Help needed carpentry and electrics

[Alan de Enfield]

Boy - that  is a total fit-out and as has been said could well be something like £40,000 to do it properly.

[MtB]

To do it well, the shell needs stripping out back to steel and all that OSB taking to the tip. This alone will cost perhaps £3k paying other people to do it. Then sprayfoam, rewire and new fit-out will be several tens of £k. 

 

Best advice is sell the boat on to someone else willing to do the work themselves and buy another boat already in good order. It will be FAR cheaper. 

 

Alan will post his "You know it makes sense" pic shortly! 

 

 

[chrisk_87]

lol i can do a lot of work myself ie rip out insulate its just the electric tyding need help with. have refurbed 4 houses previiously. can source all materials myself and fit bathroom kitchen etc just need a bit of hand with rear engine room woodwork 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Alan will post his "You know it makes sense" pic shortly! 

 

 

 

Be careful what you wish for .............................

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Rewiring is possibly the sensible thing to do, it would take ages to sort out and tidy that mess.

The mains wiring looks to have been done in flat twin and earth house wiring cable which is totally unsuitable on a boat as it is not multi strand flex  and will fracture with vibration,- so they say -.

 

Its a big bill for a pro to strip all that out, salvage the control panel such as it is and the instruments and rewire the whole lot. A lot of the T&G lining will have to come down to get the new stuff in. Then you may find a lot more problems, like lack of thermal insulation.

 

Do you love the boat? Could you cut your losses and sell it? Why did you buy it, presumably without a survey?

Does it have a current BSS?

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, chrisk_87 said:

lol i can do a lot of work myself ie rip out insulate its just the electric tyding need help with. have refurbed 4 houses previiously. can source all materials myself and fit bathroom kitchen etc just need a bit of hand with rear engine room woodwork 

 

 

Make your mind up, you said you wanted other tradesmen to do it.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, chrisk_87 said:

lol i can do a lot of work myself ie rip out insulate its just the electric tyding need help with. have refurbed 4 houses previiously. can source all materials myself and fit bathroom kitchen etc just need a bit of hand with rear engine room woodwork 

 

You are aware that there are regulations for wiring, gas, water etc etc for boats AND they are very very different to domestic wiring regs.

 

As one example - you cannot use T&E cable in a boat.

Another : you do not choose a cable based on its current rating but you choose it based on Volt Drop.

 

You will certianly need to develop a host of new skills and forget everything you have previously learned.

[Tony Brooks]

I think that is a 3 to 5 year spare time project, and doing it yourself is likely to cost many thousands in materials, that is if you have the boat specific knowledge and skills. In reality, it is a total refit to do what you specified. House knowledge is not enough. Unless you have an exceptionally special attachment to the boat, or you have vast amounts of money to waste, I agree with the others, a professional job will cost more than the boat is then worth.

 

I see that you seem to have mains aboard via a shoreline. That needs wiring in arctic three core flex. All twin and earth wiring should come out and be replaced with complaint multi-strand cable (I think a minimum of 20 strands, but don't quote me on that.)

 

The cabin sides look as if they are lined with large boards, so you might get them out for reuse, but the hull sides look like tongue and groove, I doubt that will come out and be reusable.

 

There seems to be water stains around the porthole, so the potholes and windows may well have to come out for the rust beneath the frames to be dealt with and the resealed.

 

The wiring you show looks awful but with patience and a roll of looming tape I am sure it could be much improved, but you will probably have to disconnect some wires, one at a time, so you can route them for best neatness.  I find small zipties and the special ziptie to screw fixings help make a neat job. A professional would not take the time to do that, so would probably just rip it all out.

 

Change the torpedo fuse box for a modern push in blade fuse one. Chock block wiring connectors are bad practice and if you must use them, fit bootlace ferals onto the cable ends.

 

I note that around the hole in the floor, the board looks decidedly soft.

 

I fear that as you dismantle, you will find more and more that needs attention. I think that you will run out of money and patience long before this could be completed as a DIY project. The more you strip out the less the boat is worth until it is completed. I am with those who advise that you cut your losses and sell it for what you can get for it before spending any more money on it, possibly apart from a goat of London White paint to the interior.

