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Charges for 3rd Party events


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10 hours ago, Tonka said:

Could this effect the BCN challenge 


why should it, the challenge is people going boating, no land based event involved

11 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

Any boat club going on a club cruise? Kerching every night.


I don’t see anything in the document about being charged for going boating

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15 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

why should it, the challenge is people going boating, no land based event involved

There is a gathering at the finish point and the event is notified to CRT.  I guess it depends where the finish point is, somewhere like Hawne Basin would possibly be free but somewhere like this year at Factory Junction maybe charges would apply.

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27 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:


why should it, the challenge is people going boating, no land based event involved


I don’t see anything in the document about being charged for going boating


The BCN Challenge requires an event application and approval by CRT. It generally involves a congregation of boats on CRT water (and bankside land) at its conclusion. That gathering may also be subject to a temporary event notice from the Local Authority for licensing purposes.

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3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:


The BCN Challenge requires an event application and approval by CRT. It generally involves a congregation of boats on CRT water (and bankside land) at its conclusion. That gathering may also be subject to a temporary event notice from the Local Authority for licensing purposes.

And reading the info on CRTs website the charge is for processing the application.  Then depending on the event and the location there could be further charges, an event in London has a massive fee, other city locations not quite as high.

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2 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

And reading the info on CRTs website the charge is for processing the application.  Then depending on the event and the location there could be further charges, an event in London has a massive fee, other city locations not quite as high.


Thankfully the BCNS has access to places like Titford Pumphouse, Hawne Basin, Withymoor and Longwood.

 

Hawne basin is possibly not even CRT land.

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14 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:


The BCN Challenge requires an event application and approval by CRT. It generally involves a congregation of boats on CRT water (and bankside land) at its conclusion. That gathering may also be subject to a temporary event notice from the Local Authority for licensing purposes.

How different from the days of campaign rallies and work parties organised without any permission from BW in opposition to their plans to close lesser used parts of the system!

 

Even the BCN Challenge started around 30 years ago as a use-it-or-lose-it protest after BW agreed to a low level crossing of the Wednesbury Old Canal which isolated the remaining section of the Ridgeacre Branch. And how ironic that a few years later the Challenge organisers agreed to a BW/CRT request that the Wedensbury Old Canal be excluded from the event due to a pollution incident, and now the whole section beyond Ryders Green Junction is effectively unnavigable!

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12 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

Any boat club going on a club cruise? Kerching every night.

Do you really think that is the intent or even a circumstance  involving more than 25 people that is likely to occur in real life ?

 

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7 hours ago, MartynG said:

Do you really think that is the intent or even a circumstance  involving more than 25 people that is likely to occur in real life ?

 

No I don't and I certainly hope not. 

It could be argued that it is in scope though. It just depends how desperate the financial situation becomes.

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CRT work relating to an event is almost certainly done in advance; certainly most, if not all, the administration would be in advance. On that basis, payment in advance is understandable.
 

Payment against expected numbers, rather than actual, is also understandable - why should CRT revenue suffer because an event has not been adequately advertised, or the great British has done its thing, as two examples 

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So canal societies that saved canals, restored them and voluntarily contribute significantly to canal upkeep have to find £100 from somewhere for what actual privilege?
I wonder if  CRT realise that many of these attract more potential boaters or canal society members to the canals, and if some don’t happen now then it will cost CRT  much more than the £100.

 

 Really sad. 

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We at Audlem Mill organise the Gathering of Historic Boats at Audlem every July, which attracts lots of visitors to the canal (Education, history etc.).  It has alway been a strictly non-commercial event, with no income whatsoever (and there's nowhere to put stalls anyway).  We pay nominal costs ourselves - signage, leaflet etc. - but the new CRT rules mean we'll have to pay around £225 to £300+ on top.  Looks like that could be the end of an event that started in 2009.  

