably have the kit and skills to sort this out, given the time.  Which may be the problem.

 

N

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Had lots of window problems.

Check that drain holes or slots are clear.Check that your new window seal is not blocking the drain holes, if it is, you might need to cut a little away.

Silicone is ok for the bath but no use on a boat.

To find a leak I put bog roll around the suspect area held in place with a bit of masking tape.

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Hi there. It's coming from rubber seal to hull but on the bottom of it. Though strangely it runs from under the aluminium frame and over the rubber seal which is why it's been driving me mad. I've carefully stripped off the original varnish which had Sadolin applied to it and applied 9 coats of yacht varnish to a mirror finish and don't want it getting damaged. Thanks for help. Much appreciated.

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34 minutes ago, David Krause said:

Hi there. It's coming from rubber seal to hull but on the bottom of it. Though strangely it runs from under the aluminium frame and over the rubber seal which is why it's been driving me mad. I've carefully stripped off the original varnish which had Sadolin applied to it and applied 9 coats of yacht varnish to a mirror finish and don't want it getting damaged. Thanks for help. Much appreciated.

 

This makes no sense to me because it seems to suggest that the glass is in an aluminium frame with the normal rubber gasket, but then the aluminium frame is held into the cabin side by a rubber seal, a bit like rubber section glazing of bus windows. I can not recall having seen anything like that. Any chance of a photo or diagram showing what you mean.

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Funnily enough I tried to show you leak by showering window with hose for 5 minutes but no water came through. I have this picture of the offending window though which is the large one to the back next to the helm. Thank you for your help though.

IMG_20190824_184431.jpg

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That looks as if the aluminium frame really is held in by a twin slot rubber seal, plus the silver filler strip to help push the seal against the frame and cabin side, like the older non-adhesive bonded car windows.

 

I think that you are saying the leak is between the seal and aluminium window frame rather than seal and cabin side, so:

 

Did you apply any "sealer" between the rubber and aluminium frame? If so, what was it?

Ditto frame to cabin side.

 

I think that you mentioned silicon and if so I think the window needs to come out so you can clean it all off. Then refit the window but WITHOUT the filler strip for now. Next use a suitable sealer (not silicon) in a mastic gun with the nozzle pushed between cabin side and rubber and then window frame and rubber, both on the outside. Fit the filler strip and clean off the excess. I would suggest that you leave a 10mm gap without sealer between the rubber and cabin side in the bottom run and towards the stern, so if water did get into the groove it can drain out.

 

Google "car windscreen non-setting sealant" but take care to avoid the modern adhesives. We used horrible black Bostic stuff on cars, but I would hate to think what it may do to weathered white gelcoat.

 

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On 27/04/2023 at 15:08, David Krause said:

Funnily enough I tried to show you leak by showering window with hose for 5 minutes but no water came through. I have this picture of the offending window though which is the large one to the back next to the helm. Thank you for your help though.

IMG_20190824_184431.jpg

I too played a hose on a suspected leaking window with the same result as you.Sometimes it can take some time for the water to percolate through.

In my case, the window wasn't leaking, and the leak was traced to one of the roof rail fittings leaking behind the trim and running down inside and coming out at the bottom of the window frame.

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From what I can gather from the description, I think there is an unsealed area on the frame to rubber, allowing water to leak into the grove =, then it runs down, fills up the grove in the rubber, and leaks out somewhere along the bottom of the said joint. My guess is that it will be at the lower half of the end radiuses unless it is getting in by capillary action.

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36 minutes ago, David Krause said:

Thanks for that but I reseated all stainless steel and chrome fittings with marine mastic which comes on a roll so I would hope it's not that but will have a look. Thanks everyone for their suggestions. I'm going to give it another go. 

 

May I point out that I have asked for a photo of the offending leak or a sketch so I get an idea of what you actually have. A general photo of the boat is not detailed enough to see what you have, so my suggestions are really only guesses. There is no way that I would install a window using a dual slotted rubber seal/gasket using anything on a roll. That stuff is for use where a flange on the aluminium window frame is screwed or riveted onto the cabin side. It does not "flow" readily enough, so can easily hold the rubber gasket slightly clear of the glass/frame or cabin side. In my vehicle glazing experience, you need something that can be "gunned" between the gasket and whatever through a nozzle pushed into the gasket slot.

 

I also wonder how you fitted the window if you filled the slots in the rubber with stiff mastic. One would normally use a cord around the outer slot to pull the gasket flange into the boat. That would mess up any bead of mastic you had put into the slot.

 

You do not need any sealer under the silver filler strip. Its job is to push the gasket flanges onto the frame and cabin side.

 

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1 minute ago, David Krause said:

Hi there. I think I put a picture on further up the page. I hope that ok as I was struggling to find a small enough file.

 

You put a photo of the outside of the boat, where the windows are so small one can not discern the fitting details. Also, the leak is on the inside, not the outside. Even if you have no sketching program/app on your computer/phone, I can not see what is stopping you using pencil and paper and taking a low resolution photo to post here.

 

You are talking about a boat that may well be 50 to 60 years old and may on here were not born when it was built, so you are in a large part relying upon older members' memories. Anything you can do to help explain exactly what is going on helps you get a quality answer. Incidently, the vast majority of inland boat windows are fitted in a totally different way to how I think yours are, so that reduces the number of people who know even further.

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I have no idea what that image is supposed to be. If we accept the white is the hull, the black stripe with the coloured bands above is the rubbing band, then the lower area of what looks like reeded wood is the side walkway that may be covered in something like "teak finish" cork glue down covering or, more likely, wooden garden decking boards. This is not shown in the earlier photo. The upper section of reeded wood again looks like garden deck boards that again is not shown on the earlier photo.

 

This photo adds nothing to exactly how the windows are fitted into the cabin side or exactly where the leak is. In fact, comparing the two photos suggests to me that they are two different boats. Even if those boards are inside the boat, they are definitely non-standard, so I can't really be any more help. I think I have said all I can on the information provided.

  • Greenie 1
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Thanks.

 

So the white is the cabin inner lining.

The black above that a rubber gasket.

The multicoloured band above that is an aluminium/stainless frame that holds the glass.

 

I think this is what you have and where the leak is. This is a vertical section through the bottom run of glazing rubber.

 

 

IFreemnglazing.jpg.431c5ef93423ac906b8ac72d3db0e407.jpg

If this is what you have and the leak is where I indicate, then water must be getting in between the metal window frame and the glazing gasket. It could be getting in anywhere around the gasket, but lower sides and bottom is most likely. It builds up in any gap in the bottom of the channel in the rubber and comes out at a low, less well sealed part along the bottom of the window, but the top of that seal run.` this does not surprise me if you have used a mastic on a roll sealer. It is likely to prevent the rubber being pushed down onto the glass by the filler strip.

 

You could try running several applications of Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure (I kid you not) along the metal to rubber interface all round, but I think the way most likely to succeed is to take the whole thing out, clean all the mastic off and refit "dry". Then before refitting the filler strip, plush the nozzle of a cartridge applicator/gun down between the frame and rubber so you have plenty of sealer in and at the bottom of the channel. Ditto for the cabin side. Then fit the filler strip and clean off.

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