Several boats set to be removed from Bridgwater & Taunton Canal

[magnetman]

1968 Transport act section 104. 

 

The CRT have no obligation to maintain this waterway as it is a remainder waterway. 

 

Could the move to extract the boats without moorings be a precusor to withdrawing maintenance completely? 

 

It has been mentioned earlier on but it seems the relevant topic here. 

 

Is the Bridgwater and Taunton canal about to fall into disuse? 

Could this be a precedent for other remainder waterways. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by magnetman

[MtB]

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

1968 Transport act section 104. 

 

The CRT have no obligation to maintain this waterway as it is a remainder waterway. 

 

Could the move to extract the boats without moorings be a precusor to withdrawing maintenance completely? 

 

It has been mentioned earlier on but it seems the relevant topic here. 

 

Is the Bridgwater and Taunton canal about to fall into disuse? 

Could this be a precedent for other remainder waterways. 

 

I think it was me suggested this earlier in the thread. Yes I reckon it is a test case. See how it goes and if no serious shyte hits the fan from turning it into a linear duck pond then expect more of the same, probably starting with the Rochdale. 

 

I expect Pareto's Law applies here actually. 80% of CRT expenditure on maintenance is for the benefit of 20% of boat traffic, so it make sense to stop maintaining the expensive bits which few boaters use, first.

 

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

On 27/03/2023 at 14:43, MtB said:

 

 

You have no coherent argument which is why you've resorted to personal abuse here, yourself, when presented with your dross being picked apart and demonstrated as wrong.

 

 

Another characteristically foolish and ignorant post.

If in doubt, insult, but never, ever,  engage in discussion. Fair enough.

[IanD]

10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I think it was me suggested this earlier in the thread. Yes I reckon it is a test case. See how it goes and if no serious shyte hits the fan from turning it into a linear duck pond then expect more of the same, probably starting with the Rochdale. 

 

I expect Pareto's Law applies here actually. 80% of CRT expenditure on maintenance is for the benefit of 20% of boat traffic, so it make sense to stop maintaining the expensive bits which few boaters use, first.

 

 

Except trying this with either the Rochdale or the HNC would get CART into hot water from the various bodies who funded their restoration, IIRC they have contracts with CART to keep the canals open for quite a few years yet.

 

The second part does make sense, but where could CART actually do this -- not "OMG CART are going to close the canals down!!!" but in reality, given funding constraints like this?

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Except trying this with either the Rochdale or the HNC would get CART into hot water from the various bodies who funded their restoration, IIRC they have contracts with CART to keep the canals open for quite a few years yet.

 

The second part does make sense, but where could CART actually do this -- not "OMG CART are going to close the canals down!!!" but in reality, given funding constraints like this?

 

Yes I had in the back of my mind there was a reason NOT to start with the Rochdale which is why I said 'probably'. Should have said 'possibly'! 

 

Maybe a better candidate for the next abandonment after the B&T might be the far end of the Ashby. Start by getting it declared a SSSI which would be a first class excuse to stop maintaining it as a navigation.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, MtB said:

Maybe a better candidate for the next abandonment after the B&T might be the far end of the Ashby.

 

Or the Mon & Brec due to ongoing breaches and maintenace costs, plus the fact that it will affect a minimum number of boaters.

[peterboat]

I suspect this is why CRT haven't given commercial boats any help on the A & C really. They stopped the boats running at the first hurdle when the fishermen protested. Fortunately it's back on Track, but if anything it needs expanding and the piling which is falling in needs replacement before we have another breach 

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I suspect this is why CRT haven't given commercial boats any help on the A & C really. They stopped the boats running at the first hurdle when the fishermen protested. Fortunately it's back on Track, but if anything it needs expanding and the piling which is falling in needs replacement before we have another breach 

I thought the A&C was classed as a commercial waterway, which makes it even harder for CART to wriggle out of any responsibility for it?

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Yes I had in the back of my mind there was a reason NOT to start with the Rochdale which is why I said 'probably'. Should have said 'possibly'! 

 

Maybe a better candidate for the next abandonment after the B&T might be the far end of the Ashby. Start by getting it declared a SSSI which would be a first class excuse to stop maintaining it as a navigation.

 

 

Not much point though, the Ashby has no locks so must be far cheaper to maintain... 😉

[Paul C]

There is a subset of remainder waterways which DO NOT have any existing contractual agreement elsewhere requiring it to be kept navigable/open/maintained etc.

 

Its a valid question, why should CRT spend on these if it represents poor value for money?

[magnetman]

Also it appears from the legislation (I am not a lawyer) that the CRT, with the assistance of the sec of state, can transfer other waterways into the category of 'remainder'.

 

K&A has for a long time sat in my head as one which might get closed.

 

Maybe they can't do it but it happened before and it must  be an expensive one to deal with while not being part of a practical cruising ring.

[magpie patrick]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Maybe they can't do it but it happened before and it must  be an expensive one to deal with while not being part of a practical cruising ring.

 It's only about ten years since the K&A became a Cruiseway! 

 

Also, the Llangollen isn't part of a cruising ring either... 

 

The K&A has a lot of boats on it, the western end may be known for liveaboards, but it also has a high concentration of hire boats

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

57 minutes ago, IanD said:

I thought the A&C was classed as a commercial waterway, which makes it even harder for CART to wriggle out of any responsibility for it?