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[chrisk_87]

jeez whats with all the negativity. i may aswell scrap it according to you lol 

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Maybe, but who knows until he makes what he wants clear. If it is still boarded, then many of the circuits are likely to still be in place. At resent just telling the "professional" that he wants the boat rewiring, I fear he is setting himself up for a potential rip-off.

I thought he meant the boat needs insulating.

25 minutes ago, chrisk_87 said:

jeez whats with all the negativity. i may aswell scrap it according to you lol 

Calm down  and have a think about this, the forumites who have responded are very experienced, they have in depth knowledge of every aspect of boats, including costs, and they are trying to give you the best advice. 

It's one thing to restore something special, and end up with a really good boat. It's another to spend a lot of valuable time, an awful lot of money, and end up with something very ordinary.

If the hull is sound then you still have a saleable boat, if the hull is not sound, it's probably not going to end well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I suspect with DropBox you can alter the permissions.

 

So you can probably set the folder viewing permission to (something like) "Anyone can view".

Or maybe "Public"

That is correct, I do it to share things with friends and they can then add them to the page for me to see, but they can only access that one page, not anything else I have on DB

[chrisk_87]

20 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought he meant the boat needs insulating.

Calm down .

Is this an old boat which still works, but needs updating, or a sail away which works. 

Assuming it's a boat that needs upgrading, what is your intention, occasional cruising or liveaboard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its a 94 mike haywoood 50ft trad i had hull survey when brought it. i have done full bare metal paint outdise it was blacked in july last year by no means do i need to cut my losses lol. was looking for advice maybe point in right direction bit of help not sell it and buy one thats done

[Bee]

Cor! That wiring will take some sorting and there is even a bit of 240v twin & earth which might not be acceptable. The boat has probably had several owners, many people working on it who bodged in another circuit with any old cable and I don't think its worth trying to understand it. You need to work out where the various cabins are going then plan where the lights, pumps, everything, is going, work out cable sizing, and plan the whole thing out properly.  There is probably a couple of years work for one person there working every weekend and holiday and a hell of a lot of materials - and even then it won't be finished. It's a big job - and then there's the plumbing.... . You need to be ruthlessly efficient, spend evenings searching e bay for materials, chop up all the rubbish so it'll fit in the car and take it to the tip every few days, keep the thing tidy and never nail anything permanently hidden. Good luck.

[matty40s]

I had a closer look...

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, chrisk_87 said:

jeez whats with all the negativity. i may aswell scrap it according to you lol 

 

Yes that may be the best way forward - but be prepared for the scrap value to be very low, as the labour to cut it up into managable pieces can actually cost more that the scrap (by weight) value.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, chrisk_87 said:

jeez whats with all the negativity. i may aswell scrap it according to you lol 

 

 

Corblimey, a second one today who only wants to hear advice he (or perhaps she) agrees with! 

 

 

[chrisk_87]

23 minutes ago, Bee said:

Cor! That wiring will take some sorting and there is even a bit of 240v twin & earth which might not be acceptable. The boat has probably had several owners, many people working on it who bodged in another circuit with any old cable and I don't think its worth trying to understand it. You need to work out where the various cabins are going then plan where the lights, pumps, everything, is going, work out cable sizing, and plan the whole thing out properly.  There is probably a couple of years work for one person there working every weekend and holiday and a hell of a lot of materials - and even then it won't be finished. It's a big job - and then there's the plumbing.... . You need to be ruthlessly efficient, spend evenings searching e bay for materials, chop up all the rubbish so it'll fit in the car and take it to the tip every few days, keep the thing tidy and never nail anything permanently hidden. Good luck.

its a one owner from when built 

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes that may be the best way forward - but be prepared for the scrap value to be very low, as the labour to cut it up into managable pieces can actually cost more that the scrap (by weight) value.

you obviously know nothing about scrap  lol 

[mrsmelly]

OMG what a mess. It will be much quicker/easier to rip everything out and start again. I did a full fit starting with a new shell, everything from new so much easier than what you have and it still took me well over a year working several days a week on it and with some help. Of course it is doable but dont underestimate whats involved 👍

[chrisk_87]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Corblimey, a second one today who only wants to hear advice he (or perhaps she) agrees with! 

