C&RT To remove waste bins from the L&L (BBC news)

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But is that refuse from boater bin compounds or litter bins along the towpath

 

C&RT say that it is their 'total' spend on refuse.

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

But £500000 is a drop in the ocean compared to the £50M grant, or the hundreds of millions that the maintenance backlog is estimated at... 😞

 

The plans were wildly over-optimistic back-of-fag-packet estimates designed to try and get CART off the governments books -- there was never any chance in reality of this happening, or CART becoming self-sufficient.

 

Saying this is all down to CART mismanagement is just the usual CART-bashing, they've never had any real chance of achieving what's in "the plan" -- and never will do given the costs of maintaining the canals (large) and possible sources of income for CART (smaller)... 😞

I don't think anyone ever believed CRT could become self funding, any more than anyone believes any other government proposal - HS2 springs happily to mind. Hands up who really thought that would get built in its entirety? That Thames bridge? They are just popular (for a while) myths intended to get a certain immediate result while leaving someone else to clear up the longterm mess (see litterers and dog walkers).

In the current state of the economy, a navigable waterway is an unaffordable luxury, and would only be funded if we can persuade enough very,  very rich people to buy canal boats - a somewhat unlikely scenario. As a few of us have been saying for years, it's been a joy, and we should enjoy its autumnal years. Decay tends to accelerate.

[Mad Harold]

26 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think anyone ever believed CRT could become self funding, any more than anyone believes any other government proposal - HS2 springs happily to mind. Hands up who really thought that would get built in its entirety? That Thames bridge? They are just popular (for a while) myths intended to get a certain immediate result while leaving someone else to clear up the longterm mess (see litterers and dog walkers).

In the current state of the economy, a navigable waterway is an unaffordable luxury, and would only be funded if we can persuade enough very,  very rich people to buy canal boats - a somewhat unlikely scenario. As a few of us have been saying for years, it's been a joy, and we should enjoy its autumnal years. Decay tends to accelerate.

A rather pessimistic view of things that I sadly agree with.

If I can find where I have put my Trombone, can we both stand on your cabin roof and play Chopin's Funeral March?

[TheBiscuits]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

since 2012 C&RT have spent more on fund raising (paying chuggers by the hour irrespective of how much they collected

 

Isn't that a legal requirement these days?  Commission only doesn't guarantee minimum wage so isn't allowed as far as I know.

[Alan de Enfield]

54 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Isn't that a legal requirement these days?  Commission only doesn't guarantee minimum wage so isn't allowed as far as I know.

 

I have no idea but it sounds reasonable.

However it does not invalidate the point :

 

If C&RT are paying (say) £50 per day and the chuggers are only producing (say) £25 per day then it is not a viable way of raising funds and an alternative should have been evaluated - keep doing the same thing day after day, and year after year (for 10 years) and expecting a different result is the sign of insanity (credited to Albert Einstein)

[peterboat]

13 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Usual lazy stereotyping there, Peter -- my kids and their friends would no more think of spreading litter then I would, and I often see older people like you or I littering.

 

The simple fact is that there are lazy thoughtless gits of all ages who just chuck stuff away instead of taking it home or putting it in a bin... 😞

Not really Ian, around here it's the older ones doing the cleanup, the young ones in the main just drop it on the floor. Some are the exception to the rule, but mainly not. I would say it's about 2 to 8 old to young dropping rubbish?

[Ianws]

13 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Not really Ian, around here it's the older ones doing the cleanup, the young ones in the main just drop it on the floor. Some are the exception to the rule, but mainly not. I would say it's about 2 to 8 old to young dropping rubbish?

If it's 2-8 year olds dropping rubbish it's down to their parents to stop them or deal with it.

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, Ianws said:

If it's 2-8 year olds dropping rubbish it's down to their parents to stop them or deal with it.

They learned it from them! They are the problem 

[IanD]

11 hours ago, peterboat said:

Not really Ian, around here it's the older ones doing the cleanup, the young ones in the main just drop it on the floor. Some are the exception to the rule, but mainly not. I would say it's about 2 to 8 old to young dropping rubbish?

Well maybe it's different round here then, because for sure plenty of middle-aged people -- who are parents, who teach their children -- also drop litter.

 

I do agree that older people are less likely to drop litter and more likely to pick it up -- because that's what our parents taught us to do -- but the kids of today learn from their parents (as mine did).

 

So blame the parents, not the kids... 😉

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Well maybe it's different round here then, because for sure plenty of middle-aged people -- who are parents, who teach their children -- also drop litter.

 

I do agree that older people are less likely to drop litter and more likely to pick it up -- because that's what our parents taught us to do -- but the kids of today learn from their parents (as mine did).

 

So blame the parents, not the kids... 😉

I am not disagreeing with you, kids generally do what there parents teach them unless dont want to for some reason

[SLC]

I note that the Express and Star is reporting that a Tory MP is said "I attended the annual general meeting of the Shrewsbury & Newport Canals Trust and believe the restoration of the Shrewsbury canal from the Flaxmill to Norbury, where it would join the Shropshire Union Canal, a total distance of 24.75 miles, would be a wonderful way of increasing tourism in our area.

"A feasibility study, carried out by Shrewsbury & Newport Canals Trust, determined that the project is most definitely feasible and estimated the overall cost of restoration at £86m.

