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Purchased a canal boat with incorrect history - help!


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Hi,

 

Two weeks ago, I bought a canal boat. I was told by the seller that it was made in the 1990's. I also looked at a hull survey which said the base plate was 9.6mm thick.

 

I have since found out it was refitted in the 1990's, but a boat engineer thought it was more likely made in the 1970's. From what I can find online, she was: Built by Teddesley Boat Co. - Length : 11.27 metres ( 37 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.61 metres ( 2 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 48 HP

 

A boat surveyor I spoke to said it's very unlikely for a boat from the 1970's to have had 10mm baseplates which (after finding a lot of secret hidden issues) has made me wonder whether the hull survey was potentially faked.

 

If anyone has any information on how to find out more about the boat without paying for a full survey I would hugely appreciate it as I'm suddenly quite poor, haha!

 

Thank you so much.

 

Iona

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45 minutes ago, ionayes said:

Hi,

 

Two weeks ago, I bought a canal boat. I was told by the seller that it was made in the 1990's. I also looked at a hull survey which said the base plate was 9.6mm thick.

 

I have since found out it was refitted in the 1990's, but a boat engineer thought it was more likely made in the 1970's. From what I can find online, she was: Built by Teddesley Boat Co. - Length : 11.27 metres ( 37 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.61 metres ( 2 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 48 HP

 

A boat surveyor I spoke to said it's very unlikely for a boat from the 1970's to have had 10mm baseplates which (after finding a lot of secret hidden issues) has made me wonder whether the hull survey was potentially faked.

 

If anyone has any information on how to find out more about the boat without paying for a full survey I would hugely appreciate it as I'm suddenly quite poor, haha!

 

Thank you so much.

 

Iona

 

The baot registration number can give an indication of age - UNLESS it was on another Navigation authority waters for (say) 20 years) and only came onto C&RT waters later.

 

What is the reg number ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, ionayes said:

If anyone has any information on how to find out more about the boat without paying for a full survey I would hugely appreciate it as I'm suddenly quite poor, haha!

 

 

Are you keen to find out more simply out of curiosity or are you planning to go back to the seller and ask for a refund based on misrepresentation? 

 

If the latter I think you'll face an uphill struggle. 

 

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1 hour ago, ionayes said:

 

I have since found out it was refitted in the 1990's, but a boat engineer thought it was more likely made in the 1970's. From what I can find online, she was: Built by Teddesley Boat Co. - Length : 11.27 metres ( 37 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.61 metres ( 2 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 48 HP

Teddesley Boat Co were building boats in the 70s and possibly into the 80s, but I'm pretty sure they stopped long before the 90s. 6mm baseplate would be the norm for a boat of that age. 

Teddesley's boats had steel hulls and fibreglass cabins. So is your cabin fibreglass? If its steel that could have been put on in the 90s when the boat was refitted.

Was the survey commissioned by you, or is it an earlier one shown to you by the vendor? Do you have a copy of the survey or the name of the surveyor? Was this a private sale or from a broker/boatyard?

If you post a picture or two folks here can give you better advice.

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

You can look up the details on 

canalplanac ..... Boat Listing, not sure how details are updated 

 

I think that's where the data in the OPs post comes from.

It is based on info supplied by owners when applying for a licence, and is not independently verified, so treat with care.

And I think since BW became CRT they have stopped providing the information, so the list is rather dated now.

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14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The baot registration number can give an indication of age - UNLESS it was on another Navigation authority waters for (say) 20 years) and only came onto C&RT waters later.

 

What is the reg number ?

 

 

 

Not necessarily. My 1995 boat has a 5 digit licence number starting with 54, but there are older boats with 6 digit numbers and even some 5 digit ones above 54 which are older. I gather that in the mid 1990's BWW found a batch of old unused numbers and decided to use them up before reverting to 6 digit numbers again.

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34 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

Not necessarily. My 1995 boat has a 5 digit licence number starting with 54, but there are older boats with 6 digit numbers and even some 5 digit ones above 54 which are older. I gather that in the mid 1990's BWW found a batch of old unused numbers and decided to use them up before reverting to 6 digit numbers again.

Our early/mid 80s narrowboat had a 5 digit number beginning  71xxx. Its replacement which we had built in 1991 or so was given a 5 digit number beginning 49xxx

Edited by BilgePump
removed some odd colour formatting of text
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35 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

Not necessarily. My 1995 boat has a 5 digit licence number starting with 54, but there are older boats with 6 digit numbers and even some 5 digit ones above 54 which are older. I gather that in the mid 1990's BWW found a batch of old unused numbers and decided to use them up before reverting to 6 digit numbers again.

 

That figures. Our 1996 built boat was numbered 5000xx. 

 

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I don't think they do this any more (issue new numbers) as you would then have an extra pair of real pressed number plates which could be used fraudulently. 

 

The thing with BW and CRT number plates is you can't get them made by anyone else. Well not easily anyway. 

 

 

 

 

I suppose there might be examples where the original number is impossible to find out. 

Edited by magnetman
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15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I don't think they do this any more (issue new numbers) as you would then have an extra pair of real pressed number plates which could be used fraudulently. 

 

The thing with BW and CRT number plates is you can't get them made by anyone else. Well not easily anyway. 

 

 

 

 

I suppose there might be examples where the original number is impossible to find out. 