 

 

what with everyone saying cut you losses i brought it as a project i will ffinish it. isnt thats what this forum is about advice and help like people on the canal not to judge jeez bunch of no doubters and cant does. if you seen it when i brought it to now you would be amazed 

[chrisk_87]

anyway thanks for the advise and none help and negativity i guess ill be leaving here and returning to the real world where things can be done and will be done bye bye 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, chrisk_87 said:

you obviously know nothing about scrap  lol 

 

 

Ok lets take a realistic view.

 

Mild steel scrap is currently £100 per tonne.

 

You will need a crane to lift it onto a truck - cost anywhere up to £1000 depending on if you can share the cost with someone else, access and size of crane.

£500+ for a truck.

Labour to cut it up into managable pieces at £30 per hour - probably 20+ hours.

 

Income from the scrap 15 tonnes at £100 = £1500

Costs - £1800 ?

 

I have known people give boats away as it works out cheaper for them than having it cut up and disposed of.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

Assuming the shell is sound this is doable, although there is a lot to do.

The back end and ceiling look to have been well fitted out originally in t&g, whereas the plywood and osb lining in the rest is a bit rough.

You say this is one owner from new, which surprises me. It has the look of a boat which has gone downhill a bit and then one or more bodgit owners has attempted some refitting before giving up and selling it on.

The wiring looks a mess, but again what appears to be original wiring is neatly done with the right cabling (albeit torpedo fuse boxes), whereas later additions have been bodged in twin and earth. Some of the original may be salvageable if you can remove all the additions and then redo them properly. But there will be a fair bit of cable tracing to do first to work out what is what.

I would be tempted to look behind the lining in a few places first to see what insulation is present. If it's basically sound then you might get away with leaving some of the cabin lining in place. If not you need to strip out entirely and replace it. If you strip the whole boat out you can get it professionally sprayfoamed. If you are doing a section at a time then diy cellotex or kingspan glued to the inside of the shell (after repainting if necessary) would be better. Ensure complete coverage including places like under the gunwales and shell framing - aerosol sprayfoam can be used to fill any odd gaps - and tape all joints with the proper metallised tape.

It's a big job, and you won't see the time and money spent back in the value of the boat, but if you have the time, skills and money and enjoy doing the work, go ahead!

[chrisk_87]

39 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Ok lets take a realistic view.

 

Mild steel scrap is currently £100 per tonne.

 

You will need a crane to lift it onto a truck - cost anywhere up to £1000 depending on if you can share the cost with someone else, access and size of crane.

£500+ for a truck.

Labour to cut it up into managable pieces at £30 per hour - probably 20+ hours.

 

Income from the scrap 15 tonnes at £100 = £1500

Costs - £1800 ?

 

I have known people give boats away as it works out cheaper for them than having it cut up and disposed of.

 

lol 1000 for a crane 500 for a truck what you mean cut it up it goes as it is as heavy iron pal can get a boat out water for less than £500 and transported. its not what you know its who you know 

32 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Assuming the shell is sound this is doable, although there is a lot to do.

The back end and ceiling look to have been well fitted out originally in t&g, whereas the plywood and osb lining in the rest is a bit rough.

You say this is one owner from new, which surprises me. It has the look of a boat which has gone downhill a bit and then one or more bodgit owners has attempted some refitting before giving up and selling it on.

The wiring looks a mess, but again what appears to be original wiring is neatly done with the right cabling (albeit torpedo fuse boxes), whereas later additions have been bodged in twin and earth. Some of the original may be salvageable if you can remove all the additions and then redo them properly. But there will be a fair bit of cable tracing to do first to work out what is what.