Basically, recognising the benefits the canals bring to his area he wants £70m from the Treasury - CRT only gets £50m to maintain the whole network! Isn't it typical that you can get money (capital) to invest in new projects but try getting money for maintaining that project. No-one thinks of that.

Near us some social housing has been built. Politically correct in some people's eyes but the anti-social element has increased and as always no-one does anything about it. Litter and (unsightly) rubbish piled outside blows in the wind everywhere and local graffiti (on the canal) has increased. No doubt people will hammer me for saying this but it is an uncomfortable fact that really needs addressing but of course will never happen.

Finally, I was looking at the creed written on a playground in a junior school in an affluent rural community. It encouraged children to be confident in themselves, to express their own individuality and to work together (as a school) to achieve results. No doubt Ofsted would love it and likewise other schools will have copied it but there was one thing which struck me. It was almost a creed for gang culture - there was no mention of respect for others, the environment or the impact of what you do either as a group or as an individual on others outside the group. That really is what we are talking about here when discussing litter - respecting others and understanding what you do and how it affects others. Schools can do so much more but appear afraid to do so. Parental interference or pressure perhaps? Another rant over.

[matty40s]

https://twitter.com/CanalRiverTrust/status/1642800929886859265?s=20

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

https://twitter.com/CanalRiverTrust/status/1642800929886859265?s=20

 

 

I just get a nice picture of a dog trotting on the towpath.

What should I be seeing ?

[matty40s]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I just get a nice picture of a dog trotting on the towpath.

What should I be seeing ?

Dog poo bins removed, no boats, lots of dog poo fairy bags hung in trees....CRT cant have their cake and eat it. 

If you are encouraging dog walkers, and providing maps, you cant exactly say, we are removing dog poo bins and someone else should provide them.....can you??

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Dog poo bins removed, no boats, lots of dog poo fairy bags hung in trees....CRT cant have their cake and eat it. 

If you are encouraging dog walkers, and providing maps, you cant exactly say, we are removing dog poo bins and someone else should provide them.....can you??

Yes you can if the idea is to get discussion going about who should be running the towpaths. 

 

I've said this for quite a number of yars now. Local councils should run towpaths, including the mooring thereto, as a local amenity and leave the work of the navigation management to the navigation authority. 

 

Maybe they are finally working it out. 

[dmr]

15 hours ago, SLC said:

I note that the Express and Star is reporting that a Tory MP is said "I attended the annual general meeting of the Shrewsbury & Newport Canals Trust and believe the restoration of the Shrewsbury canal from the Flaxmill to Norbury, where it would join the Shropshire Union Canal, a total distance of 24.75 miles, would be a wonderful way of increasing tourism in our area.

"A feasibility study, carried out by Shrewsbury & Newport Canals Trust, determined that the project is most definitely feasible and estimated the overall cost of restoration at £86m.

Basically, recognising the benefits the canals bring to his area he wants £70m from the Treasury - CRT only gets £50m to maintain the whole network! Isn't it typical that you can get money (capital) to invest in new projects but try getting money for maintaining that project. No-one thinks of that.

Near us some social housing has been built. Politically correct in some people's eyes but the anti-social element has increased and as always no-one does anything about it. Litter and (unsightly) rubbish piled outside blows in the wind everywhere and local graffiti (on the canal) has increased. No doubt people will hammer me for saying this but it is an uncomfortable fact that really needs addressing but of course will never happen.

Finally, I was looking at the creed written on a playground in a junior school in an affluent rural community. It encouraged children to be confident in themselves, to express their own individuality and to work together (as a school) to achieve results. No doubt Ofsted would love it and likewise other schools will have copied it but there was one thing which struck me. It was almost a creed for gang culture - there was no mention of respect for others, the environment or the impact of what you do either as a group or as an individual on others outside the group. That really is what we are talking about here when discussing litter - respecting others and understanding what you do and how it affects others. Schools can do so much more but appear afraid to do so. Parental interference or pressure perhaps? Another rant over.

In an ideal world when a housing estate is built the "builder" or council should be responsible for funding the repair of any damage caused, like graffiti removal and more police, but in a PC world this can't happen.

Where I used to live the council built a social housing estate which caused a very significant increase in crime, and the locals wanted something done. The council employed "consultants" who concluded that it was not the people (known criminals) on the estate that were respomsible for the crimewave, but criminals from elesewhere travelling to the area to commit crimes knowing that the new residents rather than themselves would get the blame.

 

Its very sad when a good bit a canal becomes a "no-go/dash through in the early morning" place due to a housing estate.

[Peanut]

Great, isn't it, no one needs to take responsibility for their dog's poo, or McDonald's wrapper, or any old rubbish.  Just chuck it in a bush or hang it in a tree.  The Council is to blame, or CART, someone else anyway. It's their responsibility, they should clear it up, we pay them, don't we?

[ditchcrawler]

14 hours ago, matty40s said:

Dog poo bins removed, no boats, lots of dog poo fairy bags hung in trees....CRT cant have their cake and eat it. 

If you are encouraging dog walkers, and providing maps, you cant exactly say, we are removing dog poo bins and someone else should provide them.....can you??

All new CRT dog poo bins on the B&F as far as the top of Curdworth