BSS Failure, difference of opinion 'fitted' vs 'installed'.

[Quattrodave]

I recently had a BSS chap fail my project boat as he deemed the presence of a gas cooker the same as having a complete working gas system 'installed' and testing it; which obviously he couldn't; as half of it is missing...  I explained that as he could see this was a project boat and even tho there was a gas cooker 'fitted' there was no 'gas' system 'installed' and once it was 'installed' I was was well aware I had to get him back to re-test but as this wasn't high on my list of priorities it may be a year or so.  I even pointed out that there was no gas locker, gas bottle or regulator.  The reply i recieved was that I could just put a regulator and bottle on and have a fully working gas system that was un-tested...

 

I can see his point and on one hand I agree with him...  I've had a look through the BSS guidance but can't find anything about testing an un finished install...  What's your thoughts please?

 

EDIT: I've just found this:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/professionals/examination/examination-guidance/decommissioned-incomplete-systems/

Point 5.2.1 Looks like he might have been correct in what he said....

Edited April 10, 2023 by Quattrodave

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

I recently had a BSS chap fail my project boat as he deemed the presence of a gas cooker the same as having a complete working gas system 'installed' and testing it; which obviously he couldn't; as half of it is missing...  I explained that as he could see this was a project boat and even tho there was a gas cooker 'fitted' there was no 'gas' system 'installed' and once it was 'installed' I was was well aware I had to get him back to re-test but as this wasn't high on my list of priorities it may be a year or so.  I even pointed out that there was no gas locker, gas bottle or regulator.  The reply i recieved was that I could just put a regulator and bottle on and have a fully working gas system that was un-tested...

 

I can see his point and on one hand I agree with him...  I've had a look through the BSS guidance but can't find anything about testing an un finished install...  What's your thoughts please?

 

EDIT: I've just found this:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/professionals/examination/examination-guidance/decommissioned-incomplete-systems/

Point 5.2.1 Looks like he might have been correct in what he said....

 

Glad you found that because I was not going to post a link.

 

"The appliance needs removing and any gas piping closed off (capped)" before a BSS can be issued.

[harrybsmith]

It's a bit like the MOT rule- "If it's there, it's got to work." 

 

BSS can be a bit of a lottery, the inspector that did my latest one checked about 3 things, then demanded a coffee, complained about the weather then left, which is worse for everyone involved than someone who is excessively thorough 

[Quattrodave]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

"The appliance needs removing and any gas piping closed off (capped)" before a BSS can be issued.

 

I had a sneaky feeling that was going to be the case, seeing as the pipework is in good order and i do want to use it I think we're gonna have to move it to the top of the list and commission the gas system...

[David Mack]

Wiring connected to an electrical appliance but not connected to the fuse box or distribution board is OK, but gas pipework connected to a gas appliance but not connected to a gas supply is not - even if there is no gas locker or gas bottle. A bit inconsistent!

 

But disconnected gas pipework on its own is OK. So the OP's answer is to remove the cooker from the boat while the BSS is being done.

Edited April 10, 2023 by David Mack

[Quattrodave]

3 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

It's a bit like the MOT rule- "If it's there, it's got to work."

 

And there lies the difference of opinion, my arguement was a cooker plonked on a shelf is not a fitted gas system. 

Anyhow, looks like he did the correct thing.

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

but gas pipework connected to a gas appliance but not connected to a gas supply is not - even if there is no gas locker or gas bottle. A bit inconsistent!

 

The cooker isn't conneted to anything & the pipe work is incomplete.

[MtB]

Some BSS bods are scared of their own shadow and will fail anything given half an excuse. At the other extreme others take the view that if it isn't going to land them in court, then issue the ticket. Or put another way assessing the boater is just as important as assessing the boat. 

 

Choosing a BSS bod whose attitudes align with yours is critical and one of the many unwritten rules in boating. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by MtB
Bloody spell checker interfering

[Tony1]

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

Some BSS bods are scared of their own shadow and will fail anything given half an excuse. At the other extreme others take the view that if it isn't going to land them in court, then issue the ticket. Or put another way assessing the boater is just as important as assessing the boat. 

 

Choosing a BSS bod whose attitudes align with yours is critical and one of the many unwritten rules in boating. 

 

 

 

I mentioned whilst chatting at a chandlery that I was due for my BSS in 6 months or so, and a staff person gave me the contact details of a local gas safe engineer and electrician whom, they said, was recently qualified to do BSS exams. 

I asked how keen the new BSS inspector was likely to be, and the staff member said 'probably pretty keen.'

I said no more- the card went in the bin as soon as I was back aboard.

