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What's the cheapest fully fitted brand new narrowboat?


Bishop Brennan

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Again, apologies for banging the GRP drum, but I do think if you are ok living on a smaller boat, the 32ft viking and similar craft should stay on your radar as an option. You could buy a very nice viking 32 for 30k, and you then have 20k to sort out the liveaboard stuff, e.g.

 

1.  A small coal stove - something like this would be enough for the cabin of a 32cc:  https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/collections/cub-cb-108/products/cb-1008-br-cubic-mini-wood-stove

You can also fit that yourself, so no labour costs. 

 

2.  Some insulation, which would be labour intensive, but its not specialist work and you could do a lot of it yourself

 

3.  Maybe an inboard diesel engine if you want that, but lots of GRP owners seem to live happily with an outboard. Some of those viking 32cc's will come with inboard diesels anyway.

 

4. Solar - cover every inch of the roof surface with semi-flexible solar panels

 

5. Get a decent Honda genny because those outboards dont usually recharge batteries very well 

 

I reckon you could end up with a really warm and comfy 32ft GRP for your £50K, and you wouldn't have blacking costs every 2 years, plus your license would be lower its a shorter length boat. 

Apparently they bob around something rotten, but maybe that would make it all feel a bit more nautical! 😁

 

 

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@Tony1 Thank you. No apology needed, I always appreciate people spending time typing replies with their thoughts, knowledge, and opinions. 

 

Noted about the Viking 23cc, thank you for mentioning. 

 

I've never investigated whether outboard diesels are a thing, and how much one could be purchased for. I'm assuming, perhaps a little optimistically, a petrol could simply be swapped for a diesel, if it's a matter of hanging it on the stern. 

 

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3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

For a liveaboard you really want more space than you need on a holiday boat. An Aintree Beetle or anything of similar size (including grp narrow beam cruisers) will very soon feel cramped. Virtually no storage, beds which need to be made up each night and folded away during the daytime, tiny kitchen and bathroom, perhaps inadequate space heating and water heating, especially in winter or if you are moored up for several days. You could well do better looking at a larger second hand boat for the same sort of money.

 

There are some valid points there David, but it is worth mentioning that the viking 32cc does have a rear cabin that could house a permanently made up bed. 

On the down side, the stove would be in the main living cabin, so in winter that rear cabin might be best used as a storage area. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

1.  A small coal stove - something like this would be enough for the cabin of a 32cc:  https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/collections/cub-cb-108/products/cb-1008-br-cubic-mini-wood-stove

You can also fit that yourself, so no labour costs. 

That's a wood stove. What you need is a multi-fuel stove to burn smokeless (coal now being unavailable).

And it comes from Quebec, so I suspect the carriage charge would be pretty hefty!

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47 minutes ago, Bishop Brennan said:

Was wondering how much it would cost to convert to diesel and bring it up to scratch as a viable live-aboard. Probably way too much. 

 

Converting an outboard motor boat to inboard is a truly mahoosive amount of work. One can however, get diesel outboards but somehow I don't think that's quite what you mean.

 

 

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I think I bought my boat at the right time, it's over twenty years old now, but no way would I exchange it for a plastic, regardless , well almost regardless, of cost.

A narrowboat is pretty comfortable if professionally insulated with foam, then lined out, and fitted out with a solid fuel stove, diesel heating, etc. There is room for a decent diesel tank at the stern and a water tank at the bow. It's just a different scenario.

Older boats may look a bit dated, but it's likely that you could find something that suits you. The received wisdom is that for a liveaboard you need a bed space permanently made up  because sleeping on a sofabed is akin to camping.

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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16 minutes ago, David Mack said:

That's a wood stove. What you need is a multi-fuel stove to burn smokeless (coal now being unavailable).

And it comes from Quebec, so I suspect the carriage charge would be pretty hefty!

 

In fairness I did say 'something like this', rather than 'this'.

I don't have any links, but I bet a very compact SF stove would be available from a UK supplier. 

 

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Oh right, I think a diesel outboard would be quite simple to fit. 

 

But why?!!!!

 

 

 

Maybe its because you can buy diesel from marinas at the side of the cut (or even fuel boats)?

Whereas to get petrol you have to go a bit further afield. 

So from a convenience viewpoint the diesel looks attractive. But they cost way more than petrol models, which is a somewhat less attractive feature.

But there are enough petrol gennies around for me to feel reasonably confident that its not a significant hardship for a boater to fetch petrol.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

In fairness I did say 'something like this', rather than 'this'.

I don't have any links, but I bet a very compact SF stove would be available from a UK supplier. 

 

 

Maybe its because you can buy diesel from marinas at the side of the cut (or even fuel boats)?

Whereas to get petrol you have to go a bit further afield. 

