What to do about aggressive cyclists

[IanD]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As Ian will find out as he spends more towpath time, it's not a few inconsiderate cyclists spoiling it for the rest, it's the majority by a considerable margin. The careful ones are probably boaters. Electric bikes have made it ten times more dangerous. At least with the motor bikes you can hear them coming. It's a bit like dog owners - it's everybody else's dog that's out of control, ought to be on a lead or messes on the path. Only it isn't.

We don't like them because almost all of them are a pain in the backside.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that I already spend more time actually on the towpath every week than most boaters on here, either walking or cycling -- certainly more than when I'm on a boat. I've seen some idiot cyclists but most -- at least, round here -- don't seem too bad, as you say the slower and more careful ones are probably boaters, I often have to overtake them -- with plenty of warning, "coming past on your right" etc of course 🙂

 

Electric bikes and souped-up escooters are more of a hazard than cyclists, just like they increasingly are everywhere else -- but this needs treating as a separate problem, not by punishing or banning cyclists.

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

31 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Some cyclists need reminding that just ringing their bell does not entitle them to unimpeded passage!

the number of tings and the rapididity of the repetitition is a good indicator of how much of an idiot a cyclist is likely to be. 

 

I was told that part of the problem is smartphone apps which upload stats from riders. Point being that the keen cyclists will be more likely to have a higher average speed and also be uploading their data. 

 

=problem because the app will then tell other users the towpath is a fast transit option. 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

Odd this.

 

I have always found cyclists on the Calder & Hebble to be far and away the most polite and courteous on the network. 

 

Maybe being a six foot hairy bloke helps, but I think my usual practice of twirling the handspike like a quarterstaff is the main reason. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

the number of tings and the rapididity of the repetitition is a good indicator of how much of an idiot a cyclist is likely to be. 

 

I was told that part of the problem is smartphone apps which upload stats from riders. Point being that the keen cyclists will be more likely to have a higher average speed and also be uploading their data. 

 

=problem because the app will then tell other users the towpath is a fast transit option. 

 

 

 

But if there was a recognised maximum cycling speed, it would also allow prosecutions based on the cyclist's own data. Once again, there is no incentive to try anything a bit radical. It is cheaper and easier to allow, for instance, an old age pensioner to be knocked down and hospitalised with no cost to the cyclist. Furious riding I think is already an offence, but the police find it cheaper to ignore it.

[Arthur Marshall]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Odd this.

 

I have always found cyclists on the Calder & Hebble to be far and away the most polite and courteous on the network. 

 

Maybe being a six foot hairy bloke helps, but I think my usual practice of twirling the handspike like a quarterstaff is the main reason. 

 

 

I find the walking stick and a good lurch slows them down.

It's not a question of stopping or punishing them, cos you can't. It's just another thing that has made boating less attractive and safe.

[IanD]

29 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes but.... since you have mentioned these unrelated issues, the reason that the majority of child abuse is perpetrated by white men is because the majority of men in this country are white. It's a bit like how some people like to say that the majority of gun and knife crime is white on white rather than black on black.

 

You can't use absolute numbers to demonstrate a point, whether you're trying to show that a certain group has a greater responsibility for that problem or you're trying to show that they don't. Instead you have to use figures based on the proportion of that group as a % of the general population. There are other metrics too and interpreting the statistics is far from simple, so I'm afraid that saying that "the majority of child abusers are white" is just as irresponsible as vilifying Pakistani Muslims for child abuse. 

 

https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/#:~:text=It found that 36% of,profile trials for child grooming.

 

I'm perfectly aware of all that, I know how statistics work. What I said was carefully chosen to be literally correct, and was meant as a response to the frankly disgracefully racist comments that Suella Braverman made recently -- and was called out on by Baroness Warsi.

 

None of which matters, my point is that encouraging hate and division is exactly what press like the Daily Wail has always thrived on, because making it all into an "us vs. them" culture war hides who the real culprits are.