 

 

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I mentioned whilst chatting at a chandlery that I was due for my BSS in 6 months or so, and a staff person gave me the contact details of a local gas safe engineer and electrician whom, they said, was recently qualified to do BSS exams. 

I asked how keen the new BSS inspector was likely to be, and the staff member said 'probably pretty keen.'

I said no more- the card went in the bin as soon as I was back aboard.

 

 

 

 

Well quite.

 

Which loops us back to the question I posed earlier. 

 

Is a 'good' BSS inspector one who fails a lot of boats? Or one who passes a lot? 

 

Moot point innit.

 

 

[Paul C]

A "good" BSS inspector would fail the boats which need failing, and pass the boats which pass. Whether this boils down into a statistically achievable failure rate, is doubtful.

 

A similar issue occurs with MoTs. Testers effectively have a "target" percentage rate to fail or advise on things, below which VOSA prick their ears up and take a closer and closer look at their testing work. The result being, the MoT tester at a local small garage has no worries and sometimes even lets cars which ought to fail through if he deems it not that important; while MoT testers who work at main dealers and constantly see 3-4 year old cars, end up failing or advising on daft things.

[Arthur Marshall]

9 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I mentioned whilst chatting at a chandlery that I was due for my BSS in 6 months or so, and a staff person gave me the contact details of a local gas safe engineer and electrician whom, they said, was recently qualified to do BSS exams. 

I asked how keen the new BSS inspector was likely to be, and the staff member said 'probably pretty keen.'

I said no more- the card went in the bin as soon as I was back aboard.

 

 

The one who failed my electrics just after they'd been replaced by a BSS examiner boat electrician because he "didn't understand the wiring inside the control panel" (he wasn't an electrician) has now luckily retired. So many seem to be quitting it's become impossible to use the same bloke twice.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Well quite.

 

Which loops us back to the question I posed earlier. 

 

Is a 'good' BSS inspector one who fails a lot of boats? Or one who passes a lot? 

 

Moot point innit.

 

 

 

I guess its a 'personal thing' and will depend on if you view the BSS as simply an on-cost to the licence fee and view it as simply a 'needed bit of paper', or if your view is that the BSS actually achieves a improvement in boat safety standards.

 

As I have said on numerous occasions my boats are maintained to well above BSS Examiners standards, and, despite that there have been occasions where the boat failed when it shouldn't, and passed when it shouldn't have.

 

It is very much a lottery and, with very inconsistent control of examiner standards.

 

 

[enigmatic]

13 hours ago, David Mack said:

Wiring connected to an electrical appliance but not connected to the fuse box or distribution board is OK, but gas pipework connected to a gas appliance but not connected to a gas supply is not - even if there is no gas locker or gas bottle. A bit inconsistent!

 

tbf this inconsistency actually makes some sense. Trying to power an appliance with an incomplete electric circuit is only going to result in frustration. 

Trying to power an appliance with a gas bottle connected to an incomplete gas circuit is going to result in a boat full of gas.

[doratheexplorer]

I'm aware of a boater who removed all his gas related stuff, got his BSS passed and then put it all back in.

[Jon57]

2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm aware of a boater who removed all his gas related stuff, got his BSS passed and then put it all back in.

Hope you don’t moor next to him.😱

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I guess its a 'personal thing' and will depend on if you view the BSS as simply an on-cost to the licence fee and view it as simply a 'needed bit of paper', or if your view is that the BSS actually achieves a improvement in boat safety standards.

 

As I have said on numerous occasions my boats are maintained to well above BSS Examiners standards, and, despite that there have been occasions where the boat failed when it shouldn't, and passed when it shouldn't have.

 

It is very much a lottery and, with very inconsistent control of examiner standards.

 

 

 

There has always been a need for some basic safety standards but the BSS has run riot with so many imagined risks which are not actual, serious risks in real life being legislated against. Lots of 'nice to have' stuff is mandatory in the BSS which doesn't need to be for a boat to be 'safe'. (Whatever 'safe' means to you, which also comes into it I guess.)

 

Stuff which while nice to have', I feel was very unlikely to have been causing deaths or serious injury prior to it getting written into the BSS. E.g. labels on tank fillers and gas lockers. I'm lots of people would respond with strings of 'what if' scenarios, but there are no stats in the public domain that I know of supporting each of the BSS requirements. I think there should be, because then people would understand why each reg is there and what public benefit is being derived from each of the measures in the BSS.

 

But the reason there are no stats published is, I suspect, there was no reduction in boating injuries and deaths after the BSS was introduced.

 

 

 

 

I suspect the whole thing is actually, a gravy train.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

I suspect the whole thing is actually, a gravy train.

 

 

You are preaching to the converted.

 

 

 

 

BSS examiners on the 'company day out'.