I would be tempted to look behind the lining in a few places first to see what insulation is present. If it's basically sound then you might get away with leaving some of the cabin lining in place. If not you need to strip out entirely and replace it. If you strip the whole boat out you can get it professionally sprayfoamed. If you are doing a section at a time then diy cellotex or kingspan glued to the inside of the shell (after repainting if necessary) would be better. Ensure complete coverage including places like under the gunwales and shell framing - aerosol sprayfoam can be used to fill any odd gaps - and tape all joints with the proper metallised tape.

It's a big job, and you won't see the time and money spent back in the value of the boat, but if you have the time, skills and money and enjoy doing the work, go ahead!

thanks about the first positive comment yet. it is one owner he fitted it out when he brought it. 

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Ok lets take a realistic view.

 

Mild steel scrap is currently £100 per tonne.

 

You will need a crane to lift it onto a truck - cost anywhere up to £1000 depending on if you can share the cost with someone else, access and size of crane.

£500+ for a truck.

Labour to cut it up into managable pieces at £30 per hour - probably 20+ hours.

 

Income from the scrap 15 tonnes at £100 = £1500

Costs - £1800 ?

 

I have known people give boats away as it works out cheaper for them than having it cut up and disposed of.

 

if any boats going free ill take them no matter where it is in the country 

3 minutes ago, chrisk_87 said:

lol 1000 for a crane 500 for a truck what you mean cut it up it goes as it is as heavy iron pal can get a boat out water for less than £500 and transported. its not what you know its who you know 

thanks about the first positive comment yet. it is one owner he fitted it out when he brought it. 

if any boats going free ill take them no matter where it is in the country 

and that is full steel narrowboats  no plastic 

49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Ok lets take a realistic view.

 

Mild steel scrap is currently £100 per tonne.

 

You will need a crane to lift it onto a truck - cost anywhere up to £1000 depending on if you can share the cost with someone else, access and size of crane.

£500+ for a truck.

Labour to cut it up into managable pieces at £30 per hour - probably 20+ hours.

 

Income from the scrap 15 tonnes at £100 = £1500

Costs - £1800 ?

 

I have known people give boats away as it works out cheaper for them than having it cut up and disposed of.

 

also if you did your own maths its not = £1800 it is infact what you calculated =£2100. schooled 

crane £1000 according to you. 

 

transport according to you £500+
 

20 hours labour to cut into manageable pieces as you say £30 per hour = 600

 

Total cost = £2100 + with you plus on transport   

12 minutes ago, chrisk_87 said:

lol 1000 for a crane 500 for a truck what you mean cut it up it goes as it is as heavy iron pal can get a boat out water for less than £500 and transported. its not what you know its who you know 

thanks about the first positive comment yet. it is one owner he fitted it out when he brought it. 

if any boats going free ill take them no matter where it is in the country 

and that is full steel narrowboats  no plastic 

also if you did your own maths its not = £1800 it is infact what you calculated =£2100. schooled 

crane £1000 according to you. 

 

transport according to you £500+
 

20 hours labour to cut into manageable pieces as you say £30 per hour = 600

 

Total cost = £2100 + with you plus on transport   

sorry to dissapoint the porn star 😂

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, chrisk_87 said:

also if you did your own maths its not = £1800 it is infact what you calculated =£2100. schooled 

crane £1000 according to you. 

 

transport according to you £500+
 

20 hours labour to cut into manageable pieces as you say £30 per hour = 600

 

Total cost = £2100 + with you plus on transport  

 

Sadly your comprehension seems to be somewhat lacking.

 

I gave the worst case prices for a crane and the size of crane needed  when I said ".......cost anywhere up to £1000 depending"......... - yes you can get a cheaper smaller crane depending on access - we needed to get a 100 tonne crane in to lift 11-12 tonne boats due to the necessary 'reach' that cost £4000 for the day.

 

If you added together my figures you'd have seen that I used mid price of ~£700 for a crane.

[Paul C]

I still haven't seen the pics. Everyone else can put them in a forum post, so they show up on the screen. Not clicking links etc just to see pics.