Edited by Hastings
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You could go stealth. Encrypted chat apps, Dead letter drops hidden in the offside of the canal, numbers radio broadcast from overseas,  bouncing off the ionosphere at dusk, meetings with code word authentification in the park. Lots of historic boats just happen to show up at Audlem at the same time. Nothing to do with you.

I'm not sure at flash mob is exactly possible at <=4mph. Certainly, a fast getaway when the CaRT enforcement turn up is going to be tricky and start shouting over the loud hailers "This is an illegal boat gathering. Disperse immediately, or your Buckby cans will be kicked in to the cut."

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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14 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You could go stealth. Encrypted chat apps, Dead letter drops hidden in the offside of the canal, numbers radio broadcast from overseas,  bouncing off the ionosphere at dusk, meetings with code word authentification in the park. Lots of historic boats just happen to show up at Audlem at the same time. Nothing to do with you.

I'm not sure at flash mob is exactly possible at <=4mph. Certainly, a fast getaway when the CaRT enforcement turn up is going to be tricky and start shouting over the loud hailers "This is an illegal boat gathering. Disperse immediately, or your Buckby cans will be kicked in to the cut."

 

 

^^^ This is IT ^^^

 

A totally different but related approach might be to deny whatever one is organising is an "event".

 

For example Hastings could claim the annual Audlem event is not an event at all, it is a party. After all, we know from our glorious (ex) leader the two things are utterly different and an event is not a party. So by extension a party is therefore not an event and escapes any event charge that might have been levied, had the party been an event. (Am I labouring the point? 🤣 )

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Jen-in-Wellies and MtB both have admirable ideas, but I still have a feeling that CRT might notice 30 historic boats that have coincidentally arrived at the same time, and not be best pleased if we haven't filled in forms and paid!

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10 minutes ago, Hastings said:

Jen-in-Wellies and MtB both have admirable ideas, but I still have a feeling that CRT might notice 30 historic boats that have coincidentally arrived at the same time, and not be best pleased if we haven't filled in forms and paid!

Maybe you should ask C&RT regarding your particular gathering. It does sound like an event due to the public attendance.  But as it also sounds completely non commercial I think that's a special case. Perhaps C&RT would like to attend and contribute to the educational aspect  and possibly you might allow them to seek donations.

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CRT have attended Audlem for many years with the pair Scorpio and Leo operated by the Heritage Working Boats group of volunteers although given the distance to travel we've not been to the last couple.

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2 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

CRT have attended Audlem for many years with the pair Scorpio and Leo operated by the Heritage Working Boats group of volunteers although given the distance to travel we've not been to the last couple.

And a well-known Chief Exec usually attends every year, so CRT certainly know about the event!

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That's not much CRT can do about an impromptu gathering of boats, but I suspect in the Audlem case, as with others, CRT reserve the moorings for the duration of the event and a few days either side. And that does require CRT staff to post notices to that effect, so there is a cost. That said I would have thought encouraging such events is part of CRT's wider remit to promote the waterways to a wider audience, so there is a case that the organisers (who are making nothing from the event) should not be asked to pay.

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I would assume that if moorings are reserved, then you can't deny it's an event. If boats just arrive informally, then it's just a gathering of like minded individuals and not an event - if it were otherwise, my meeting my son on his trip round the ring would be an event too. Numbers don't make any difference, nor do the types of boat. It's the formal organisation that is the key.

 

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The notice does explicitly say 

 

"The charge will be levied on event applications received from 1 June 2023."

 

So the trigger point is apparently the date when the application is received, not the date when the event takes place. So on a literal reading of the notice, you should be able to book events for any time in the future and would not have to pay the charge,  as long as you get your applications in before 1st June. 

Edited by Ronaldo47
typo
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9 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

The notice does explicitly say 

 

"The charge will be levied on event applications received from 1 June 2023."

 

So the trigger point is apparently the date when the application is received, not the date when the event takes place. So on a literal reading of the notice, you should be able to book events for any time in the future and would not have to pay the charge,  as long as you get your applications in before 1st June. 

Brilliant, all events need to apply for at least the next 25 years 🤣

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