But you don't have to have plates. Just paint the number on

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9 minutes ago, Tonka said:

But you don't have to have plates. Just paint the number on

 

That is interesting and yes of course people do paint the numbers on but I think somewhere there may possibly be a technical requirement to display the original index number plates. 

 

If not then why would they be issued? 

 

Good point. 

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1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I don't think they do this any more (issue new numbers) as you would then have an extra pair of real pressed number plates which could be used fraudulently. 

 

The thing with BW and CRT number plates is you can't get them made by anyone else. Well not easily anyway. 

 

 

 

 

I suppose there might be examples where the original number is impossible to find out. 

Pressed plates being issued with a new reg are a thing of the past. My most recent reg number (12xxxxx) issued in 2019 just needed to be printed out on paper, laminated and stuck in the windows. They did send me some stick-on ones after a good while but never got round to putting them on the boat. Thinking about it, stick on numbers have been issued for over a decade. The sailing boat and trailer boat have both got registration number stickers from before me, approx 2010 and 2016, but not currently CaRT licensed. It should be possible to relicense them under the existing number or just get a new one and stick it over the old.

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If the boat was so much older, probably built with 6mm base, would overplating explain the higher reading? If a boat's been through a few owners, the full history is probably not known.

Most surveys aren't worth the paper they're written on, and one donated by the seller less than that. It was probably done when they bought the boat so well out of date and useful for indications only.

Take it to a reputable yard when you next get it blacked  and ask them for their opinion. I got better advice about the state of the hull from the guy blacking mine than I ever did from anyone else.

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1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

That is interesting and yes of course people do paint the numbers on but I think somewhere there may possibly be a technical requirement to display the original index number plates. 

 

If not then why would they be issued? 

 

Good point. 

if you had a GRP boat CRT used to issue you a vinyl sticker and not a plate. How would you keep that 

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I know about the stickers but these are a recent thing. Older GRP boats will have pressed aluminium plates. 

 

I just think that to avoid fraud the original plates need to be displayed. 

 

Maybe not but it seems likely it is buried in a byelaw somewhere. 

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2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

That is interesting and yes of course people do paint the numbers on but I think somewhere there may possibly be a technical requirement to display the original index number plates. 

 

If not then why would they be issued? 

 

Good point. 

 

I don't believe there is any requirement for the standardised plates, so long as the number is displayed in an appropriate way, (which would include the digits being large enough).

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Yes there are gaps and inconsistencies but if your boat registration number appears on this list it gives you a rough idea of its age (unless it spent its early years somewhere else and only got its reg-number when it came onto BW / C&RT waters)

 

Boat Registration Number By Date

 

Reg number: Date first registered with B.W:
60011 to 70561 1980/1*
77500 to 77599 1980/1*
77700 to 79999 1980/1*
76000 to 77499 1982
77600 to 77699 1982
73000 to 73099 1983
75000 to 75399 1983
70562 to 71580 1984
71581 to 72567 1985
72568 to 72599 1986
73100 to 73800 1986
72600 to 72999 1987
73801 to 74856 1987
45501 to 45505 1988
74857 to 74999 1988
75400 to 75999 1988
45506 to 47299 1989
47300 to 49586 1990
49587 to 51320 1991
51321 to 52606 1992
52607 to 53554 1993
53555 to 54394 1994
54395 to 55000 1995
500010 to 500398 1995
500399 to 501364 1996
501365 to 502357 1997
502358 to 503369 1998
503370 to 504424 1999
504425 to 2000
* = System first launched for 1980/1 so boats listed as this will include craft built before this date

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7 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Pressed plates being issued with a new reg are a thing of the past. My most recent reg number (12xxxxx) issued in 2019 just needed to be printed out on paper, laminated and stuck in the windows. They did send me some stick-on ones after a good while but never got round to putting them on the boat. Thinking about it, stick on numbers have been issued for over a decade. The sailing boat and trailer boat have both got registration number stickers from before me, approx 2010 and 2016, but not currently CaRT licensed. It should be possible to relicense them under the existing number or just get a new one and stick it over the old.

 

That's funny, because when I pre-registered my boat a couple of weeks ago I got a pair of metal plates in the post...

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13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

That is interesting and yes of course people do paint the numbers on but I think somewhere there may possibly be a technical requirement to display the original index number plates. 

 

If not then why would they be issued? 

 

Good point. 

 

They issue 'sticky-backed-plastic' "number plates" for GRP boats, so steel plates are not required.

 

The only stipulation is that ...........................

 

 

Marking of vessels .

(1) Every vessel on any canal shall have exhibited on the outside thereof so as to be clearly legible at all times at a distance of twenty yards

(i) her name and such index mark and number (if any) as the Board shall have assigned to the vessel

 

 

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

That's funny, because when I pre-registered my boat a couple of weeks ago I got a pair of metal plates in the post...

 

 

I think that if you pay (it was £25) you get the metal ones, if you don't, you 'print your own' on a bit of paper.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Just now, IanD said:

 

That's funny, because when I pre-registered my boat a couple of weeks ago I got a pair of metal plates in the post...

Already been answered by a poster above when I realised that all three from 2010 were GRP registrations. Could have paid for pressed plates but didn't.

 

Alan's listed numbers tally with the two 71xxx and 49xxx narrowboats we had.

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