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Repetition, deviation, hesitation


MrFish

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I know I am fairly new to these forums. However I do seem to find s lot of threads that go off at huge tangents and almost completely lose sight of the original posters question. 

 

There also a lot of threads that develop into a brawl between different members.

 

These do not do this forum much in the way of favours, resulting in people wishing they had never bothered to ask a question and others being offended.

I would like to think we are all here to either share our knowledge or to increase it. This means providing factual knowledge and sharing of experience. 

 

So when a thread starts to go way of tangent and cannot be steered back to the OP question it would be a good idea to lock the thread and encourage the starting of a new thread to cover where the thread was steering towards.

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7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So when you are having a discussion in the pub with your mates and the conversation drifts, do you interrupt "Chaps, we need to reset this conversation. The new subject is..."?

Or say " right that's it everybody stop talking".

 

P.S. I do agree about the slanging matches in threads outside the politics and pub sections.

 

Edited by Jerra
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Basically, the forum is all about quantity, not quality. An alternate is there - a wiki. Unfortunately, because the majority of the forum members are more comfortable with the status quo, and/or don't even own a canal boat any more, they are not particularly invested in the success or otherwise of the forum. There are many who like the sound of their own voice (or the look of their own typing). Its a clique here. Its the same as other low quality social media.

 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, MrFish said:

I know I am fairly new to these forums. However I do seem to find s lot of threads that go off at huge tangents and almost completely lose sight of the original posters question. 

 

There also a lot of threads that develop into a brawl between different members.

 

These do not do this forum much in the way of favours, resulting in people wishing they had never bothered to ask a question and others being offended.

I would like to think we are all here to either share our knowledge or to increase it. This means providing factual knowledge and sharing of experience. 

 

So when a thread starts to go way of tangent and cannot be steered back to the OP question it would be a good idea to lock the thread and encourage the starting of a new thread to cover where the thread was steering towards.

 

There is currently a position for a moderator open.

 

Why not apply?

 

Then you can do something about it.

 

(Or maybe not, its been the same for many many years and yet still the forum lives on)

7 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Basically, the forum is all about quantity, not quality. An alternate is there - a wiki. Unfortunately, because the majority of the forum members are more comfortable with the status quo, and/or don't even own a canal boat any more, they are not particularly invested in the success or otherwise of the forum. There are many who like the sound of their own voice (or the look of their own typing). Its a clique here. Its the same as other low quality social media.

 

 

 

 

 

What has boat ownership got to do with membership of a waterways forum?

 

Last time I checked the forum R&G's I didnt note boat ownership was a prerequisite for forum membership.

 

Have these changed?

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27 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Basically, the forum is all about quantity, not quality. An alternate is there - a wiki. Unfortunately, because the majority of the forum members are more comfortable with the status quo, and/or don't even own a canal boat any more, they are not particularly invested in the success or otherwise of the forum. There are many who like the sound of their own voice (or the look of their own typing). Its a clique here. Its the same as other low quality social media.

 

 

 

 

You can't have a clique when everybody's equal. This is a discussion forum, and an information source when necessary, with all the usual caveats about online advice.

I think we are all invested in the continuation of the forum's existence - whether it's successful or not depends on one's definition of success, and what you want out of it.

I like the concept of "low quality social media" - again, that rather depends on your definitions, though I'd be interested in what anyone would regard as high quality social media. Personally, I find the dedicated engine and maintenance forums invaluable. The rest varies.

Veering away from topics can be interesting or dull. If one isn't interested, you just stop reading it. There'll be another thread along in a minute.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am getting extremely fed up with what seem to be constant digs at members who do not now have boats. By all means have a go at those who seem to like being argumentative or disruptive, but having a boat is not a prerequisite for giving a valid reply.

 

One day you will not have a boat because of infirmity, but are still likely to be interested in the inland waterways and boats. How will you react when you are told there is no value in your opinions because you don't have a boat?

And having a boat for half a lifetime doesn't mean someone knows much about how the damn things work,  either (I refer to myself as an example)!