 

In this case -- the title of the thread -- it's *aggressive* cyclists, not *all* cyclists. The problem is that anything to try and stop/discourage them is likely to be difficult/expensive/impossible to enforce, and more likely to hit the "good" cyclists (who are more likely to be rule-followers than rule-breakers) then the actual culprits. I'm pretty sure that when I was cycling on the towpaths in the 80s with an official BW license I was one of the few who actually had one, because there was no real chance of detection or punishment if you didn't -- and anyway most cyclists probably neither knew nor cared -- which is presumably why the requirement was dropped.

 

You get exactly the same diatribe from motorists -- and yes, I am one too! -- who hate the cyclists who ride dangerously, and jump red lights, and zoom across occupied pedestrian crossings, and have no lights on at night -- and there are always calls to license /ban/fine/register/control them, all of which ignore the fact that this is realistically impossible, and that for the general population cycling is A Good Thing which should be encouraged.

 

So when I'm in the car I hate stupid cyclists and pedestrians. When I'm on the bike I hate stupid drivers and pedestrians. When I'm walking I hate stupid cyclists and drivers.

 

Spot the theme? It's "stupid", not drivers or cyclists or pedestrians... 😉

 

The only way to fix this is to find a way to get rid of "stupid", nothing else will work. Please send suggestions on a postcard...

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[BilgePump]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

the number of tings and the rapididity of the repetitition is a good indicator of how much of an idiot a cyclist is likely to be. 

 

I was told that part of the problem is smartphone apps which upload stats from riders. Point being that the keen cyclists will be more likely to have a higher average speed and also be uploading their data. 

 

=problem because the app will then tell other users the towpath is a fast transit option. 

 

 

So sir, you uploaded a Cycleapp route to Facebook, showing you covered 30 miles of towpath in less than ninety minutes and you claim to have been cycling at walking speed all that morning when you ploughed into the orphans' Christmas outing?

 

[MtB]

What we really need is more signs. One sign every two or three hundred metres reminding cyclists to "Cut your pace, share the space" or something like that. 

 

That should help. 

 

If it doesn't, then the signs must be too far apart and more should be erected.

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

Just now, MtB said:

What we really need is more signs. One sign every two or three hundred metres reminding cyclists to "Cut your pace, share the space" or something like that. 

 

That should help. 

 

If it doesn't, then the signs must be too far apart and more should be erected.

 

 

If the signs go across the towpath instead of along the side, that should slow them down... 😉

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

If the signs go across the towpath instead of along the side, that should slow them down... 😉

 

Actually, periodic forests of them might be an even better idea. Pedestrians can turn sideways to fit between them, bikists would have to dismount and lift their bikes over them.

 

Except for  Danny MacAskill obviously. 

[magnetman]

Deciduous drawing pin trees or more blackthorn hedges. 

Or Hawthorn. I like Hawthorn. Got some on the fire at the moment lovely wood to burn when dried out. 

 

Not sure what rude cyclists would be like on the fire. Might be awkward to get them in. 

 

Maybe bonfires would work. 

[IanD]

45 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Actually, periodic forests of them might be an even better idea. Pedestrians can turn sideways to fit between them, bikists would have to dismount and lift their bikes over them.

 

Except for  Danny MacAskill obviously. 

If the signs were edge-on -- and sharpened -- instead of upright -- that would soon solve the speeding cyclist problem... 😉

[Momac]

The government says this

[magnetman]

The sign itself says it all. Bicycle is above the walkers. 

 

Never mind all the small print you need to change around the image and make the bike smaller or people will think the bike has priority. 

Put the bike at no.2 on the list. 

 

It is tricky because people on bikes are saving the planet from incredibly horrible fiery apocalypse so they do have quite a lot of general entitlement. 

 

Funny how we can't have horses on towpaths but bikes are okay. 

 

 

 

 

Also if passing a bicycle on a towpath -always- ensure they are on the side where the water is. By using a vehicle with a higher speed than walking, in close proximity to water  they have accepted the risk. Don't let them transfer it onto you. They would like to but do not allow this. 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

33 minutes ago, IanD said:

If the signs were edge-on -- and sharpened -- instead of upright -- that would soon solve the speeding cyclist problem... 😉

 

Funny you should say that ....