So from a convenience viewpoint the diesel looks attractive. But they cost way more than petrol models, which is a somewhat less attractive feature.

But there are enough petrol gennies around for me to feel reasonably confident that its not a significant hardship for a boater to fetch petrol.

 

 

Agree that diesel outboard may not be a great idea, turning up at a marina and asking for five litres in a can may not be such a good idea!

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14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think I bought my boat at the right time, it's over twenty years old now, but no way would I exchange it for a plastic, regardless , well almost regardless, of cost.

A narrowboat is pretty comfortable if professionally insulated with foam, then lined out, and fitted out with a solid fuel stove, diesel heating, etc. There is room for a decent diesel tank at the stern and a water tank at the bow. It's just a different scenario.

 

I take your point about 57ft narrowboats being more spacious and more luxurious than 32ft GRPs (and I do use the word luxurious in a very limited sense there)- but I have to say that if my budget ever got cut back such that I was struggling to pay for blacking every 2 years, plus the increased license fees that are surely coming our way, then I might consider a viking 32cc or similar. 

I certainly dont have any objections to GRPs that are based on aesthetic grounds.

At the end of the day, there are some people who like living afloat but would struggle to pay the running costs of a 57ft narrowboat.

 

As an example, if you use a 15hp or 20hp outboard, you do not have to pay the £200 plus per year for RCR membership- and that saving will really add up over the years, in addition to blacking costs, anodes, etc.

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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I wouldn't struggle to pay the ongoing costs of a steel narrowboat, and would without doubt pull it out of the water every 2-3 years for blacking. My biggest concern, and the reason I'm mulling over a new, but lower cost boat, is that I cannot guarantee there aren't any horrors with second hand. Dodgy surveyors, get out clauses in surveys, the strongly held opinion by many that surveys aren't worth the paper they're written on, careless or neglectful previous owners, and so on and so on. All of those considerations don't exist with brand new. But, I also don't have nor want to spend £150k, nor do I want a larger than 40ft boat. I've lived my whole life in small spaces, and favour minimal possessions. 

 

@Steve_C thanks for that link, it was interesting, and worth knowing about Cunliffe boats offering brand new 35ft boats. 

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1 minute ago, Bishop Brennan said:

My biggest concern, and the reason I'm mulling over a new, but lower cost boat, is that I cannot guarantee there aren't any horrors with second hand. Dodgy surveyors, get out clauses in surveys, the strongly held opinion by many that surveys aren't worth the paper they're written on, careless or neglectful previous owners, and so on and so on. All of those considerations don't exist with brand new.

Are you sure? There are forum members here who have been involved with pre-handover checks on new boats who have experienced numerous problems with boats from the volume builders. And budget builders must be more of a risk with regard to corner cutting. 

There's a lot to be said for a 5-10 year old boat from a quality builder where any initial teething problems have long been resolved.

  • Greenie 1
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22 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I take your point about 57ft narrowboats being more spacious and more luxurious than 32ft GRPs (and I do use the word luxurious in a very limited sense there)- but I have to say that if my budget ever got cut back such that I was struggling to pay for blacking every 2 years, plus the increased license fees that are surely coming our way, then I might consider a viking 32cc or similar. 

I certainly dont have any objections to GRPs that are based on aesthetic grounds.

At the end of the day, there are some people who like living afloat but would struggle to pay the running costs of a 57ft narrowboat.

 

As an example, if you use a 15hp or 20hp outboard, you do not have to pay the £200 plus per year for RCR membership- and that saving will really add up over the years, in addition to blacking costs, anodes, etc.

 

 

I don't pay RCR anything, my Isuzu is the original, and I don't ever expect to replace it,  but it will not be stolen by some chancer with an angle grinder.

I could run my boat more economically, as many folks do, but it's not my style.

I did have to pay quite a lot to haul out and epoxy and anodes, this will be much more expensive than glass fibre, there is no doubt, but I may never have to do it again.

A smaller boat is going to have smaller overheads, obviously. It is easier to manoeuvre,  cheaper to heat and cheaper to purchase.

 

Edited by LadyG
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2 minutes ago, Bishop Brennan said:

All of those considerations don't exist with brand new.

 

True, but you swap them for a different set of concerns when you buy new. Mostly revolving around the financial stability of the builder if you give them any money before collecting the boat. 

 

Also, there is the 'snagging list'. With Liverpool boats for example, the snagging lists used to run into multiple pages of A4 on some of them. They used every trick in the book to pare the build costs back to the bare minimum and the customers bore the brunt of this. I saw more several returned for a refund, so dissatisfied some customers were with their brand new boats. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

my Isuzu is the original, and I don't ever expect to replace it,  but it will not be stolen by some chancer with an angle grinder.