The problem for newcomers is, of course, that they can't tell the difference between a suggestion made by me and one made by Tony. But a tad of googling ought to enlighten them.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am getting extremely fed up with what seem to be constant digs at members who do not now have boats. By all means have a go at those who seem to like being argumentative or disruptive, but having a boat is not a prerequisite for giving a valid reply.

 

One day you will not have a boat because of infirmity, but are still likely to be interested in the inland waterways and boats. How will you react when you are told there is no value in your opinions because yo don't have a boat?

 

I am surprised you have taken this personally, because it was not aimed at you. I apologise for the misunderstanding. It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, but it is an observable subset in general.

 

Regarding the second point, I will respectfully decline to engage.

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Just now, bizzard said:

For all we know many folk on here may just have a clockwork toy boat to play with in the bath. :unsure:

 

I envy them, haven't had a bath in ages.  I tend to prefer showers but I haven't even had many of them since getting a boat.  It is surprising how quickly you can get used to not washing every day then it becomes not washing every week, and so on.  The good thing is the queues at the supermarket seem to be shorter.  If only I could remember to stick down my hair in a morning I think I might be able to preserve a veneer of respectability to anyone standing upwind of me.  Oops sorry, :offtopic: 

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13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am getting extremely fed up with what seem to be constant digs at members who do not now have boats. By all means have a go at those who seem to like being argumentative or disruptive, but having a boat is not a prerequisite for giving a valid reply.

 

One day you will not have a boat because of infirmity, but are still likely to be interested in the inland waterways and boats. How will you react when you are told there is no value in your opinions because yo don't have a boat?

 

Given that some of the boat owning members can be argumentative and disruptive too, the distinction to me is moot.

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Ooo ah. But don't worry it's not coming our way declared Mr Fish on tele in 1987.

10 minutes ago, Morris said:

 

I envy them, haven't had a bath in ages.  I tend to prefer showers but I haven't even had many of them since getting a boat.  It is surprising how quickly you can get used to not washing every day then it becomes not washing every week, and so on.  The good thing is the queues at the supermarket seem to be shorter.  If only I could remember to stick down my hair in a morning I think I might be able to preserve a veneer of respectability to anyone standing upwind of me.  Oops sorry, :offtopic: 

Don't bother about it. They say that after a few weeks the body's natural oils seal the stink in, although smelly feet can persist.

4 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Ooo ah. But don't worry it's not coming our way declared Mr Fish on tele in 1987.

Don't bother about it. They say that after a few weeks the body's natural oils seal the stink in, although smelly feet can persist.

Beware of folk wearing Chelsie boots almost always worn to try and seal the pong in.

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9 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

Given that some of the boat owning members can be argumentative and disruptive too, the distinction to me is moot.

Owning boat(s) good, no boat bad? Have read something similar before.

 

Howard

 

 

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For those members who lack a boat, I have a solution. Download my simple instructions for creating your own palm frond boat and you can ride to and from the supermarket to approving oohs and ahhs.

 

Special Easter offer! Get the boat instructions and I'll throw in a pipe cleaner crucix leaflet for free.

 

bike-boat.jpg

Edited by Puffling
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11 hours ago, MrFish said:

I know I am fairly new to these forums. However I do seem to find s lot of threads that go off at huge tangents and almost completely lose sight of the original posters question. 

 

 

 

So when a thread starts to go way of tangent and cannot be steered back to the OP question it would be a good idea to lock the thread and encourage the starting of a new thread to cover where the thread was steering towards.

Yes, topics often develop in a direction which takes them some distance away from their starting point. This, as Mr. Mack and others have observed, is consistent with the the ebb and flow of real-life conversations.

   It would be far from a good idea to lock topics for such reasons. Threads do get locked on here, generally if, as occasionally happens, they degenerate into a playgroundesque brawl, but such a move is always contentious and is one which we generally avoid.

   I trust that these remarks have remained on topic.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 


I never said nor implied any such thing.

 

Please don’t turn into someone as grumpy/self entitled as Tony Dunkley.

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 you seem to think banning members without boats would solve the issue. It won't.

 

………

 

<Rant off> I feel better now. but it won't last.

