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1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 There’s lots of these divisive square sterns around, and not too many Bickerstffs or Aqualines so  who made/make  those? Could it be Liverpool boats? 

ABC boats often have these all window style front end each side of glazed doors which is nice when in the galley or stopped. 

 

Probably one of the commonest boat manufacturers apart from Liverpool is  Colecraft is there any particular features they have? Some look very  pleasant and they’ve been manufacturing for many years. 
The optional extras are a good point. Braidbar boats vary a lot apart from the Lord Vernon wharf and or Braidbar on the side. I looked at an Orion tug with square “rivets” on the fold down roof which I believe was a one off. The Davis Northwhich trader design varies too, with well deck instead of tug deck, and I’m sure I’ve seen an SM Hudson without a josher bow. 

Ultimately it’s a good conversation piece at locks with care or evenings, it’s hopeless to ask when passing as usually the helmsperson thinks it’s another question or worse a criticism  🤣
 

 

Did Liverpool Boats do square sterns too? Ours has a nice rounded one.

 

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 There’s lots of these divisive square sterns around, and not too many Bickerstffs or Aqualines so  who made/make  those? Could it be Liverpool boats? 

ABC boats often have these all window style front end each side of glazed doors which is nice when in the galley or stopped. 

 

Probably one of the commonest boat manufacturers apart from Liverpool is  Colecraft is there any particular features they have? Some look very  pleasant and they’ve been manufacturing for many years. 
The optional extras are a good point. Braidbar boats vary a lot apart from the Lord Vernon wharf and or Braidbar on the side. I looked at an Orion tug with square “rivets” on the fold down roof which I believe was a one off. The Davis Northwhich trader design varies too, with well deck instead of tug deck, and I’m sure I’ve seen an SM Hudson without a josher bow. 

Ultimately it’s a good conversation piece at locks with care or evenings, it’s hopeless to ask when passing as usually the helmsperson thinks it’s another question or worse a criticism  🤣
 

 

Yes I've had a few conversations start with me being informed "You know you've got a Liverpool Boat built between X year and X year don't you? 🤓" though I still forget the precise years. Often some of the most interesting conversations.

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3 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

Did Liverpool Boats do square sterns too? Ours has a nice rounded one.

 

Yes I've had a few conversations start with me being informed "You know you've got a Liverpool Boat built between X year and X year don't you? 🤓" though I still forget the precise years. Often some of the most interesting conversations.

 

Liverpool boats did some wide beams with square sterns. Not sure about narrow boats but they have been making steel boats for a long time so probably did a few.

There certainly arrr some interesting interpretations around.

 

This was on an old thread on here about 'josher' bows. Mr Josher and his Fellows would be turning in their graves. Or perhaps proud to be influencial.

 

 

 

 

20180530_113911-1377x2448.jpg

Edited by magnetman
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3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Liverpool boats did some wide beams with square sterns. Not sure about narrow boats but they have been making steel boats for a long time so probably did a few.

There certainly arrr some interesting interpretations around.

 

This was on an old thread on here about 'josher' bows. Mr Josher and his Fellows would be turning in their graves. Or perhaps proud to be influencial.

 

 

 

 

20180530_113911-1377x2448.jpg

<hughie>

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5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Unusual bows and those scoop vents are not often seen on narrows. Also the back deck looks generous.

 

Looks a good one for ramming the wide beans.

Or icebreaking? Or a joke...

 

I say I say I say, what do you get when you cross a narrowboat with a duck?

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48 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

 

Oh interesting, do you know what that proper purpose is? I assume it's not to give a semi-useful stepping point. Nor is it expressly designed to catch on the edge of the canal if levels drop and the lock landing has a corner in just the wrong place, hanging the boat up (though it is remarkably good at doing that if the circumstances are just right...)

Some Market Harborough boats have the same feature. Many years ago, (1991, when Anglo Welsh did a Market Harborough to Bath trip at a very reasonable hire cost) I was told that it was to strengthen the bow, which , on hire boats, tended to spread as a result of head on contact with top cills, gates, etc.

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48 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

 

Oh interesting, do you know what that proper purpose is? I assume it's not to give a semi-useful stepping point. Nor is it expressly designed to catch on the edge of the canal if levels drop and the lock landing has a corner in just the wrong place, hanging the boat up (though it is remarkably good at doing that if the circumstances are just right...)

 

It's a guard. In plan view that point is on the outer profile of the hull so it's vulnerable. It's also the join between plates at an obtuse angle - not particualrly strong and ripe for being dented - so there has to be something along the outside of the boat to protect and stiffen the joint.

 

There's a fine line between making a feature of a necessary hull element and pure bling. It's also the case that some reputable hull fabricators will construct features that a properly skilled boatbuilder would probably refuse to entertain, such as gate lifting bows.

 

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3 hours ago, dmr said:

think a basic boat spoting guide would be a lovely thing, and might even encourage people to take a bit more interest in boats.

This is what I was hoping it would become. Probably a better title ‘Basic boat spotting guide’

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I'd say pretty much every boat displying 'Registered at Tamworth' or with 'Glascote Basin/Dock' as the signwritten home port is an SM Hudson; note there are Hudsons that are not SM. There are also a few non-rivetted SM Hudson's about. Hudson's are of course the most idiosyncratic mass produced (by canal standards) shell on the system with the characatured "Josher" bow and the upswept stern . The front end shape is divisive but the back end is lovely. 

 

I did smile at the notion in a post above that faux rivets are the mark of a quaility shell builder. Won't find any on a Norton Canes Boatbuilders boat; the Merc S Class to SMH's BMW 5 Series. Norton Canes boats have an understated elegance.