 

Not much point though, the Ashby has no locks so must be far cheaper to maintain... 😉

There’s 3 locks on Ashby. 
Not linked up yet but hopefully they will be. 

[dmr]

13 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I think it was me suggested this earlier in the thread. Yes I reckon it is a test case. See how it goes and if no serious shyte hits the fan from turning it into a linear duck pond then expect more of the same, probably starting with the Rochdale. 

 

I expect Pareto's Law applies here actually. 80% of CRT expenditure on maintenance is for the benefit of 20% of boat traffic, so it make sense to stop maintaining the expensive bits which few boaters use, first.

 

 

 

 

 

But this is said by somebody who has never visited the Rochdale.

Its a spectacular and much valued canal, and relatively busy at one end. Its just the Manchester and Rochdale bits that is under-used and gets it the bad reputation.

If you type "Hebden Bridge" into google and select images you will find that about 25% of the pictures are of the canal even though Hebden itself is a very attractive town. Likewise the Todmorden council website has a good percentage of canal photos.

[matty40s]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

But this is said by somebody who has never visited the Rochdale.

Its a spectacular and much valued canal, and relatively busy at one end. Its just the Manchester and Rochdale bits that is under-used and gets it the bad reputation.

If you type "Hebden Bridge" into google and select images you will find that about 25% of the pictures are of the canal even though Hebden itself is a very attractive town. Likewise the Todmorden council website has a good percentage of canal photos.

That's why they called it the Happy Valley isnt it.....😉

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

But this is said by somebody who has never visited the Rochdale.

Its a spectacular and much valued canal, and relatively busy at one end. Its just the Manchester and Rochdale bits that is under-used and gets it the bad reputation.

If you type "Hebden Bridge" into google and select images you will find that about 25% of the pictures are of the canal even though Hebden itself is a very attractive town. Likewise the Todmorden council website has a good percentage of canal photos.

I think those villages would be quite hard hit without the boats. There’s enough home moorers and passing boaters that they’d feel quite a loss without them using the shops and pubs. And of course the permanent boaters having jobs there. 

 

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Or the Mon & Brec due to ongoing breaches and maintenace costs, plus the fact that it will affect a minimum number of boaters.

That would cause a huge battle with both the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority and the Welsh Government.

[dmr]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I think those villages would be quite hard hit without the boats. There’s enough home moorers and passing boaters that they’d feel quite a loss without them using the shops and pubs. And of course the permanent boaters having jobs there. 

 

 

Tod has just got a lump of dosh from a levelling up fund and high on the list of local desires is to improve the link between town and canal. The locals have also just faught a good campaign to prevent a hotel getting built on the little car park below Shop Lock which would have compromised the view of the town from the canal.

3 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

That would cause a huge battle with both the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority and the Welsh Government.

 

So closing canals is going to be difficult and unpopular.....maybe some bits of the BCN would not be missed 😀

CRT have likely backed the wrong horse putting so much effort into public access to get the government grant.

All the engagement officers etc will have to go. Boat licences need to go up, CRT need to concentrate on big infrastructure maintanance and volunteers (especially boaters) will have to take on a lot more routine maintanance. Those who want to live cheaply on the cut without making a contribution will have to go, but the willing ones could maybe get a tiny income for some hard work?)

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

That's why they called it the Happy Valley isnt it.....😉

Not exactly

[magpie patrick]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

There’s 3 locks on Ashby. 
Not linked up yet but hopefully they will be. 

 Okay -  how do you get to three? 

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 Okay -  how do you get to three? 

Walk

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

9 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 Okay -  how do you get to three? 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Goliath

[IanD]

2 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 It's only about ten years since the K&A became a Cruiseway! 

 

Also, the Llangollen isn't part of a cruising ring either... 

 

The K&A has a lot of boats on it, the western end may be known for liveaboards, but it also has a high concentration of hire boats

 

The Llangollen is also a vital water feeder, which is why it was never closed...

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

There’s 3 locks on Ashby. 
Not linked up yet but hopefully they will be. 

So not part of the canal owned/administered by CART then?

[magpie patrick]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Walk

 Very good, the Coat Faerie is on his way...  

 

I mean, I am struggling to find three locks on the Ashby Canal unless the one at Moira counts as two, or possibly all three?

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

There is a subset of remainder waterways which DO NOT have any existing contractual agreement elsewhere requiring it to be kept navigable/open/maintained etc.

 

Its a valid question, why should CRT spend on these if it represents poor value for money?

 

It's a valid question, but it looks as if there are very few possibilities which could actually be closed *and* would save CART any significant money -- all the relatively big expensive-to-maintain ones (Rochdale, HNC, K&A, M&B, L&L, Llangollen...) can't realistically be closed for one reason or another, and the bits of the system that could be are either too small or cheap to maintain to have much effect on CARTs finances.

 

Unless anyone has any other suitable (and feasible) candidates for the chop... 😉

Edited March 29, 2023 by IanD

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

30 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 Very good, the Coat Faerie is on his way... 

 

I mean, I am struggling to find three locks on the Ashby Canal unless the one at Moira counts as two, or possibly all three?

I thought they were gonna put two to pass under the motorway?

Edited March 29, 2023 by Goliath