 

 

Ooh that sounds like a challenge!!!

 

 

Many, many years ago it was rumoured that the proud owner of a brand new Jagular XJ12 had the engine nicked out of it in the car park of a posh restaurant near me, while he entertained some friends to dinner. 

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57 minutes ago, Bishop Brennan said:

I've never investigated whether outboard diesels are a thing, and how much one could be purchased for

 

Yes you can but they are at least twice the weight and twice the price of a petrol outboard. They are not common and even rarely found on commercial boats.

 

Yanmar D27 diesel outboard engine - BalticMachinery

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4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

True, but you swap them for a different set of concerns when you buy new. Mostly revolving around the financial stability of the builder if you give them any money before collecting the boat. 

 

Also, there is the 'snagging list'. With Liverpool boats for example, the snagging lists used to run into multiple pages of A4 on some of them. They used every trick in the book to pare the build costs back to the bare minimum and the customers bore the brunt of this. I saw more several returned for a refund, so dissatisfied some customers were with their brand new boats. 

 

 

 

Just to offer a contrasting experience (although admittedly only one person) the guy from whom I bought my Liverpool boat actually went back to them. After my purchase, he was on his way to collect a brand new widebeam from them. 

But I am absolutely not trying to denigrate the many (alleged) reports of quality issues. There is no getting around those.

That said, with a snagging list you can at least get the faults fixed for free (usually), so there is a decent chance you'll still end up with a half decent boat after the hassle of the first few months doing fixes.

 

There was a period when I was considering a different type of mobile lifestyle- a motorhome. I recall many people voicing the opinion that the build quality of UK motorhome manufacturers was so poor that it was preferable to buy one that was a year or two old, so that the previous owner would have dealt with the stress and inconvenience of fixing the quality 'snags' 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Bishop Brennan said:

All of those considerations don't exist with brand new.

 

You can get far worse and far more costly problems with a new boat,

 

A brand new widebeam came into the marina and moored up - it looked very nice for a fat-narrowboat, all out of proportion but it looked a good finish, which you'd expect for £250,000.

 

A few days later 4 blokes rolled up in a couple of vans and set to working on the boat, they were there for 4 days. The next week 3 of them were back again, this went on for about 2 months, so wondering what was going on I asked them what they were doing and was told that they were correcting the problems idetified by the owner, I asked if this was the norm to be told - "No - they are usaully much worse than this, this one was especially built and prepared for the boat show so more care was taken than usual."

 

Time went by and still they came, 1 or 2, somethimes 3 of them but by month three they stopped coming.

 

I asked the owner if all the rectification work was completed and he had a 'fit' "no it bl**dy isn't - they refused to come out any more as my 3 month warranty is now expired and they refuse to do any more work"

 

It seemed that there was water ingress into the hull and they could not locate the source, no idea if it was a leak from the water tank or if it was a porous weld in the hull. External paintwork was peeling and all sorts of little niggles (doors not closing etc) still not fixed.

 

Boat went up for sale for offers over £250,000 and was still for sale a year later when we left the marina.

 

If spending a 'quarter of a million' on a new boat will have that many problems, what will you get for a bargain basement £50k boat ?

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11 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

end up with a half decent boat after the hassle of the first few months doing fixes.

 

Which is exactly what about 50% of our customers ended up with! 

 

Second owners were far better off as the first owner went through the grief and hassle of ironing out all the faults.

 

 

Edited by MtB
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If the OP is risk averse there seems to be a lot of logic in doing what 99.9% of folks in the same shoes do, and that's buy a second hand steel boat.

 

Do as @MtB says but it isn't mutally exclusive with employing a surveyor. You have the funds to be able to purchase a decent boat through a broker with full survey. Nothing is guaranteed with any boat but that's an approach at least as likely to fulfil the objective as any other.

 

A properly viable brand new liveaboard for less than £60k doesn't sound very realistic, unless the OP is a very hardy soul. No need to be so with that budget.

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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When we bought in 2010 we ended up buying used despite the fact that for the same price we could have had a brand new boat.

 

The main reasons were:-

 

Lead time for new builds.

 

Financial risk if the builder went belly up before delivery.

 

We got a much better specd. boat than we could have afforded if bought new. Expensive Mastervolt Combi, hand built kitchen, granite worktops in kitchen and bathroom, excellent quality fit out, Zanussi washing machine, etc etc.

 

Buy used.

 

 

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One of my friends lost his life savings when the builder who was supposedly building his boat as a show boat just disappeared over night. I have had another who towed his hull out of a yard before the liquidator could get it. Another friend had his boat built and without argument or asking the company paid for a repaint as they expected the paint to fail. within 12 months as others in the batch had.

Edited by ditchcrawler
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