 

 

That's a handlebar/infrastructure aftermath 😁

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

What we really need is more signs. One sign every two or three hundred metres reminding cyclists to "Cut your pace, share the space" or something like that. 

 

That should help. 

 

If it doesn't, then the signs must be too far apart and more should be erected. Free

 

 

 

 

There could be solar powered signs that light up when the cyclists exceeded 5mph and a siren goes off at 10mph

Edited April 17, 2023 by LadyG

[magnetman]

I always thought bits of hose glued d

down to the surface of the towpath under bridge holes could work. At an angle. It catches the wheel. 

 

Dismount. 

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

There could be solar powered signs that light up when the cyclists exceeded 5mph and a siren goes off at 10mph

And at 15mph a camera-controlled machine gun solves the problem once and for all... 😉

42 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The government says this

All of which makes complete sense, and is pretty much what has been said in some posts...

[magnetman]

I'm not sure machine guns would be needed. Just a 12 bore rigged to a speed sensing trip device should be able to sort it out. 

 

Or maybe a tiger trap. 

[Rebotco]

Cyclists travelling at a sedate pace are not a problem and most welcome as far as I'm concerned.

It's the brainless twerps who think the towpath is a race track who are the only problem.

So it all boils down to speed.  Notices, signs, advice etc are totally useless on the brain dead.

They are never going to slow down voluntarily for anybody.  They must be forcibly slowed down - its the only way.

My solution is speed bumps - cheap and effective!

These will not affect pedestrians, dog walkers, pram pushers, boaters or the sensible cyclists.

But will definitely impede the the lunatic stick insects clad in lycra.

For maximum impact these speed bumps should be angled towards the canal.

Cheap, effective, and highly entertaining.  Think I might patent that idea ......?

[BilgePump]

6 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Cyclists travelling at a sedate pace are not a problem and most welcome as far as I'm concerned.

It's the brainless twerps who think the towpath is a race track who are the only problem.

So it all boils down to speed.  Notices, signs, advice etc are totally useless on the brain dead.

They are never going to slow down voluntarily for anybody.  They must be forcibly slowed down - its the only way.

My solution is speed bumps - cheap and effective!

These will not affect pedestrians, dog walkers, pram pushers, boaters or the sensible cyclists.

But will definitely impede the the lunatic stick insects clad in lycra.

For maximum impact these speed bumps should be angled towards the canal.

Cheap, effective, and highly entertaining.  Think I might patent that idea ......?

That was my way of thinking until you realise that CaRT would need to put in thousands of them, at millions in kerching, and the full tilt cyclists would still think that they were little jumps to enjoy.

CaRT have been 'gifted' a few thousand miles of shared footpath, cycleway, fisherbank from which they get nowt in revenue. It's not possible to make it into a perfect shared environment.

Bottom line. We should all try to be considerate.

[enigmatic]

Personally I think we should ban both pedestrians and cyclists from towpaths and leave them for horses as originally intended  

 

(In all seriousness, when I use a bike on a towpath I generally slow right down to walking pace when passing pedestrians whether they've clearly heard me or not. Towpaths are generally muddy, bumpy and not very wide, and lots of people on them are walking dogs...)

[Lady M]

Well I think they should be viewed as being part of the navigation.

[magnetman]

Another option would be to have sacrificial babies.

 

Life-like dolls which you throw into the path of fast cyclists and film them as the suddenly think they are killing an infant due to their recklessness. 

 

Shock tactic. 

 

You would need a lot of babies. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Well I think they should be viewed as being part of the navigation.

If you give the cyclist a shove sideways they may well end up being part of the navigation. 

 

Small grappling hooks on powerful elastics could work. 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

Except for  Danny MacAskill obviously. 

 

 

It is however, mesmerising whatching this bod. 

 

https://cdn.theguardian.tv/mainwebsite/2016/10/12/161012redbull_desk.mp4