 

RW Davis & Sons produce their so-called "Northwich Trader" not just with faux rivets on the hull but also on the full length of the cabin. A bit of an OTT feature on what is otherwise a very nice boat. Barry Hawkins also built a "Northwich Trader". Tyler/Wilson will also do fake rivets I think.

 

Stoke Boats sometimes put a line of fake rivets down each side of the stem post but nowhere else, and their boats also have a distinctly (quasi)-ellipitcal shaped counter.

 

I guess at Orion when I see a nice shell that I can't identify as one of the above. Maybe say the same for a Tyler/Wilson.

 

Black Prince boats - built for private customers as well as hire boats - are distinctive due to the continuous rubber insert along the stem, the double wood (effect?) front doors, the fuel tank being shaped around the rudder tube which is visible, and the rear fender being a rubber D mounted on the end of a hinged metal leg.

 

Doug Moore boats - another good builder - have very deep top bends and straight, forward sloping cabin front edges.   

 

ETA - crossed post with @magnetman. Noted the same feature on Doug Moore boats. There aren't that many around.

 

Could you find some picture examples please 

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

No one has mentioned the Stow Hill "distinctive" pinched in bow shape. Bit of an acquired taste that.

Simon Piper's boats are easy. PIPER, cut in to the hull side at the stern on each side as engine bay air vents/intakes.

Seen the PIPER boats about, didn’t know that was air intake!
 

Could you add a picture example of stow hill bow please?

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1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

That lip is a proper boat building feature that serves a purpose, unfortunatley rather too many of such features get lost over time and with fashionable trends but style and function are combined on a good shell. Historic boats might look like they had decorative features but every one of them served a purpose.

Our GT hull had one which I hoked on a wide lock somewhere when getting diagonal in the lock 

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Not sure how nicking pictures off the internet works but as there is no water in the pool I'll dive in head first at the deep end and see what happens.

 

 

Hudson boat out of Glascote basin.

 

img-0563.jpg

 

 

Compare with an actual real replica other boat built by a different maker called Roger Fuller. 

 

 

img_4594.jpg

 

 

 

I was like OMG.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Owls Den said:

This is what I was hoping it would become. Probably a better title ‘Basic boat spotting guide’

Could you find some picture examples please 

Seen the PIPER boats about, didn’t know that was air intake!
 

Could you add a picture example of stow hill bow please?

 

I think the picture of the red and green boat posted by @magnetman is a Stowe Hill boat. The photo also happens to have been taken at Stowe Hill too.

Edited by Captain Pegg
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An especially worrying Stowe Hill bow

 

6582365.jpg

 

This could get fun.

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

/

I think the picture of the red and green boat posted by @magnetman is a Stowe Hill boat. The photo also happens to have been taken at Stowe Hill too.

I noticed it was at their yard but did they really do the extreme ones? There was a boat with the same bows at Bulbourne for a number of yars. Owner was known for going fast through Tring cutting when nobody was about which I thought was quite a cool thing to do.

 

 

 

Barry Hawkins did some quite crazy bows in his early days before settling on the overly riveted workboat copy things.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

An especially worrying Stowe Hill bow

 

6582365.jpg

 

This could get fun.

I noticed it was at their yard but did they really do the extreme ones? There was a boat with the same bows at Bulbourne for a number of yars. Owner was known for going fast through Tring cutting when nobody was about which I thought was quite a cool thing to do.

 

 

 

 

That looks similar to the bow on Petrus currently for sale at Rugby Boats which has a Reeves hull. It has a bow camera to make sure you don't impale anything or anybody.

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One can tell this is Stowe Hill but its not at all similar to the other one above.

 

In house I think this one was.

 

8105358_0_111120210543_1.jpg

1 minute ago, Owls Den said:

Why do so many narrow boats have the same red and white stripe on the stern?

 

Visibility. You want a white stripe so you can be seen in low light and a red stripe to help in the daytime.

 

That's my theory anyway.

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3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Visibility. You want a white stripe so you can be seen in low light and a red stripe to help in the daytime.

 

That's my theory anyway.

Yeah I guessed that was the case but wondered if any traceable historical reason, or a boat builder who implemented it first?

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17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

An especially worrying Stowe Hill bow

 

6582365.jpg

 

This could get fun.

I noticed it was at their yard but did they really do the extreme ones? There was a boat with the same bows at Bulbourne for a number of yars. Owner was known for going fast through Tring cutting when nobody was about which I thought was quite a cool thing to do.

 

 

 

Barry Hawkins did some quite crazy bows in his early days before settling on the overly riveted workboat copy things.

 

 

 

That is what happens when your crew close the lock gates whilst you are still leaving the lock...  :)  :)

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Owls Den said:

Why do so many narrow boats have the same red and white stripe on the stern?

 

Counter bands (sometimes called tunnel bands).

 

That's for visibility. Boat in half light or darkness and you'll start to understand why canal boats and infrastructure are painted the ways that they are. There's a purpose behind the decoration. Same as the steelwork shapes on a hull.

 

You'll normally find contrasting dark and light colours in combination and on the more decorative stuff - such as diamonds on working boat deck boards and stands - the arrangement of colours alternates light and dark.

 

It makes a lot more sense when you remember that working boats operated maybe up to 18 hours per day all year and had little or no forward lighting.

 

The tunnel theory for counter bands isn't as convincing as simply needing to be seen by an approaching craft if you are moored as the outside boat of a working boat pair.

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One can tell this is Stowe Hill but its not at all similar to the other one above.

 

In house I think this one was.

 

8105358_0_111120210543_1.jpg

 

Visibility. You want a white stripe so you can be seen in low light and a red stripe to help in the daytime.

 

That's my theory anyway.

 

Indeed. There is a growing trend to have the stern tunnel bands in two dark colours. When you follow one of these in a tunnel the boat ahead can be very difficult to see.

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