 

Edited by Paul C
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12 hours ago, MrFish said:

I would like to think we are all here to either share our knowledge or to increase it.

 

I think that's true of some posters, but there are other reasons why people post here.

 

Some seem to be here for entertainment or amusement. Others seem intent on campaigning to persuade others that their particular take on some issue or another should be more widely accepted. Then there are those who give the impression that they come to keep in touch with friends and acquaintances, or to reminisce.

 

Given that mix of (mostly) legitimate motivations some thread drift seems inevitable.

Edited by alias
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28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you seemed unable to produce the relevant quote I have no idea what you "said or implied", I think you may have missed a "never" out of that sentence.  You did say:-

 

 

that clearly shows that you think members who do not now own a boat are not invested in the success of the forum. In other words, for the good of the forum, they should leave or be banned.

 

There are many members here who contribute all sorts of diverse and interesting, and often first hand, information who most members will not have a clue as to their boat ownership.  The chap producing the drone footage of less known canals comes to mind, as do some contributors to the History section. Then there are those with very specific knowledge that is pops up in the more practical sections.

 

I don't see how trying to make sectarian divisions between boat owning and not boat owning members helps the forum at all, and the quote above shows that is what you appear to be about - be it by accident. When I am told that my lack of a boat makes me a second class forum member, I will get grumpy and I feel with very good reason.

It all got a bit messy, because you wrote so much. I tried to extract the relevant part but alas I am on a mobile phone since I’m out and about (by a canal, as it happens). I did manage to quote the right part eventually; and I have edited my post to include the missing “never”.

 

I’m not implying non boaters should be banned - and I feel I ought to pull you up on drawing that conclusion from what I’ve said. It’s like 2+2=17

 

My point is, on some of the more low quality posts on this forum (I DO NOT include you in those, but I think we can all relate to the type of negativity observed), it is clear that certain members take for granted the free use of their soap box to type drivel and/or personal attacks on others, and aren’t that bothered if the overall effect is to drive away new members or muddy up useful threads into a social media slanging match.

Edited by Paul C
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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Yes, topics often develop in a direction which takes them some distance away from their starting point. This, as Mr. Mack and others have observed, is consistent with the the ebb and flow of real-life conversations.

   It would be far from a good idea to lock topics for such reasons. Threads do get locked on here, generally if, as occasionally happens, they degenerate into a playgroundesque brawl, but such a move is always contentious and is one which we generally avoid.

   I trust that these remarks have remained on topic.

 

Another forum I post in regularly (nothing to do with boats) has the polar opposite policy. If a thread drift begins, off-topic posts get deleted and a note added to the thread by the mod reminding people to stay on-topic and inviting them to start a new thread on their off topic subject. Often on a different, more appropriate board just as the virtual pub.

 

This all works remarkably well too, but switching between that board is this (with its opposite policies) can be a bit of a jolt! 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Paul C said:

My point is, on some of the more low quality posts on this forum (I DO NOT include you in those, but I think we can all relate to the type of negativity observed), it is clear that certain members take for granted the free use of their soap box to type drivel and/or personal attacks on others, and aren’t that bothered if the overall effect is to drive away new members or muddy up useful threads into a social media slanging match.

 

I think boat ownership might be a bit of a red herring.  Did the people you are talking about only start to behave as you describe once they had sold their boats, or was it a longer term habit?

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13 hours ago, MrFish said:

I know I am fairly new to these forums. However I do seem to find s lot of threads that go off at huge tangents and almost completely lose sight of the original posters question. 

 

There also a lot of threads that develop into a brawl between different members.

 

These do not do this forum much in the way of favours, resulting in people wishing they had never bothered to ask a question and others being offended.

I would like to think we are all here to either share our knowledge or to increase it. This means providing factual knowledge and sharing of experience. 

 

So when a thread starts to go way of tangent and cannot be steered back to the OP question it would be a good idea to lock the thread and encourage the starting of a new thread to cover where the thread was steering towards.

And this thread is no different it seems.

 

The impression I get is that there are a fair few members who have not much to do, so come on here and argue with people.  Like an updated version of this: Old Man Yells at Cloud | Know Your Meme

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